I've done lots of LB's lately, like sneaking in my W's e-mail, going to OP's office and delivering a stupid letter through the receptionist (I wouldn't be surprised if she's also part of the bang-bang club- I can't trust anyone these days!!!), like hoping that just because she wore sexy negligee she would give me what she's been denying for months- even before this s**t started. So here I am now back to square one, no: I'm below zero!!!<P>The day before she left for this short trip (after the gay club tour) she was distant… (hang over too), didn't let me get any close to her (that whole conversation Friday night was a LB- she remembered things that were very painful but who am I to help her remember specially when we both has one too many tequilas??? Am I a shrink or something?).<P>The few days that she was gone were actually a relief in some ways… I actually got some sleep & little A (daughter) & I had a great time together. And then somehow I just KNEW that this trip was too important after all, not just a relaxation but a time to make decisions… who was she thinking of? OP? Me? Us (little A & I)? was she trying to figure out how to finally brake up with me? or has she came to the realization that this affair had no future and was W deciding how to brake up with OP?<P>She came back today… at the airport she kissed me lightly, we took our friends to their condo and went to the office (right!!). There we talked some. I couldn't help it so I asked her if she is not in love with this &%$-"$%@#!! OP why she keeps going back (I never asked her why if she told me that after our daughter I'm the person she cares more about is doing it); she says that she doesn't know what it is but that she can't stop!!!.<P>All this time without LBing, I was actually very controlled, had immediately told her about having read her mail & apologized, we later talked about the stupid letter & even made jokes about it, AND I promised to leave her alone, because I know that this must be a hard time for her too. But I MADE ONE REQUEST and it was granted: no lies, I repeated that I am worry about her because she's no longer the straight forward person with whom I fell in love (all those half truths, half lies, the unfulfilled promises to come back, etc.). ALL I ASKED from her is to tell me when she wasn't sleeping at home, if she said "a little while" to be a little while, if she said "I'll come back before little A wakes up to do so. Told her that my request is because each little lie is making me lose respect for her & I don't want to stop loving her. I asked and she said yes. After she made that promise I asked her if she was going out tonight, said "no", I asked again & she said "no, really". She left at 10:30 tonight "for a little while".<P>Because I sneaked in her mail I know that THEY are talking about our separation, W telling that I've been great most of the time but that she doesn't want to hurt me (!!!), that we're best friends but that she doesn't have ANY desire to make love with me (S**T!!!). Remember that we still live under the same roof, sleep in the same bed most of the time when she's here and walk out of the shower naked as if we were a "normal" couple, if such a thing exists.<P>I feel like just call it quits!!! Being with her would make me the happiest man alive, being without her would make me the strongest survivor you'll ever know.<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR>Live and learn

I was just about to sign off for the evening, but saw this... a quick reply because I'm super tired tonight...<P>I am so sorry you are feeling down tonight. Some nights (and days) are just like that. You are in the middle of such a foreign thing to me... I really have NO idea what I'd do if I had to fight a MAN for my H's attention. How could you fight that? If I were you, I'd be thinking, "I'll never have what she wants, I'll never have breasts, I'll always have this blasted penis..." something like that. <P>I just really, really feel for you. Try to relax and find a way to sleep tonight...<P>Okay?<P>~Sheryl<P>------------------<BR>Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans.<P>~John Lennon

She came back at 1:30 AM, says our marriage it's over, wants to end it. Asked her if she's running away or looking forward to meet something... says yes to both but then is not sure. Should I move out? should she move out? Not sure... Told her she can dump me when she's sure, in the meanwhile I'll wait. She says thank you, OK.<P>Also says that it's hard because everytime we talk I bring up "the subject"- talk about a LB!! I guess I've been too selfish to really think about her...<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR>Live and learn

