Well, on the outside, things seem to be going OK (I'm still miserable and devastated inside). No mention of the situation for a couple of weeks...BUT...tomorrow is his X-Mas luncheon, of course, no spouses b/c it's during working hours and the OW will be there!!. Not that he hasn't seen her since this all blew up, but STILL, it's a party atmosphere, drinking, mingling, etc.. I have horrible memories from last year's "luncheon" when I was 12 wks pregnant and after he told me he was "walking out of the office", he disappeared for an hour or so, wouldn't answer cell phone, etc. After a bunch if lies, he finally "admitted" that he had gone to a pub close to the office with the guys from work and since we had an agreement that he would no longer do that, he lied. NOW, after knowing what I know, I feel like he was with her. ANYWAY, without trying to LB, I had to express to him my discontent with this event Friday (he has to go, he's management) and he said,"you have nothing to worry about, I assure you, you have nothing to worry about". It's so sad not to be able to believe in your husband. When you've been "assured" in the past and it turns out it was all BS, how can anything out of his mouth mean anything. <P>I wish I could get into his head and know what goes through his mind when he sees her, what he feels, and it frustrates me immensely that I have to rely on his word when I ask him these same questions. It feels great to hear" NOTHING AT ALL, I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT HER" the second it comes out of his mouth, but the next second I'm thinking to myself, "Of course you're going to say that, you would never tell me differently, how can someone that means nothing to you be the reason that you cause ME so much pain? It just doesn't add up...I'm rambling, I know.<P>A confidant told me yesterday when I was telling her how I felt that I basically can't accept that I will probably NEVER know the real truth about what went on between them and I know she's right. How can I deal with that?<P>When I am in the "mother" mode, I feel positive and feel that I can get through this and put it past me because of my kids and that no "fling" is worth the disruption of m family. But when I am in the "wife" mode, I CAN'T accept the "fling". How can I make these two people and their point of view one in the same? I'm tired of feeling like SYBIL!!<P>Thanks for letting me vent!!

{{{{{{{{{{<B>sadmv</B>}}}}}}}}}},<P>I really feel for you...<P>Try and take a step back...<BR>and a long deep breath...<P>Now chin up... <P>There are going to see so many things out of your control... I understand about company Christmas parties... they s**k... when they exclude spouses!!! <P>This is <B>not</B> in your control...<BR>Keep on venting though... don't hold back your feelings... you have a right to everyone of them!!!!<P>Just don't beat yourself up on it... <BR>Start maybe "treating" yourself instead... <P>I don't know your whole story... sorry... I haven't been following your 20 or so posts... but maybe if you update your profile... others can respond more easily...<P>Try to include stuff like...(at your discretion)...<BR>How long you've known you spouse... before marriage?<BR>Date of marriage?...<BR>When did the affair start? (if known)...<BR>Are you a "betrayed"... "wayward"... or "OP"?...<BR>Was/Is it an emotional affair(EA?).... physical?... or both?...<BR>Any children?... how many?...<BR>Are you?... spouse?... both?... seeing a counselor?<BR>Are you?... spouse?... both?... taking anti-dep medication?<BR>Has anybody filed for separation? or divorce?<BR>Is there any physical abuse?<BR>And any other relevant details...<P>I don't want/mean to pry... but some of this background info makes it easier for others to respond... especially those with similar backgrounds! <P>Prayers to you for a difficult day ahead.. <P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited December 16, 1999).]

sadmv- I have to say that in some ways I disagree with NSR- all that information isn't necessary when dealing with your raw emotions. <BR>I can sympathize where your coming from because I feel the exact same way. He's answered some of my questions and if I asked more he probably would answer them, so truthfully that it hurts alot.<BR>I have felt that how do I ever trust him again and I know that he is trying to reassure you even though he won't be able to give you absolutes. So why don't you suggest to him a couple of things? Like call me during the party occassionally, cut short the time he stays, don't hang on any longer than necessary, ask him to remain in no contact with OW and let you know if ANYTHING happens during this party. Tell him you understand he's trying to reassure you and you need to make some agreements that will make you feel better. Hope all goes well! God Bless<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P>

