Hey guys,

First off I want to say how much I admire everyones will to do their best to keep their marriages together here but my situation just seems to get worse and worse. To recap: My wife admited to having an affair in Feb. Since then I've continuly struggled to keep myself together. We tried MC but wife got very angry at MC and refuses to return. I recently found out from looking at cell phone records that she still talks from time to time with OM. I confronted her asking if she still has contact which she lied and denied that she did and I did not show evidence or speak out. I've been trying to be the best husband I can. Meeting her every need and being there 110%. I've told myself over and over that she is who I want in my life and in my heart but how can she do these things knowing she would jepordize what is already a fragile issue? I honestly feel like giving up cause I no longer feel like I am the man she wants - in fact I am convinced because why would she continue contact with OM? I feel like just telling her it's over and tell her she finally gets what she wants and she does not have to lie or hide things anymore cause I will no longer be around. I am getting close to being 30 and starting to evaluate my life and knowing I have a lot to offer and if my wife does not want to grab a hold of it then I am sure some other decent woman out there would. I don't know I am just getting so confused. This really sucks so bad. I wish I never had to become a satistic. She really does not show any remorse at all for what she put me through. I don't know what to do. I am really close to just giving up. I don't see how plan b could even help cause IMHO that would open up the door more for her to run to OM.

Almost out of ammo and gas from my heart and head.

My heart goes out to you....I know how you feel. I'm in the same situation. Remember darlin', you are the one who has been betrayed and you just need to worry about healing yourself and stop worrying about wife. For the past six months (I cannot believe it has been this long), I have allowed my WS A to drive me insane, questionning on what kind of a person, wife and mother I am. I was to the point where I felt that I did everything to bring on the A and subsequent behavior afterward. I pleaded, threatened, became a docile individual; all to please WS and try to bring him home. You know what...eventually, I was tired of being nice and realized, "Hey, I'm the victim here...if you don't want me, oh well." I know how you feel because I'm feeling the very same way, at the very same time. Today, I did not call WS. This is day three that I haven't. I did see him yesterday during Easter Dinner (which I did for my children). It was difficult, but I got thru it. But, I refuse, refuse to call him, bow down to him, make him feel that he is absolved of his behavior. Funny enough, I have forgiven my H of his initial indiscretion, however, I will not accept (because of my own self-worth and respect) allow the behavior to continue. Keep your faith. It is so very difficult; I still cry at night when I pray. But, remember, you are the most important individual; one who deserves no absolution for being the BS...you no longer need to rehash the past, but more importantly, plan the future. Keep the faith and I bet, no, I can stake my life on it, when she sees that you are on your way to recovery and moving on; she'll have a new respect for you.

karena,

thanks so much for your thoughts and kind words and advise. I keep telling myself that I will rebuild myself and be all I can be which is what I am doing now and if wife does not want to come onboard then I will be in better shape for the next relationship I have in my life. It just makes this so hard cause why should we be the ones trying so hard? I mean I am willing to give my all but when you see no payoffs, it just makes it all the more dishearting. Karen I feel for you too and really anyone going through the same hell I am. All I want is my life back and for my wife to love me and if she really does'nt just to at least have the guts to tell me. I guess this is the price we pay to play the game. It seems the more this gets dragged out, the more that change in a different direction looks good to me. I just want someone to love me the same as I am willing to love them - is that asking for too much? Everything is broken and everything is so complicated. I feel as if I've become unraveled and just need to get out of this all together.

Promiseherthemoon.....

I know, it is disheartening. I don't know about you, but all I feel like doing when my affection and attempts are not reciprocated, is rip his head off and ship it home to his mother. I know, it is a bit violent of a response, but I get so very angry. My counselor states that the game that we play with our WS is a very dangerous one; especially for them. You see, we may lose a touch of our sanity because of the dance, however, once we are finished the waltz, our WS takes the chance that we will not be there once they finish polkaing with the OW/OM. My counselor explained it quite clearly and was very blunt....the WS must be ready and nothing that we do will bring them back. I posted a bit ago and stated that my H just stares at me. He doesn't want me, yet he continues to stare. Imagine that during a big family dinner. I dressed especially for me yesterday (I must admit, I looked rather nice and young, rather than the dowd I had become accostomed to looking at in the mirror). He just stared and me (caught him at least three times). In the past, I would take this as a very positive sign (ooh, he realizes what he misses), but when I would try to touch him or kiss him, he would pull away (what a bummer!). Now, let him stare, now let him wonder. I do not share anything with him; as much as I want to. Let your W wonder about you now....I know the difficult and I share the pain, but all you can do is pray that she (like my loopy husband) sees the light at the end of the tunnel and realizes their mistake. The party ends soon enough and as I mentioned before, they do not come out victorious in their little games.