Hey Alex. I know this is so hard. But you know, I really don't think it matters who your wife has fallen for, the pain is the same and so, for a while, are the decisions.<P>And that's what you have to do. Be calm, take care of yourself, and really decide if you want to work for this marriage. I know you have been already, but this is a long, LONG ride and most of us find we have to decide this SEVERAL times.<P>Please hand in there. If you want your marriage then you just keep on with the best Plan A you can do. This could very well be a temporary diversion from a very confused woman. If not, then there's a whole nother set of problems. But, if so, you'll have done the right thing.<P>I'm sending good thoughts your way.<P>Hang in there.<P>Lori

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

I wish I could have the freedom to really vent some of my anger and fellings about the OW sometimes. I can't at home because it would be an LB. I can't here because Arik reads my posts and that would be an LB. In addition to not wanting to LB if I say what I truly think about the OW at this point Arik comes to her defense and tries to make me see that she is a victim in this as well and that just makes me feel bad about me.<BR>I know this is a bit of a vent and it helped but there are so many more feelings of frustration that I can't voice...<BR>AAAARRRRRGGGGG!!!!!!!<BR>GGGGRROOOWWWLLLL!!!!!!!!<P><BR>Nicole

Alex,<BR>Your W is at a point to where she is like a rope in a tug of war game. As much as you want your marriage and family to stay together I am questionable as to whether t will work out for you this way.<P>You need to stop asking any questions, stop putting her on the spot. You know the old saying, "Ask me no Questions and I'll tell you no lies". I would not count on her promise no to lie because she will fear how you will react to some of these answers and to be quite honest, ignorance is bliss. The more you know the more you will have to deal with and the more it will hurt.<P>I would suggest that you try to act as if it is over, love her, pray for her and your family, but you are going to have to distance yourself some from this situation as to not drive yourself crazy.<P>Your W, I am sure loves you but she is catching it from all sides!!! Both wants her to make a final decision, one that she is quite obviously not ready to make. Since, she came home last night saying it was over and then saying that she wasn't sure, that would suggest to me that the OP is putting tremendous stress on her.<P>That will get old, that is why it is impairative that you make HOME a comfortable and relaxing place for her to be.<P>I know how hard it is, I made many of these same mistakes myself, hoping that "THIS TIME" would be the time that he would say what I wanted to hear so desperatly.<P>But trust me when I say that this behavior is incredibly distructive and it will not happen while we are pushing for & seeking it so hard. But it usually happens when we least expect it. Usually when we are ready to give up and throw in the towel and I think that is because we reach a point to where we "really" do stop the insanity.<P>The best advice I can give you Alex is to let go, but I know it is easier said than done, but someway, somehow you have got to do just that. It doesn't mean that you don't love her or want her back; it just means that you have got to accept that it will not change until the time is right.<P>Genie

new_beginning,<P>It's not about the gender but about infedility, have to resolve this first. If our marriage ends we at least can be REAL friends again. And about sexual preferences I would ask again: is gay/lesbian sex a need or a preference?... Like is eating red meat a need or a preference? I want to think that the actual NEEDS are met having sex and eating, unless the preference is so strong that they crave for what they're missing. But again, maybe if the other emotional needs are met, she could settle without, like she did for years when after meeting my W most people said that she was a live, bright, very happy person.<P>Nicole,<P>Why don't you sign up again with a different name?- there is a list of e-mails that you can use to notify those that you want what your new identity is.<P><BR>Alex<P>------------------<BR>Live and learn

ThisAlex,<P>You ask some tough questions and I have no idea what the answers are.<P>I just wanted you to know that I am thinking of you and sorry you are going through all of this.<P>Genie does point out the conflict your wife is experiencing. Know that right now - You can't believe ANYTHING she says. She changes her mind every minute or two, and at each time, she bELIEVES what she is thinking at that moment!<P>This is the crazy time that has us all nutso!!!! <P>Thinking of you....<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Roll Me Away, Genie (now these combinations always sound funny).<P>I know she does change her mind but that she means what she's saying when she's saying it. I'll keep it up.<P>And it's all for tonight... I'm signing off... it's the first time that I actually feel sleepy at only midnight (local time)when she is out... I guess it's a good sign... ZZZzzzzzz.....<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR>Live and learn

