Before I begin my story let me say that I have been lurking around this site since about February and the support and encouragement that I have seen on these boards has helped me through some days I've even though I haven't really posted yet.

Last year around the summer my wife began to go out more often to the bars with her girlfriends that she had met at work. This activity increased through the fall and into the winter. During these times I had noticed a change in the way my wife was acting. I had approached her several times asking whether or not she had cheated on me. Her answer was always no.

Early December, my wife had begun to act very depressed. One night during an argument she confessed to me that she had been smoking pot and had tried cocaine a few times. Again I asked if there had been and infidelity; again the answer was no. She also said that she hadn't touched any drugs in several weeks.

From about mid-December to early February, my wife and I "tried" to fix our marriage. I honestly don't consider that it was a valid attempt because no professional counselling was involved. My wife also constantly stated how unhappy she was and had been since about the time that our daughter was born. I am convinced to this day that my wife is suffering from depression yet she refuses to admit to it and seek help. My wife also told me that she wasn't "in love" with me and at about mid-February told me that it wasn't going to work because she had tried and didn't have any "in-love" feelings towards me.

From about mid February till Mid-March I began to focus on meeting her emotional needs. One day in mid March we were talking and she admitted to a one night stand with one of her girlfriends. At first I was in shock and didn't really have a reaction, but later on in the night I asked that she leave for a few days. What hurt me probably even more than the one night stand was the fact that she had lied about it for several months and made me think that everything was my fault. The day after she left I asked that she come back home but she didn't want to. After a couple of weeks of staying with her grandma she got her own place and is still there now.

At the moment my wife wants to get a legal separation. She is smoking pot again, is bulemic(sp?), and is severely depressed. She will call sometimes and talk about how she screwed everything up and that I should have somebody better but other times when I see her, she will act very closed off. I know that she is miserable now but will still not get any help for herself. She uses the pot and drinks so she doesn't have to face the pain of reality.

I still love her but at this point and with the way she is acting, I don't think that I could ever trust her again. The one thing that keeps me going is my daughter. I am at the point now where I am just trying to be the best father possible for her. The pain that I feel is still very fresh and my feelings go from fear to depression to anger and back again.

I should also mention that my wife nows thinks that she may be gay. I don't buy into this because my wife still tells me that she is attracted to me. Her actions really don't match her words as well. Many times when I see or talk to her she asks that I hold her and talks about how much she misses me and our little girl, but other times will be totally closed off. The best way to describe it is that she is very confused. I really believe that depression has been a big factor in the situation but my wife will not seek help. She has a history of depression from her early teen years and while she was pregnant she always talked about how scared she was to get post partum.

Anyone with some encouraging words, advise or support would be very helpful. I am also asking for prayers for my situation. I am really trying to keep hope but I have a lot of days where I just feel like giving up.

EDIT: I posted for the first time a couple of months ago before I found out about the affair. There is a bit more detail in the previous posts regarding the early situation.

<small>[ May 16, 2003, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: TryingToKeepHope ]</small>

Just to add a bit to my story....I spoke to my wife tonight for a bit. She told me that she had thought that I had cheated on her last fall but didn't ask me if I had or not. I asked if this had any effect on her choice to cheat on me and she said no. I told her in response that I may have faults but unfathfulness is not one of them.......I am and always have been faithful...even to this day.

This last year has been the worst in my life. I would never have believed that any of this could have happened. The pain is just unbearable most days. Please help.

Trying...

I'm so sorry for what's brought you here. It sounds like life has been a sureal hell for you but I can't stress enough that you are definitely in the right place.

At the risk of trying to psycho analyze your WW's behavior, sometimes we do things that are out of character for us because it sucks soooo bad to be yourself at that moment. But first thing's first...

Where is your little girl in all of this? I would be (and I'm sure that you are) very concerned with your WW's substance abuse and drastic lifestyle change having a traumatic affect on her! Have you addressed this with her? A counselor? Your church? Maybe even an attorney?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Lady:
<strong>
Where is your little girl in all of this? I would be (and I'm sure that you are) very concerned with your WW's substance abuse and drastic lifestyle change having a traumatic affect on her! Have you addressed this with her? A counselor? Your church? Maybe even an attorney?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you for the response Lady.

My daughter has remained with me for the almost the entire time. She spent the night at my wife's apartment last Saturday night for Mother's Day. Before I allowed our daughter to stay ther though I had to see the apartment, which is actually quite nice. It is the second story of a farm house where the owners, an older couple, live downstairs. Other than that, I have been present for all other visits between my wife and our daughter. BTW, Mother's Day made my wife very depressed because she realizes that she has not been taking care of her motherly responsibilities for quite a while. I overheard her say to my daughter "Mommy sure doesn't deserve any medals for Mother's Day this year. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> "

I have spoken to my pastor at our church but what I really need to do is to get myself a good Christian counsellor that is not too expensive. As far as talking to an attorney, I haven't really done that yet. My wife has said that she will not be fighting for custody of our daughter.

This whole situation is very depressing because it is hard to see a person that you love so much on a downward spiral like this <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . I feel so helpless. I am also aware that I have been committing some LB's in the situation which I know are not helping. Some times the hurt and pain just take over and I LB. It's something that I really need to work on.

