EW just picked up d to take her to a party/sleep over and son went to movie/sleep over so I get the night to myself !!!!<P>Will go play bball with some friends till 8:30 and then ????????????????<P>Will probably go grocery shopping and come back and see whats going on here!<P>Had to laugh as EW had om's car tonite. Her her telling d that her's was filled with something. She went shopping today again !!<P><BR>If she wants me to help pay for stuff I may ask for receipts!!!<P>Also was wondering since w is going to counseling on my EAP, I wonder if om is going too? I wonder how I could find that out. I imagine they would say client confidentiality, but I don't want to be paying or my company to be paying for him.<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger<BR>

Bob,<P>Thank you for joining my prayer vigil.<P>I too would be curious about OM attending counceling w/EW.<P>Would that not be fraud?<P>Hope you enjoyed b-ball tonight.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Bob,<P>I must have missed something - when did your D go through...calling her EW??<P>I am on just for a few and probably won't check your answer until tomorrow or later -<P>Want to know how you enjoyed your evening!<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

RMA<BR>You guys gave me so much grief about calling her stbx that I changed to calling her EW, estranged wife. Divorce hearing is Feb 1st 2000.<P>Had lousy nite. Was not into playing tonite, and felt awkard. The Dr doubled my anti-deps so I'm not sure if this was the reason or not.<P>Went out for a few drinks, Long Island ice teas, and just got home. All the guys are married and all the girls/women at the bar are young enough to be my daughter. Talk about depressing. I did spot a few older singles, at least no wedding rings, however they were with "dates."<P>Just for fun I tortured myself and went by EW<BR>'s apartment and it was all dark. Went by the hospital and om's car was there. Don't know why I did that! I feel like calling her an giving her grief, sound like fun ! I guess thats the alcohol talking. So I won't be doing that !!!!!!!<P>This really sucks. I get a break from the kids and then I don't have anything to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger<BR>

Bob,<BR>I know the feeling. Took my daughter to dinner tonight, her birthday tomorrow. She will be 24 but looks 18. Really great Friday night. I am so tired of sitting at home on the weekends. Life sure is boring at times. BUt we need to whisper about being bored because someone might here us and give us a lot of hings to handle. So find a good book, or rent a movie and enjoy the peace and quiet, cause you don't know how long you will have such a quiet evening. <P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Bob,<P>I'm glad to see the name change from stbx to EW. You may think that it was just something dumb that bothered me, but, I believe that it had very strong negative conotations. You still love her.<P>If you hated her guts and that would have to include the large and small intestines, then stbx would be appropriate. In your situation it is not.<P>Take some time out for Bob when you get back from Bball. Do something that you really enjoy. I usually find it very relaxing sitting in the tubby reading trade magazines. I can sit for hours tolerating the hottest water possible until I pass out. There's really nothing like it.<P>Hang in there, Buddy! I was at the end of my rope at one time too.<BR><P>------------------<BR>"It's not over till we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!" Blutto...Animal House 1984<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P>

Medic,<BR>You just don't understand may situation. My EW, and really stbx, doesn't love me and hasn't for along time and deep down I have known this. And while she loves our kids, she doesn't want that reponsibility and I have known that too.<P>I cannot met her needs for emotional support because I am very unemotional. I don't get real high or happy and I don't get sad or down in the dumps. I really don't. The lack of emotions is one thing I am working on in counseling.<P>My Ew thrives on this emotional stuff and my lack has driven her away and she isn't coming back nno matter what. Thats just the way it is.<P>I do appreciate your support and encouragement, but I'm all for calling a spade a spade.<P>Sorry !!!!<P>BOB<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger<BR>

Hi RWD -<P>I'm sorry that your evening didn't go as well as you had hoped for.....<P>I can relate....believe me!!!<P>Bars, booze and broads aren't going to cut it though!!!<P>Why is it that we "adults" gravitate to bars for "something to do"????<P>I sometimes feel like putting an ad in the paper for people like me who just want something entertaining to do and are alone ........<P>I just want to play some cards, board games, shoot pool, go to an amusement park, etc.........<P>My friends (that are single) just want to go to bars and clubs.......<P>UGH!!!!!!!!! I did that in my early 20's......don't want a repeat of that soap opera!!!!!<P>I don't know - I suppose we will eventually find new people of like situations and mind to do these things with.....in the meantime - there's always reading, organizing stuff and the ever-so-much-fun of cleaning!!!!!<P>Whoa.....there's a treat!!!!!<P>Don't worry RWD, us "used to being married" folks will get the hang of this sooner or later!!!!!<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba

Bob,<P>I was a f*cking vulcan for so many years. The star trek guy who had NO emotions. I was so caught up in my career. I brought it home with me. <P>I worked with a very busy advanced life support station that responded to a large amount of cardiac and respiratory problems. I would get there, diagnose the situation, deliver life saving measures and make sure that they didn't die on the way to the hospital.<P>I was very unemotional about my patients. I was focused on what I had to do to for them to save them. Didn't get involved. You get personal you divert your attention. I call it "wearing of the orange" PARAMEDIC on our patches is stiched in orange.<P>I was the same way at home. I didn't see it then. Now I do. Am I so far off now?<P>Val was the best thing that ever happened to me. I ****ed up bad! She started drifting away. I didn't see it. <P>She had an affair.<P>I found this place.<P>I learned so much.<P>So can you.<P> <P>------------------<BR>"It's not over till we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!" Blutto...Animal House 1984<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P>

Sheba,<BR>You are right! I really didn't want to go. but my choice was going home and setting around alone or go out for a few hosur and having a little fun. so i chose to go out. It was alright but I don't want to do thsi every weekend.<P>Medic.<BR>I understand what you are saying, and I am learning. However carol wanst results now and is unwilling to wait for me plus she has found "true" love in her om. <P>Thats why I'm doing for me, not for her. If she wants me back, SHE will have to be the one that makes big changes.<P>Bob<BR>

I don't believe that she has found "true love" with the OM and neither do you.<P>Bob, once again not trying to be an [censored], but, it doesn't seem that you have grasped Dr H's principles. I am also the betrayed and feel responsible for what I am currently receiving. <P>But I have also made tremendous progress by not love busting and showing Val the "TIM" that she fell in love with so many years ago. I do not speak of the affair or Brian. We both know what happened and don't need to hear of it on a daily basis or ever again.<P>I have a positive attitude and talk to her that we will be together very soon. I will not give up on this marriage and will continue to fight up until a time that one or both of us are dead.<P>This is what I want and I WILL not settle for anything else.<BR><P>------------------<BR>"It's not over till we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!" Blutto...Animal House 1984<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P>

HEY RWD,<BR> I played BBALL tonight too!! I got a little TOO agressive on the boards whenever I thought of OM!! <BR> EW loves OM? Please!! What kind of love, REAL LOVE comes from LIES and SELFISHNESS? <P> Don't give up, GOD can turn this around in a HEART BEAT!! GOOD LUCK FRANK

Bob,<P>Just have a minute here - I understand now about the EW. Better! <P>OK, I don't think you are supposed to drink while on anti-depressants - so 50 lashes with raw bacon and you have to eat 500 pop-tarts, too! <P>Well, your first night "out" - what did you expect - to have a blast???? Naw....you will probably feel wierd for some time. I had to go solo to my staff Christmas party last weekend and I was one of two there solo. There was music and some dancing...I LOVE dancing, and alone.... <P>Oh, well, it will feel better later. Give yourself some time to feel more natural by yourself.<P>Keep working on the anger management....I see alot of it still there....but still luv ya <P>Listen to Medic, Bob. Maybe you and Carol will never get back together...I have no idea. But Medic is telling you some home truths here...you could benefit from a different perspective and attitude. You seem so negative and that has got to come across to Carol wheenever you two interact.<P>She did wrong, she is still doing wrong...no doubt about it. But, your love for her still comes across...but, so does your anger, resentment and defeatist attitude.<P>I am not trying to beat you up...I REALLY DO CARE! So does Medic and the others here.<P>Re-read this post and see if you can come up with different answers than the ones you gave to Medic. If you change your attitude and approach, you MIGHT see differnt results. If you do the same old, same old, I GUARANTEE Carol's response will be the same old, same old.....<P>Luv Ya and will check tomorrow,<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Bob, <BR>Ok, you and I have the same goal...My div hearing is Feb 4th, 2000, yours is close to that...our goal is to make sure it doesn't happen!! It is so difficult when I think about all that he is giving up, all for someone he has only met twice (an online affair that has been going on 2 yrs now). But I do know that I will survive, no matter what happens come Feb. Even though Plan B has been difficult, I have learned so much about myself, that I am an ok person, that I have a lot to offer someone else or my husband if he wants it, and even if it does not go the way I want in Feb, I will find love again. I am 45 and been married 17 yrs. I have a great support group of friends and even one that has been interested in me for a long time. I will NOT go there until I know my marriage is truly over, and for me, I guess divorce papers are it. But it is comforting to know that there are others out there who find me attractive and want me. <P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