Alex,<P>When Genie first posted on your thread two weeks ago, it struck me as the only sane option I hed. It also reminded me of the book suviving an affair.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This feeling of attraction to someone is the way our emotions encourage us to spend time with people who treat us well. (page 35 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>(4) - How do affairs usually end?<BR>A secret second life enables an affair to grow<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Wayward spouses do not necessarily have a history of lying, but their affair turns them into masters of deception. (page 40 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>How to keep a secret second life secret<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Stay out of my private life", "I'm disappointed you don't trust me", "I can't remember", "We're just friends", and "I just need some time away to think things through" (pages 40-44 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Privacy isn't something that improves marriages, It's honesty and openness that improves marriages. (page 41 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Since many affairs are with friends, it's often difficult to distinguish between an affair and an innocent friendship. (page 43 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>An affair is an illusion<BR>With separation comes reality<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Most affairs die a natural death. (page 50 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This feeling of attraction to someone is the way our emotions encourage us to spend time with people who treat us well. (page 35 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>(4) - How do affairs usually end?<BR>A secret second life enables an affair to grow<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Wayward spouses do not necessarily have a history of lying, but their affair turns them into masters of deception. (page 40 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>How to keep a secret second life secret<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Stay out of my private life", "I'm disappointed you don't trust me", "I can't remember", "We're just friends", and "I just need some time away to think things through" (pages 40-44 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Privacy isn't something that improves marriages, It's honesty and openness that improves marriages. (page 41 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Since many affairs are with friends, it's often difficult to distinguish between an affair and an innocent friendship. (page 43 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>An affair is an illusion<BR>With separation comes reality<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Most affairs die a natural death. (page 50 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This feeling of attraction to someone is the way our emotions encourage us to spend time with people who treat us well. (page 35 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>(4) - How do affairs usually end?<BR>A secret second life enables an affair to grow<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Wayward spouses do not necessarily have a history of lying, but their affair turns them into masters of deception. (page 40 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>How to keep a secret second life secret<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Stay out of my private life", "I'm disappointed you don't trust me", "I can't remember", "We're just friends", and "I just need some time away to think things through" (pages 40-44 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Privacy isn't something that improves marriages, It's honesty and openness that improves marriages. (page 41 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Since many affairs are with friends, it's often difficult to distinguish between an affair and an innocent friendship. (page 43 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>An affair is an illusion<BR>With separation comes reality<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Most affairs die a natural death. (page 50 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This feeling of attraction to someone is the way our emotions encourage us to spend time with people who treat us well. (page 35 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>(4) - How do affairs usually end?<BR>A secret second life enables an affair to grow<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Wayward spouses do not necessarily have a history of lying, but their affair turns them into masters of deception. (page 40 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>How to keep a secret second life secret<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Stay out of my private life", "I'm disappointed you don't trust me", "I can't remember", "We're just friends", and "I just need some time away to think things through" (pages 40-44 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Privacy isn't something that improves marriages, It's honesty and openness that improves marriages. (page 41 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Since many affairs are with friends, it's often difficult to distinguish between an affair and an innocent friendship. (page 43 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>An affair is an illusion<BR>With separation comes reality<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Most affairs die a natural death. (page 50 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>While there is no hope for reconciliation when the affair is underway, as soon as the affair is ended, reconciliation is definitely possible. (page 74 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As hard as it is to take sometimes we have to wait for that natural death.<P><B>PLAN-A HER TO DEATH</B><P>it's hard as hell to do but it seams to be working for me.<P>Bill<P>"commit to the Lord what ever you do, and your plans will succeed" Proverbs16:3<P><P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK, Bill, I got it!!!<P>I don’t need to vent today; I’m sending this to the top so others can read your wonderful replies to this post.<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR>Live and learn<p>[This message has been edited by ThisAlex (edited December 17, 1999).]