I am still committed to making our marriage work, but I know that I can not do it on my own, my wife needs to want it too. But there is also a part of me that is afraid to try again in case this happens again in the future.

Unfortunately there isn't much you can do to make her change back to a healthier state, except be her best friend and recomend she seek professional counseling to deal with her depression and substance abuse problems.

Remember that even if she tells you she wants to come back, it is necessary to set non-negotiable boundaries before you even contemplate in allowing her to return, such as:

1.No more going out to bars with her GF's from work. Alcohol, drugs, and sex are, very often, a lethal combination that have not only destroyed marriages but lives as well. And in your W's case it already has taken its toll on her and your marriage. You need to sit down and calmly ask her if she truly beleives she can meet this condition because if she isn't absolutely and positively sure that she can, then it may be best that the two of you remain separated until she is able to do so. False recoveries are poison to marital rebuilding.

2.Counseling with a professional to see if she truly is suffering from depression and can help her overcome it with treatment. She needs to become a healthy person first before she can be a partner in marriage.

Without those two boundaries or pre-conditions, your marriage is still on death row.

I must say your love for your W touches my heart. So many people come to MB soooo angry... I know I did.

Has your W ever told you what she thinks may be the reason for her lifestyle changes? Is it possible that she's experimenting rather than actually changing?

If she has a childhood history of abuse, her behavior may be a bad habit or she could be severely depressed.

Does she ever talk about it?

I'm sorry to hear that Mother's Day was so depressing. But I'm glad it was a time of reflection about what motherhood really means for her. Who knows, maybe that's a window of opportunity for her to see a little hope for herself and your family.

TooMuchCoffeeMan,

As usual, you're brilliant! Sometimes as the hopless romantic I am, wanting a happy ending so badly, I forget to include good common sense!

Trying,

He's right. You can't make her change, but I would certainly tell her that you love her and that when she's ready to talk about being a family again, you'll be there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My wife also told me that she wasn't "in love" with me </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This right here drives me nuts! I hear so much of this garbage it's unreal! Being "in love" is not something we can have all the time. I'm not even in love with my kids all the time. I do what I do for them because THEY ARE MINE.

In other words it's about committment, not being in love. "In love is the reward you get for sticking it out even when you don't feel that way."

Hit her with that and see what she says! My H was speechless. Some people think they have to feel that way about each other all the time. You'd be suprised how much pressure can be removed and how many doors can be opened when they realize it's OK to not even LIKE your SP very much at times.

BTW,

I did read your post on your full story and I will say this. Please understand that what I;m about to say in no way excuses your W for her behavior, but it may shed some light on something.

My H abandoned me emotionally with my first pregnancy and had an A during my third. It is soooo difficult to allow yourself feelings for someone you think may not bere there for you when things get really bad. I mean it was just a baby. NINE MONTHS! What happens if I get cancer? or when one of our parents dies? Or what if something happens to one of the kids?I hear puberty alone is a hairpulling experience for a lot of parents! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Life happens! I believe that in every relationship, there will be times when one will have to be stronger than the other if it's going to survive. Maybe her feelings of betrayal from that experience have sparked her behavior. I hop that for the sake of your M she figures that out and gets some help. Just because she is hurt doesn't excuse her lack of committment.

Just a thought.

Thanks for the responses.

My wife did have a history of emotional abuse when she was growing up and also does have a history of depression. Because of her childhood, whenever she has problems that arise, she just feels the need to run. My wife and I have been together since she was 15 and I was 17 so we know each other very well.

Thanks you Lady for reading my older post for some history. I totally understand what I did to my wife when I had my anxiety problem. I went through months and months of blaming myself for everything that transpired in the last year. I have also talked to my wife about what had happened and apologized, but she never wanted to talk about it. I don't know if it was because it still hurt her or because she felt guilty about the one night stand she had (she hadn't told me about it yet).

I am trying to be my wife's friend, but it is still very difficult for me to see or talk to her a lot of the time. The pain is just too bad.

My wife has brought up the subject of moving home again, but not working on the marriage. I told her that before that happens, I would like to see her get some help for her depression and marijuana use, and be committed to working on the marriage. I don't know if that was a good resonse that I had but I can't go back to having her here and leaving again all of the time. I also need to think about what is best for my daughter.

Throughout all of this I have tried to be very careful when making decisions because I want to be sure that my decisions aren't based upon my emotions. I am trying to be patient, but sometimes it just seems like it would be easier to give up so the pain will go away. But I fear that if I do give up, the marriage would have been restored and better than ever if I just would have stuck it out a little longer. And my daughter would have her mommy back.

Trying,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have also talked to my wife about what had happened and apologized, but she never wanted to talk about it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I grew up witness to my parents extremely turbulent and violent M. I was never comfortable expressing anger or disappointment because I never had a healthy example of how to do so. It seemed nothing good ever came from discussions about feelings.

