Ive been married to my wife for 20 years this aug just recently i was going to boyscouts order of the arrow with 2 of my 3 sons we went to the wrong camp by misstake and instesd of going all the way back past the house and driving another 2 hours to get to the right 1 we decided to go home and leave in the morning sat i was cooking dinner when the phone rang i answered and a man asked if my mom was there i said my mom doesnt live here and he said i must have dialed the wrong number i recognized the voice but just blew it of thinking he was tring to call his godsons house by misstake then a few months later my wife got up early and left while i was sleeping she was gone 2 and a half hours that i know of when she returned i aske her where she had been and she said yard saling but my youngest son asked her if she had been to nicks house and she said no she gathered some things and went to run an errand when she left my youngest son and 15 year old said she smelled like nicks house i smelled it to its a smell of wood used in the house my youngest son asked me why she was lying well that put up a red flag the next sat she snuck out of the house again early in the morning i tried to call her on her mobile but got no answer i accsesed her voice mail and nick left her a message the bestwestern by quicktrip room 334 when she returned home i asked her to explain about the bestwestern room 334 she said she didnt know what i was talking about i called her voice mail and the message was still there she listened to it erased it and told me it wasnt for her i talked to nick the next day and he said he was sorry if it had caused a problem but the message wasnt for her it was for another lady and he dialed the wrong number hes also married so i said i can only asume your cheating on your wife and he said thats none of my buissness i said it is if its my wife your cheating with well i was really upset and pack somethings and left when i got to where i was going i was seriously thinking about suicide i had let my wife a letter explaing the call the sneaking out and the voice mail message i also mention the fact that i didnt think it was the first time she had cheated that i knew she had an affair with ed a guy she worked with twice and then she broke it off and wanted to renew our vows in the church for our 10th anniversary we had been married by a judge the first time the nite before the church wedding she broke down crying but wouldnt tell me why at that point i forgave her and remarried her i thought she got it out of her system and it wouldnt happen again well my oldest son opened the note he was scared i might do something and called my best freind he talked me into coming back home my wife that evening would say anything we went to bed and she turned away i started cring again and she turned and said whats wrong i told her i just wanted her to hold me and tell me everything was going to be alright she held me and said she wanted everything to be alright she said she haddent done anything and i was the 1 she chose in the begining and i was the 1 she wanted to spend the rest of her life with to sit out on the porh with to spoil our grandchildren with that she couldnt imagine her life without me we cried talked and made love but the next day she withdrew from me she left for work without a goodbye kiss so i got nosy again got on the internet and downloaded her mobile phone record well i had some errands to run and things werent going well and the the brakes went out in my car and almost cased a wreck when she got home i started to tell her of my day and she didnt seem to care i said heck with it you dont care then she said yes i do tell me well i stormed up the stairs then chaged my mind i closed the door came back down and asked her why she was lying and how she could come home look me in the eye and say i love you after being with nick she said she wast i said why did he leave you that message she said it wasnt for her i said then why did you call him thur nite fri nite and the sat morn he left you the message she said what are you talking about i didnt so i asked her again and again she denied it then i handed her the print out of her incoming and outgoing phone records and told her if she didnt want me to go to the lawyer and if she loved me she would come clean about everything and we would try to work things out she amitted to having been with nick that it was a half dosen times at hotels she said i was right about ed at our ten year remarrige she said she loves me and i asked her what he was giving her or doing that i was not she said it wasnt the sex that was about the same and she said im a wonderfull husband i dont abuse her in any way sha said it was just a stupid misstake a time of selfdistruction then she said she had on the third time with him asked herself what the hell am i doing but she continued with the affair she says she want to work it out and that the sat i got the message was the last time she has seen him or talked to him that she has ended the affair because she didnt want to lose me but i dont know if i can believe her i had threatened to tell his wife and she said she doesnt want me to tell her she also said she doesnt want to move but i dont think i can stay here he lives just down the street im 42 shes 40

billibob, glad you have come to MB,
i'm very sorry you are in such pain. Finding out something like this is a nightmare, <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> and i too was pretty desperate on dday. The emotions can be very scary and hard to cope with.

Your wife says she wants to be with you, she made a mistake. It is hard to know what the truth is after so many lies, but if she really wants the marriage to recover, she has to be willing to end all contact with OM. This may indeed involve moving away.

Some people may say tell the other man's wife, and i think i would. One, i think she has a right to know, and also when the secrecy around the affair is around, it is easier for your wife to contact him. Some affairs are very hard to end.