Jim,<BR>Hi, I realized that if you hadn't read my first post a few weeks ago, you wouldn't be able to really get a feel for the problem when I was done with this post.<P>To make things a little clearer...<P>We've been married 8 years, dated for 5 before that...two children, S is 4 and D is 5 mths old<BR>Couldn't have more of a storybook marriage until this.<BR>I became aware of the OW's existence April, 98 when I discovered #1, a picture of the two having a drink he had purposely taken out of the bunch of pictures taken on a CO. day cruise (this is where they talked for the 1st time), #2, her cell # on his pager, #3 that he had gone to an afternoon long lunch with her a week after the cruise (he admits to a "peck" at the end of this lunch date, #4 thru cell phone detailed billing, I found he had called her several times...when confronted, he denied an affair, said that she was just someone he enjoyed talking to, that she was nice to him, fun, easy going, that he knew he was wrong for what he did, but he had not "crossed the line", that he was not unfaithful to me. He promised to never have any contact with her again. After that, I guess I believed him in my heart, but always had doubts about what had really happened. I never let my guard down, was always a but overbearing, always knowing where he was, checking cell phone voice mail as well as work phone mail almost on a daily basis, was almost convinced that he was in fact behaving and a few mths later became pregnant with my 2nd. Had a baby girl in July and things seemed fine (all the while never letting my guard down). He would have to go on out of town trips (one nighters) every once in a while and to make a long story less long, I discovered she had been on at least 2 of the most recent trips. It was never them 2 alone, there was always a third guy involved, but she was still there nonetheless. He has lied incessantly since the day I found out about her being there, I guess protecting himself from very incriminating facts.<P>Again, he stands firm that there is nothing physical going on, just an avenue of escape from our hum drum life. Have heard "we lost our spark, you are not affectionate, you're a great mom but have forgotten to be a wife at the same time, our life is boring, we love each other but are not "in love" with each other, that since things aren't ideal at home, everything is work, work work and stress, stress, stress, he figures he'll just get away and have some fun" I could go on for hours on all the details but obviously can't. He claims to have NO relationship, NO feelings, NOTHING for this woman (BTW, she's married w/ 2 kids also). Do I believe him? NO, will I ever KNOW the truth? NO. Can I accept that? NO.<P>We are of Latin descent and I think that he in incapable of understanding the meaning of an EA. In his eyes, either you sc$%ed her or you didn't, but if he is saying the truth, then I would classify it as an EA. She is the fun loving, good looking, care free, confident person that probably thinks he is "all that", while I'm the nag, dealing w/ morning sickness, getting fat, telling him what to do and not to do, then later, the one dealing with post partum blues and night feedings, looking like TOTAL CRAP!<P>No counseling, YET.<BR>No medication even though I sometimes think I need them.<BR>Abuse...None whatsoever.<BR>Besides from his dishonesty b/c he is a conflict avoider and this situation, he has been a wonderful husband who helps around the house like crazy (maybe does more than I do), is a spectacular father and all around good person.<P>No seperation or divorce, I did ask him to leave when I first discovered this whole thing, but he then came back.<P>Help!<p>[This message has been edited by sadmv (edited December 16, 1999).]

Hi Sadmv,<P>Trust is not something that is going to be restored overnight. It will take awhile. I agree with Chick. Tell him what he can do that will help to reassure you. He has to understand that you are going to feel insecure, at least for ahwile. Are you sure they are going to be drinking at that luncheon during work hours? Most companies don't allow that due to liability concerns.

sadmv,<P>I'm really sorry for missing your first post(s)... Thank you for filling me in!<BR>I really didn't mean to pry... honest... <P>This lying thing is incredible...<BR>Like the good doctor says in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>An emotional affair can be just as much a threat to marriage as a sexual affair. (page 85 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...and... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Wayward spouses do not necessarily have a history of lying, but their affair turns them into masters of deception. (page 40 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...<P>He is clearly in denial about the situation with the OW... <P>His separating from OW is crucial... maybe if you can sit down with your H sometime (this is hard with "men") and go over the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4110_emndsq.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs Questionnaire</A> at this site... review it first for <B>you</B>! This might let him know you care about help his needs... and that you would like him to help your needs! <P>Are you persuing a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>?<P>I'd say post some more specific questions to the other folks on the MB forum about how to handle this <B>denial</B> of the affair... I never went through it with my W... she just admitted everything? <P>Prayers for some honest communications... <P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

Sidney, Chick's,<P>Unfortunately, him calling me during the party, or asking him to tell me what goes on does not assure me because I know he will not tell me anything that would bring conflict. I can ask him... did you talk to her or did she talk to you and he will say no and in reality he could have had an hour long conversation w/ her. He would never say something that would hurt me or jeopardize him, so therefore, asking him to tell me what goes on in the party doesn't really do anything for me. I don't trust him AT ALL.<BR>Unfortunately, the ONLY thing he can do to reaasure me is NOT GO, and that's not an option. If I have to rely on his words, there is no reassurance there whatsoever.<P>About liquor, there will definitely be liquor there. I guess they are not worried about liability, they are a pretty big company but not an uptight one at all.

You can't control the party. You can use this opportunity to put yourself in the best possible light.<P>You didn't say exactly your demeanor, although you said you tried not to LB, but state your concerns. Good job.<P>Now (since you really can not control things anyway), do a 180 if it kills you. Be bright and cheery and tell H that you thought about it and you KNOW he'll put his wife and family first in his heart during this party. You KNOW he has to go and make the best of it, and you KNOW he will not let you down. Tell him what a great H and father he his and all the ways he shows his commitment in your home.<P>Then plan a special little evening (or few moments if you have the kids with you) to celebrate that the party is over and you made it through as a team.<P>Can't hurt, anyway....<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

dear sadmv,<P> i know exactly where you are coming from. my h has an ea w/a coworker last year. i found a note he wrote @ his "feelings" for her. it totally devastated me. there were functions only for coworkers & i also found those days to be extremely hard. for at least everyday for 6 months asked him if he talked to her. i do trust nothing "physical" happened between them but thats not the point. i am happy to report that he switched jobs @ 6 months ago & i feel like a great weight has been lifted. i still think @ the ea from time to time but knowing he doesn't see her everyday is wonderful. i wish you luck & keep asking, asking, asking those questions that you feel need to be answered.<P>keeping the faith,<P>cassie