Yes Karen I agree it is a deadly game for ones heart. It seems like my wife only comes around when she realizes "hey he is finally giving up" and that's when she really finally comes around and that is the only thing that is keeping me hanging on here but it seems at times like it's a too little too late. I mean I really get down about all this. All this B.S. about Fog and uncertainy - it's all there but I feel like I might need to give her an injection and heavy dosage of reality. All she seemed to ever want could really be gone really easy. I never thought I'd give up but the end is near and I feel it. Karen does your husband show any remorse? I don't feel like I deserve better or anything like that cause I think that is a very consumer view but I do think I need to feel something in order to keep my heart in this. She really has been the only girl I've ever loved or wanted and this has been such a kick in the [censored] and a stab in the heart. I always thought I was her everything.

" I feel like just telling her it's over and tell her she finally gets what she wants and she does not have to lie or hide things anymore cause I will no longer be around."

Once she sees that you are no longer going to be there to pick up the pieces if her relationship with the OM fails it will make her start looking at you differently and not some piece of old furniture. Women do not respect men who allow themselves to be treated like crap.

tomaz - I know what your saying but would'nt you say it's a pretty dumb game to have to threaten to completely take yourself away from a person for them to start treating you good? That's a game I don't want to be a part of and makes no sense. I've been trying to plan A my [censored] off but it's not working and I feel as if I am kidding myself to continue. When you give and give and don't get back then efforts don't pay off - hearts disolve and it comes to the end. If a woman does not a value a man to be allowed to be treated like crap then why is my wife doing that in the first place?

I agree that you do deserve better than. At least three major points must be utilized to maintain recovery. The first is sincere remorse from the wayward spouse. Your wife refuses to do this. Second there must be No Contact with OM which you wife refuses to do and complete and total honesty from the both of you which your wife refuses to do. You should have immediately informed her that you knew she was not telling the truth and why.

Look you do not want to be the doorprize. I would sit down and tell your wife that her actions and lying are unacceptable and that you will live a life with or without her. Clearly she feels that you are a safety net and does not have to be truthful to you, shows no remorse and maintains contact with the OM. She clearly at this point does not respect you so why do you feel she will love someone who she does not respect and admire?
I think you need to respect and admire yourself.
I would contact an attorney to understand your legal rights and obligations. I would set down and tell her this is your future if she wishes to be a part of it well then it is up to her. I do not know why you would wish to stay with someone who is not remorseful and dishonest. This attitude would indicate that this behavior would continue in the future with the same person or someone else. In short, I agree with you that you deserve much better and you don't need to settle. I wish you luck.

Promiseherthemoon.....

My husband hardly shows any remourse. In the beginning, he was an absolutely [censored]...telling me to get over it..."I cheated, okay, now get over it!" I would bawl my eyes out, thinking, wow, I married this moron...how inconsiderate." However, as time wanes, he no longer says "Get over it", but rather, he tries to put it behind him. Funny enough, two weeks ago, while we were having a few drinks discussing, heavens knows what, we both consumed a bit too much alcohol. While nothing physical resulted from the over consumption, a very heartfelt "I'm so sorry for doing this to you, to us and to our family...I'm so very, very sorry." Of course, does he remember uttering those words to me. He held my hand while we emerged from the restaurant, he held me and told me very pretty things. I felt that everything was going to be alright at that point. Guess what, I didn't hear from him the next day or well into that Monday. I agree...the "FOG" thing is B.S., but it is true. I've seen it lift at least 20 times. It is a veil, but it needs to dissipate, not lift, in order for it to work. Frustration is paramount when trying to work it out. I bought Divorce Busters...have you read it...how cute. Even though I am going thru hell, I thought it was so utterly true, helpful and insightful.....Keep me posted.