But, if you are both committed to the marriage, you can get through this. It is tough and counseling has really helped me and my H. I am 5 months on from dday, and feel alot better. I remember the early days as a blur of pain and misery.

If you are feeling really low, find someone to talk to as soon as you can. You may need anti-depressants. Please keep posting and take care, ad

billibob, Boy can I feel your pain. I too still cry but not as much as that first two months. My H cheated on me after 25 years of marriage this site has helped me alot I have only been posting for about a week or so but just reading and being able to express my feeling with out being told not to talk about it any more you sound like a broken record is nice. I am trying to learn to forgive it is hard and I too believe that you should let the other spouse know what was or is going on she needs to know. The OW told her H before my H told me and I think it forced him to tell me because her husband was going to the OW told me she wondered if my H was ever going to tell me of course my H says that is not true that he told me because the guilt was more than he could stand and that at the time he was confussed and didn't really know what he wanted. I can see how a new life with some one else could sound exciting but the reality of it all is diffrent. I can understand the excitment of thinking you are falling in love but I still do not understand unfaithfulness no matter what. Hang in there it has only been five months since D-day for me and I can finally go a whole day with out crying the pain is still there and I do not trust but that too will come with time I'm sure. Go to my post it is under "I need a friend" write me and tell me what you think of my situation. Hang in there and God bless you. I have a new respect for faithful husbands I think they are getting harder to find!!!!

billibob: Call his wife and tell her. You would want to know if you were in her shoes. Then, click on the link in my signature line. You CAN recover and have a better marriage and trust her again, if you do it different this time. It will take time and effort, but it can be done. Start with that phone call.

billibob, thanks for visiting my post. I can relate so much to what you are going through it sounds alot like my situation. MY H to thinks that if we don't talk about what happened then all is well I don't feel the same way. I too do not have alot besides work going on and sometimes my H works the late shift that leaves me home alone to think all the time about his A. I to can not stand the thought of them together I told him what we had together was ours and he had not right to just give it away I feel like when he had sex with her he gave away apart of me and I did not ask for that. It has been five months and the pain is less but many nights I still cry myself to sleep he doesn't understand sometimes he will hold me and let me cry and that is nice but I need him to talk to me and he just doesn't. I know this is not advise but I feel sometimes it helps so much just to know you are not alone that is what this site has done for me I feel like I am in group thearopy and no one judges my pain or says its time to be done crying I hope you will find the same peace here that I have keep writing your feelings out it helps so much.

Billibob, I agree with John39 and because it's what Dr Harley recommends to help bring reality into the fantasy world of the affair.

If you don't tell the OM's wife, then he'll continue to feel safe in persuing your wife because his wife will still be in the dark. But if his wife is made aware of what he's been doing behind her back, he's not going to feel very secure in trying to persue your wife, and may decide that things may be too hot for his liking.

I agree with you that selling your house and moving away is a very good idea because an A is like an addiction, and the more the chances of your W has in seeing him, the harder the chances are of your marriage ever recovering.

Billibob sometimes the problem with marriages that have children, is that the spouses don't make any time for themselves. They end up living every minute of their lives just for their children and as a result, they become nothing more than babysitters. In comes an OP who makes time to be with a married person, and soon s/he starts satisfying the EN(emotional need) of recreational companionship of said married person. Mind you that I'm not saying that this is what happened in your particular situation, but it is very well known that in order for an A to occurr, TIME INVESTED is an essential ingredient.

I highly recommend that you and your wife, read everything on this website along with the Harley books 'Surviving An Affair','His Needs Her Needs', and 'Love Busters'. And last but not least, get into counseling with a marriage saving professional such as Steve Harley or his sister Dr Jennifer Harley Chalmers (the co-author of 'Surviving An Affair') because its important to realize that BOTH OF YOU are going to need a marital plan of recovery that only a professional, specializing in marital recovery after an A, can provide.

Good luck and keep us posted.

well im still here it helps knowing im not alone I've tried to get her to talk but she doesnt want to she just wants to sweep it under the rug and act like it never happened I tried hard to believe that she did not want to lose me I made the first move I tried to make love to her fri she wore a new nitie but I couldnt o she did 5 times when i kissed her i knew his lips had been there when i made love to her i knew he had been there on sunday i told her i had 2 questions i wanted to ask 1 i told her she had said she had no contact with the om since 3-5 witch was the last time she went to the hotel to be with him she said she hadnt called him or answered the phone since she said she hoped he would get the hint that it was over well the phone records indicate this and i said if he didnt know than why hasnt he tried to contact you well she said she had called him 3-7 tues and told him it was over another lie i then asked her how long shes had the new nittie she said a few weeks well its the first time ive seen it and it makes me wonder who saw it first me or om did she buy it for me or him she gets mad that i come here she doesnt want to talk about things ive learned here she just wants to sweep it under the rug and act like it never happened i think she wants me to forgive her love her and she still wants to have her affairs i cant live like this

billibob...it's almost text book that the WS wants to "just move on" for you to "get over it", anything but discuss it.