I would think that this is still pretty fresh in her mind since most victims of emotional or physical abuse have pretty serious abandonment issues. It may very well be part of the foundation for her behavior. As far as getting her to talk about it... the next time you talk just ASK her how that period in your M made her feel. ASK her if she still gets angry with you. ASK her if it still hurts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told her that before that happens, I would like to see her get some help for her depression and marijuana use, and be committed to working on the marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GOOD FOR YOU!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But I fear that if I do give up, the marriage would have been restored and better than ever if I just would have stuck it out a little longer. And my daughter would have her mommy back.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Boy! Your username says it all, doesn't it?
I can't tell you how touching it is to see that much hope. Try to look at it this way. If you continue to try until you can't try anythiing else, and your M recovers, your D will have her Mommy back. If you try everything and it doesn't, then your D has a shining example of committment to someone you love. What a beautiful legacy, huh?

Why not consider counseling with a marriage saving oriented professional like Steve Harley or his sister Dr Jennifer Harley Chalmers (co-author of 'Surviving An Affair')?

Update: My wife's Grandmother passed away on Wednesday <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . My mother-in-law called Wednesday afternoon to tell me and ask if I could go tell my wife about it. I was hesitant at first but I did end up doing it. I am glad that I did because I did not want my wife to be alone when she found out because of the depressed state that she has been in. My wife was very close with her Grandmother and before my Grandmother passed away she had told my wife that she was disappointed with how she was acting. It is really hitting my wife hard.

Just came back from picking my wife up and dropping her off at her parents for the wake today. It hurts so bad to see my wife because I still love her. I know that people say that it gets easier with time but it hasn't seemed like that for me so far.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong>Why not consider counseling with a marriage saving oriented professional like Steve Harley or his sister Dr Jennifer Harley Chalmers (co-author of 'Surviving An Affair')?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have considered it and would like to but can't at the moment due to finances. $500 a month for daycare really makes a difference.

Trying,

I'm so sorry to hear about your W's grandmother. Sometimes God sends us trials at times when we need to realize just how precious life and our relationships are. Don't be suprised if you catch her "thinking".

Have you thought about purchasing the book? You may even want to call into Marriage Talk Radio this Monday afternoon to talk to one of the Harleys. They can give a pretty good chunk of direction in a short amount of time.

I think that I am going to go and file for divorce soon. My wife just seems to be digging herself deeper into a hole with her drug use and actions. She even showed up at the church after her Grandmother's funeral high. I have never talked to a person who is so out of touch with reality than her. I also think that she has her girlfriend staying with her now. Things are just so hard and it seems like she will never see the light or snap out of the "fog". Is it possible that some people live the rest of their lives in a "fog" or do all WS's eventually snap out of it? Any advice or support would be very helpful.

Trying,

Haven't heard from you in awhile and was wondering how you, your W and D are doing. Keep us posted.

Dear TryingToKeepHope:

I too have survived a physical, emotional & psychological abusive childhood at the hands of my parents. As a result I suffer from depression. If it weren't for my grandparents who took care of me most of the time, I would committed suicide as a child.

When my grandad and other family members died when I was eighteen, I had an emotional breakdown. I too began down the road of bulimia, prescription drugs, alcohol. Somehow I was able to stop myself before it got too late. In the process I tried to push everyone away to protect them from how I was feeling. I hit bottom when I had a one night stand with someone I met at a biker bar. It was in the middle of this act that I realized how low I had sunk and what a dangerous situation I put myself in. I stopped. Fortunately, the man didn't react violently and left. I could've very well gotten myself killed. It took a total of 3 years until I could feel like "myself" again. That's when I met my H.

My reason for telling you this is that I see my other self in your W. Maybe she needs to hit bottom before she realizes exactly what is going on. Thank God she had a grandmother who could tell her like it is. Mine was the same way.

I know it's rough on you. But, don't let her be alone at this time in her life despite her attempts to push you away. Let her know you are there for her, if only from a distance. When she comes around finally, she will know you love her and appreciate it.

Strength, strength, strength...

Thank you for the responses.

I have talked to my wife a couple of times this week. She claims that she is no longer doing drugs. She also claims that she has not fooled around or begun a relationship with anyone else. I have a very hard time believing either story.

I also saw my wife last night for a couple of hours. She wanted to see our daughter so I brought her over. I find it very hard to be around her, especially at her apartment because I am afraid of what I may find there and the pain of seeing my wife is still so fresh.

I posted a few days ago that I thought I was going to file for divorce soon. As for now I will hold off. I am trying to be patient with the situation but am feeling very exhausted emotionally. I also try to convey the message to my wife that myself and her family are here to help her but she is convinced that everyone hates her and is angry at her.

A couple of months ago I had purchased "Surviving the Affair" by the Harley's and left it for my wife to take a look at. She has never opened the book to my knowledge so I asked for it back last night. My wife will be dropping it off at my house on Sunday so I am going to start reading the book before making any decisions.

Is there any hope of my wife coming back out of the "fog"? Is there anything that I can do to help her to emerge from it? I think at this point that my wife thinks that she is gay.

I have just been feeling really discouraged the last few days, especially when I think that my wife may still be fooling around. At this point I have a hard time seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. Prayers and encouragement to persevere would be helpful. Thanks.