WOW! I am in the same boat you are in! Except it is my husband who had the affair! I felt like you were writing what I am feeling? Do you feel that this other man robbed you of your identity and your sexual identity as well?
My husband gave her all my fantasies to her. All the things I wished for he gave and did them to her! And I just don't mean sexual. Little things that I loved to do! All my favorite songs I cannot play because I am paranoid that he thinks of her.
I love my husband and could not ever dream of doing this to him. We were going through major difficulties in our marriage before this happened. But never thought he would go to the extreme he did! I thought he loved me enough to not do it! I trusted him!
Is she willing to work it out? I can't give you much advice because I am going through this fresh right now! My emotions are conflicting against each other! I am angry one moment and balling my eyes the next! I broke down the other day at the store because I heard a song that reminded me of my husband and at the same time I saw a couple shopping for garden stuff! I got jealous?
Speaking of jealous, are you jealous of him? I am extremely jealous of my husbands lover! Thank God we live far away from her!
My question is what do you want to do? You are the one who should call the shots not her! Is she sorry? Does she take you seriously? Are you seeing a therapist of sorts? This is going to be one long journey and dealing with pain is a part of the healing! Take as it is and don't run from the pain. TRUST ME! By running, it will make matters worse! I know you probably cannot see your self with anyone besides her right now. But if you do move on, take it one day at a time and make sure you heal because this will carry onto an new relationship that you might get into. But maybe this will work it out! I hope your wife is sincere enough to recongnize your feelings?
DO what you think is right! Don't be afraid to make your choice!

Not sure if what I have to say will be taken well but I do offer a different perspective on this. I was the WS who after my husband offered reconcilliation(even AFTER finding out I was pregnant and didn't know who's child) vacillated between him and the OM for too long. I didn't have much physical contact with OM in the latter few months of the affair but did talk on phone more. I was completely and totally in the "fog" and was really manipulated I feel. It seemed to me like when I didn't talk to OM I would find it easier to see myself working things out with my husband. Then.. bam..a phone call... someone telling me everything I wanted to hear... sweet nothings whispered... romance... all drawing me into the spell and web of deceit. I can see in hindsight that I was so incredibly stupid that I didn't end my affair and see my husband for the man that he is. Now it appears that it is too late for us. I did end my affair and committed completely to my husband and God in early January, but finding out I had crossed the "line in the sand" and had seen OM over Thanksgiving was the final straw and we've been seperated ever since.
Looking back.. and sorry so wordy.. but I wish Tim would've gone through with a plan b on me. I think this would've made me wake up quicker and realize that I was really going to lose him. I know if my heart even when I was thinking of leaving that I really couldn't imagine my life without him in it. Now that unfortunately seems to be my reality. Life without the love of my life, my Tim.
I would say don't give up yet if you really love her and think that there is theh slightest of chance for you guys to restore your marriage. But I would say, let her see what life would be like without you, if that is what she is willing to risk for the sake of a fantasy love. Go NC with her, move out, whatever it takes to shake her up.
I know you said that you'd think it would push her to OM, but in reality, even if it did for a short period of time, the fantasy of the OM would wear off and she would probably wake up and realize what she was losing in you!
Patty

Plan A is meant to be carried out for a few weeeks not for many months. It is used only to show the WS that if given a chance the marriage can be fixed. If there is no positive response Plan B should have been implemented. Most marriage counsellors will tell you that there is no chance of rebuilding the marriage as long as the spouse is involved in an affair. Under these conditions you can plan A your [censored] off and it still will make you be perceived by your wife as less perfect than the OM. Unless she sees consequences to her inappropriate behaviour there is no incentive for her to stop this behaviour. That is human nature. If you feel that you can forgive her and want to save the marriage than you need to stop all contact with her and show that you are not willing to continue to be part of her drama. She needs to see that you are ready to move on without her. It will either bring her to her senses in which case your marriage will be saved or you will get divorced and get out of this toxic situation. Instead of feeling fustrated at the lack of progress you need to understand that you have a lot of power. If she does not come up to your standards you have the power to dissolve this marriage and move on. That is the language your wife is going to understand.

<small>[ April 21, 2003, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: tomaz ]</small>