Your healing will not begin until you have your fears laid to rest, at least somewhat. She's going to have to talk about it...if that's what you need, and if she wants your marriage to heal.

You need some answers, you need honest ones. Now the problem of getting to honest answers is twofold. One your spouse is really working under the false impression that she is "protecting" you from further pain by hiding things (ie. lying)...the second is that she is trying to cover her own @$$ from your anger and from having to deal with your sorrow.

It usually takes a bit of doing for the WS to understand that this is the worst thing they can do. We, the BS, find that whatever little bit of trust we might be holding onto with all our might, goes right out the window. We can't figure out how in the world they would continue to lie and wound us further when it's so plain that we're sitting here in pain.

First step...this is about YOU! You've got to get to a position inside yourself where you can hear the truth without hitting the ceiling. If you can't do that, then when your W is trying to be honest, she discovers that it's going to be met with rage and tears. This leads her to be less likely to be honest the next time.

Second step...you have to keep reminding her that only honesty is going to keep your marriage together. This will take a while to sink in. You do not let a lie slide, but you don't jump all over it either. You calmly, if possible, tell her that lies are not acceptable. That you want the truth!

Third step...be careful what you ask about. Finding out details may not be productive for your healing. They tend to create "triggers" in our hearts and minds long after you've begun recovery. So be sure that what you ask...you need to know.

Fourth step...Do NOT lie yourself! You can NOT expect honesty if you don't give it. (Very important)

Fifth step...Commit to your marriage, right now committing to your marriage may be easier then committment to your partner. It can make the difference in getting over those hurdles which you'll find your spouse and you are putting in front of your recovery.

It seems that men have a larger issue with dealing with the physical side of the betrayal...ie pictures in our minds, altho, women to have this, I tend to believe that it's not the factor that it is for men. JMHO

The only thing I can say is that it gets easier...IF...your spouse is doing what you need them to do outside the bedroom.

There is a lot of valuable information on this site, please read and take from it what you believe might benefit your marriage and you. Look over "Plan A" which might seem at first glance to be only for those dealing with an on-going affair and becoming a "doormat". This is NOT what Plan A is about. It's about focusing on what is positive in your marriage, looking and reflecting on YOURSELF and what you can do FOR YOU so that you can be a better person, hence a better partner. It's respecting yourself and respecting your partner.

Good Luck!

btw...if you'll put breaks in your posts...they are much easier to read. Thanks!

bllibob--

I am so sorry for your pain - but it will get easier for you. You are experiencing grief - above all, be kind to yourself, and don't blame yourself for your W's behavior.

It is just my opinion - take it with a grain of salt - but I say that you shouldn't keep their secret. I would definately tell the OM's wife what happened. For one thing, she deserves to know (wouldn't you want to know? I would - if for nothing other than health and safety reasons - you don't know who else he could be sleeping with). Also, if OM's wife knows about it - it will be harder for your W and the OM to see each other.

You can tell your wife - "I'm in her shoes and if it were me, I'd want to know. Sorry if it hurst you but there has to be acountability here."

I'll be saying a prayer for you.

allforone

Hi Billibob,

I'm so sorry that you are hurting so much right now.... Believe me, I know what you are going through right now.

Just a Wifey has some great points... and she's right when she says that most WS just want to the BS to "just get over it" or "act like nothing happened"... I know that my FWW sure did...

It will take time for your W to come around if she is truly committed to rebuilding your M... I recommend telling the OM's wife... it will help get the A out in the open and it will end the fantasy world for both of them.

