The only one who knows when it's time to throw in the towel, is you. For me or any other counselor or coach to tell you that it's over and that there is no hope (friend or family member either for that matter) is exceptionally inappropriate and unethical.
Having said that, I'll tell you what Harley said the other day on the radio and that I agree with wholeheartedly. When there is infidelity (and this can apply to a certain degree to neglect and control as well, but the time frame is longer) first you do Plan A... as I outlined it on ALS's thread at GQII... I'll get it for you and post it here too... 3months tops for women, six for men (infidelity time frame).
Then you do Plan B. Up to two years. Circumstances can make it shorter, and rarely but sometimes longer...
THEN you think about divorce.
So it's a process. The thing is... if you can't do Plan B because of the financial stuff, how can you separate and divorce? It all sounds so easy, cut and dried... (divorce that is) .... but it's not. It takes months, sometimes years... and during that time all sorts of horrible financial manueverings are used to hurt the other person.
If you file for D there's no guarantee that you won't be left out in the financial cold for as long or longer than you would if you did Plan B.
So then, is there anyone you could take the kids and stay with? Parents? In laws? (do they know?? they should!) other friends or family? Really think about it.
How long before the A ends? Well I'll get shot for this from those in the "you can't do anything to stop it" camp, but Willard Harely says, and my education, observation and experience backs it up..... a lot of that answer depends on you, and how long you're willing to put up with it before you start rocking the boat.
Plan A is not about making the WS feel good, it's about ending the affair. There are things you need to do that are going to make them pretty darn unhappy, it's part of the process.
And yes... SYMC is me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> C - Penny
~~~~Here's the stuff I posted to ALS:
Can I comment?
Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.
Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."
Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.
So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.
First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.
Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.
Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.
ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)
Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.
(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)
Now, Plan B IS all about you, the betrayed partner. It's about getting you out of and away from a situation that is horribly painful and, let's face it, degrading. Plan B is taking the stance that enough is enough and that although you want the marriage to succeed you will no longer be part of a triangle. And that you care enough about the marriage to know that you need to protect the love you still have for your partner.
Now, nowhere in any of that is the idea that the faithful partner needs to make life easy and comfy for the straying spouse!! No need to bend over backwards to be a doormat. Certainly no need to be afraid to trigger guilt!! Good god!! They should feel guilty!!!
So, do I think that a PBL should go to the affair partner? You bet I do!!! Do I think the world should be told that the spouse is being unfaithful? Yes!! And the sooner the better!!Can I insist that anyone does those things? Mmmmmm.... that would rather be a demand wouldn't it?
So you see, if one truly believes the Willard Harley ideals of respect and elimination of control, then one would have to uphold them to the best of their ability in all aspects of their life. I can't tell my clients or mentees that they must do things my way because I know best, and then turn around and tell then they must be respectful of and not be demanding of their partners!!! LOL Somehow, it doesn't wash...
What I can do is speak what I know to be true about how affairs are best ended. What has been shown over and over again to work. And I can explain why I believe those things to be true based on what I know about human behavior and how we react from my (hmmmmm how old am I???) 18 or 20 some years of experience, study, and educational forays.
After that, everyone gets to make their own decisions. I might not agree, and I usually say so, (don't I, ALS ) but I fully support each individual's right to make choices about their lives.
So then, I don't know if that helps at all, but I feel better....
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whippit - You're right, you do have to take a good hard look at yourself and how the things you did that were either hurtful or neglectful contributed to the breakdown in the marriage.
What I see too often though is that the faithful partner blames him or herself for the affair (as opposed to taking responsibility for their part but recognizing that no matter what they did or didn't do, there is NO excuse for infidelity) and then they go down this path of thinking/acting as if they must become somehow perfect in their Plan A efforts.
What I also really wanted to point out is that although eliminating LBers and meeting needs is a good thing to do, Plan A is not just about making yourself attractive. It's much much more than that, because the goal of Plan A is not to make the cheating spouse feel good, it's to end the affair.
So if you begin with the position that Plan A is about making the straying partner happy at home, and that you do that by working on yourself, then you by necessity lose much of what should be done in Plan A. It becomes a flat and ineffective tool. (because part of the phenomena of infidelity is that the WS won't notice or will blow off the good changes the mate is making due to the addictive process)
But if you begin with the premise that Plan A is a strategy to END THE AFFAIR, then meeting needs and eliminating LBers (changing your habits,"working on you") becomes a small, albeit essential, part of the whole picture. A picture which includes doing some things which will make the unfaithful spouse very unhappy, angry even. Like confronting and exposing.
You have to remember that affairs are addictions, and they affect the mind in the same way other addictions do. When someone attempts to take away the source of the addiction.. be it alcohol, drugs, or an affair partner.... the addict is going to react with all kinds of anger and hateful words. You become in effect the enemy. They will say they hate you, that they'll NEVER want to be in any relationship with you again, that you are destroying their lives, etc. etc. etc......
So you have to keep in mind that it's the addiciton talking, and that it's most often a necessary step. Once the affair is ended and you naviagate through withdrawal and begin recovery the story changes. Drastically. (Rent the movie 28 days with Sandra Bullock)
I've been the WS. I've been the BS.. although in a different way than many. AND I've been around the addiction and recovery commumnity for many many years. The dynamics are identical.
Help at all??
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