Get a copy of the book Torn Asunder by Dave Carder... I feel that this book addresses the BS pain much better than Surviving an Affair does.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Just a note of caution. When a spouse has not decided or has not been able to overcome the fantasy of the affair, and stop making contact with the OW/OM, they often take greater caution in hiding their involvment and contact. Once a spouse knows you are checking their cell phone records,etc., they often change to phone cards or a prepaid cell phone so they can continue making contact and not be traced. They also change and get another free e-mail account that the spouse is unaware of such as a yahoo, hot mail accounts etc.
Please be aware that this is an addiction and your spouse is letting the addiction control her/him. The spouse you married is in a fog lost to reality of what a relationship requires. The addict you are dealing with need a good plan A to get her/him through the addiction/obession even though it will be the hardest thing you will ever do. The addict will become a very masterful liar, & deciever. As a BS you will get stronger emotionally with every betrayal but you will wonder if the pain will ever end. Don't LB at your spouses failures but forgive and help your spouse in any way to set up boundies to make them accountable for their actions
Just decided if the marriage/spouse is worth fighting for and be determined to help your spouse recover from this obession. Try to look beyond your own pain and see the needs in your spouse and try to meet them the best way you can.
Sometime it take 6 months to many years to recover but it can be done if YOU want to do it.
Best Wishes

Billibob, thanks for the note on my post. Yes there are so many things that are similar in our situations. I don't really have any thing to say to make your pain better but I can tell you, you are not alone. I know that my H is trying but it seems he always says the wrong thing and the wrong time or sometimes I feel like he is trying so hard to make it up to me that I'm not sure if it is real or fake. I think alot of this is because I do not trust any more. Do be aware of what the last writer wrote my H used phone cards, he had about two or three e-mails the one he used the most I found by mistake on it I found notes he had sent and he also used yahoo messenger and that did not show up on the history of the computer but the instant message she left with a phone # did!!! boy was I hot when I found that my H also had a hand held organizer which he kept address and phone numbers on and a letter he had sent to her. I think the words that I read that are now stuck in my head are the hardest things for me to forget and get over I am trying but it is hard. Hang in there she has got to relize how lucky she is to have a faithful husband.

well im just sitting here cring, she doesnt want to get help, no conseling ,no plan ,a she just goes on as if nothing has happened ,she was undressing last nite and i noticed 3 circular spots on her thy ,i asked her whats that, she said she bumped into a door, they look like hickies to me, pinkish red ,not bluish purple, am i parinoid ,or are they shoving it in my face, now since i know hes going to leave marks to let me know hes had her ,and she let him ,she still just leaves and is gone all day with plenty of unexplained time she told me thismorning that i didnt look like i slept well, well i havent nor am i eating right, little to none. i see no remorse and she doesnt understand that a part of me feels dead, that i should just forget i cant forget this is the worst thing that has ever happened to me and it wont just go away

Billibob,

The normal progression is for you to use plan a this lets her know you can will try to meet her needs, and that you can avoid LB's. However, this often doesn't bring the spouse back, but it does plant seeds that will grow later. The next step is Plan B.

Cerri (a person who posts here and also has been through the Harley seminars) likes say that plan a is for HER, plan b is for YOU.

In plan B you remove yourself from the equation and from being hurt by seeing hickeys placed on her by OM. He is probably doing this to get to you, and your W being the fogbound idiot she is has become a partner is this pain. Plan B is for you to remove yourself from this hurt and retain as much love for her as you can.

Why? Because most affairs end, and if you have no love left for her you won't care and the marriage will end. If you do have love left, and she decides she wants to be a loving and married W then you have the love and strength to do the rebuilding. Plan B also often starts to bring an air of reality to the affair and its consequences, but that really isn't the purpose. The purpose is to let the affair live on its own which often leads to the end of the affair.

I think it is time for you to consider plan B, while doing or continuing to do a good plan A. It is often misstated here that plan A should last for 6 months. This is not true. It should last as long as you can, but end before you lose your love for your W. That could be 6 months, 2 years, or 2 weeks. But, do plant the seeds and then lay out your plans for plan B.

This plan should involve a plan b letter to your W. It is an interesting letter because in essence it is a love letter, but one that states that you won't be around until OM is out of her life. I would suggest you post it here and let people offer you advice on it when you get to this point.

billibob, it is time to start to formulate a plan. If you keep just standing there taking it, you will lose your love for your W and your marriage will be over. It surely won't help your sons if you do.

By the way, are they now in Boy Scouts or still Cubs? It is a great program for boys. Both of mine went through Boy Scouts and the older one was just fanatical about it.

Must go, but do some reading here, get some of Harley's books, and make a PLAN. That will help you survive the and give you the strength to give you marriage the best chance it can have.

God Bless,

JL

thanks just learning, the boys are in boyscouts, oldest son just made eagle, so proud of him sticking thru it. other 2 sons still working on it. thanks for the advice, but i think ill wait till sometime after surgery which is tommorrow and recovery and just think what to do, i feel i cant live without her, dont even want to do the dating thing, dont think i could give my heart away to be stomped on again, well wont be on for awhile due to surgery ill check back asap

Billibob, I didn't have time to reply to your post yesterday but I thought of you all day. Your pain I'm sure is so deep. I would like to tell you of my first month after finding out. I too did not sleep I was afraid if I feel asleep he would be on the computer to her I didn't eat dropping about 8 pounds in just over a week may not sound to bad but I could not afford to loose 8 pounds that put me way under wieght everyone at work was asking what was wrong why was I so thin my work pants would hardly stay up I had to pin them. I cried all the time I could hardly make it through work I think out of guilt my H would call or stop by I think he really thought I was going to die on him and believe me at times that felt like an easy answer to my pain. I believe that if you have not already you need to tell the OM wife what is going on why do you need to protect him? after all he doesnt seem to care about your feelings. Also have you confronted him about this issue? about 5 weeks after I found out about the A I found an e-mail from the OW it had a phone # on it I called but she was not at work so I sent her an e-mail I told her how I felt how I would fight for what was mine that she needed to tend to her own family and so on. I never herd from her I thought boy she is a real chicken won't even face me but after that there was only on more short note from her which I know for a fact my H never replied to and after that no more contact. A couple of months later when I did have the chance to talk to the OW I asked her about the e-mail she confessed she got it and read it but could NOT respond she did not know how!!! I believe that was the day I became real to her I was not the uncaring spouse of this poor man who did not get the love and attention he deserved I believe I became the woman who was willing to fight for her family that day and she had no choice but to stop having contact. You need to take care of you and your family show your wife she means the world to you and you will fight for her don't try to protect a so called friend he needs to be exposed if I was his wife I would hate not knowing the truth of what was going on right under my nose.

hi im back home ,surgery went well, most of the leg pain is gone, but my back hurts bad, on 4 22 thur ,the day before my operation my wife told me her game plan was to drop me off for surgery, go to her 1st job ,then her 2nd job then go home, and pick me up sat, then later she said the guys at her first job were going to a bar after work ,and she might put off her 2nd job till the weekend, and go to the bar with them,i didnt say anything till i got back and we went to bed sat nite i cant have sex for a couple of weeks, but told her theres more than 1 way to skin a cat, well i took care of her and she got up went to the bathrm came back turned her butt tward me and went to sleep i got pissed, i told her how it made me feel when at 1st she was just going to go home and pick me up sat morning ,and then it really pissed me off when she said she was going to go out with the guys at work to the bar, i have always been there for her when she had the 3 boys and 3 diff surgerys, i had to be told to leave more than once, and that she had her fun and heck with me ,she always tries to turn it around saying shell leave ,that she doesnt want to stay where shes not wanted ,or i cant do anything right for 20 years ,i dont know what to do

It sounds like your wife is a "player" and is continuing to try to manipulate you into allowing her to continue to participate in the world of adultery. The first affair could have been considered a mistake but this affair (which you have discovered) has to be viewed as a choice. Her actions show that she has no respect for you or her marriage. Unfortunately, your wife is the kind of person who needs to see the consequences of her actions. I would notify the OM's wife as well as go to Plan B/D to show her that you are serious about moving on with her.

Billibob, I wondered what happened to you I didn't remember that you were getting surgery. I am so sorry things are still not going well for you and your W. Try to stay focused on you and getting better I will be praying that your W will see the light and come around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well I decided to tell the ow. I e-mailed her at work, this is what I wrote.

At first I didnt want to tell you because I didnt want to cause you the pain i'm going thru, but I decided you need to know for health reasons, your husband and my wife have been and possibly still are having an affair,they have been meeting at hotels my wife has admitted to this, she says the affair is over and she wants our marriage to work.I too want this and pray we can get thru this.
This was the reply I recieved.
Bill I recieved your e-mail.Do not contact me again.I speak for myself and nick.We want no further contact with you,Irene or your family.
I wander if om has access to her e-mail, or maybe she's a part of the affair,or what.
I love my wife very much, can't imagine my life without her we went to the movies the other nite with one of my sons, my wife dropped us off at the front door because of my back, my son and I had time to get popcorn, soda, and get to the seats, sat for awhile, went to the bathroom ,went back to seats, and she still wasnt in, went back outside, and she was still in the truck digging around, when i asked her what was taking so long she said she smoked a cigg, before coming, in well she was out there long enough to smoke 3 ,I dont know maybe she has a second cell phone hidden in the truck,and was talking to him. Its getting to the point where it wont take much more for me to throw in the towel.