I haven't failed to grasp HArleys principles. They just didn't work for me because of EW wants out of the marriage !<P>I tried Plan A when I first found out about the affair. I was in it for about 6 weeks. Then I found out she was still seeing om, so I told her she couldn't stay and continue to see him, so she left. I didn't throw her out I gave her an option and SHE chose to leave.<P>So I went to Plan B while she was staying in hotel that om was paying for. Then she moved into apt and om moved in 2 weeks later. I was in Plan B but I did love bust some.<P>She did come home once and ask to move back. I said yes. But within 5 hrs she had changed her mind.<P>3 months later om dumped her. She never really talked about moving home and said she liked living om her own.<P>We tried to reconcile. For the first week, she would come in, come right to me, give me a hug and a kiss. That lasted one week, then she started distancing herself from me.<P>A month later she told me she was back seeing om again and it wasn't working between us. I actually found out she had called om from my home about 2 weeks prior to telling me we were done.<P>So while I tried for a month to reconcile, she tried for a week.<P>As for now, we are both in Plan B, although she is still living with om. She doesn't even care that she doesn't see me and now knows what pain she causes me when she is around so she is avoiding me.<P>I am avoiding her too. We have almost no contact unless she asks the kids to talk to me. I really have nothing left to say to her.<P>As for loving her. There is something left, but not much. This woman has chosen herself, her career, her om, before her own children. She made plans to have the kids Wed nite next week. That will be 10 days since she has spent any time with them. I can not respect that. As for me I have always been about 5th. I am seeing that now so why would things change in the future. <P>I am looking forward to the divorce because MINE IS DEAD.<P>Can God save it ? Yes!, Will he change it? I don't know. Should I wait? It has been over 6 months of waiting and I for one have had enough. I read in heartpains thread that his wife is very determined, my wife is the same. Once they set their mind on something they follow it through to the end. In this case it is the end of my marriage.<P>If I come across as sounding negative, it is in my case only. I do believe in Hrleys principles if both spouses are willing to work on the marriage. In my case, only I was willing.<P>Even my 2 professional counselors and my minister agreed with me in getting the divorce. They have seen enough of these cases I guess that they realize when someone just wants out of the marriage.<P>As fro lovebusters, I had my share, no more than anybody else here. It just was that it didn't matter. As for a quitter, I am not. I am a grinder, I wear my opposition down. In this case, I got too far behind, and the rout was on. The final "gun" in this game will be the divorce papers.<P>Thanks again for all your support!<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger<BR>

Bob,<P>I will be brief, but, I will not give up on you. Almost everyones S who is currently in an affair wants out of the marriage. You have been here for awhile. Come on MAN!<P>Early on I asked Val is she wanted a divorce. She said it would probably be best. The "answer" that someone in fantasyland would give. It's in their manual.<P>IT WOULD BE BEST FOR WHO? For me or for her. I still love her dearly.[I know you haven't heard that in the last 24 hours]. She still loves me! I may be dumb as dirt but I do see it in her eyes. Says "I'm not IN LOVE with you". Also in the handbook.<P>She fell in love with me 11 years ago and will again. I will not fail.<P>You must release the anger. Change your outlook. I was listening to a CD the kid left behind, Monster Ballads. They WERE the saddest songs that I ever heard two weeks ago. NOW I play them almost constantly and pull the power that the words are telling me to go after what I want. I want my W back into my life.<P>I have NEVER wanted something so much as building my marriage. It will be done.<BR> <P>------------------<BR>"It's not over till we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!" Blutto...Animal House 1984<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P>

Medic,<BR>If anybody can do it you can! We are just not in the same situation. I have nothing to work with. How can I win somebody back when I don't see or talk to them ? And she doesn't want to see me or talk to me. SHE WANTS OUT!! She doesn't necessarily want this om, she just doesn't want me or the kids. I think she took om back because she got lonely and instead of turning to her family she turned to him! What does that tell you.<P>Sorry to yell!!!!! I get frustrated with you telling me to hang in there and there's nothing to hang too.

Bob,<P>Sorry, not trying to piss you off. I was in the same position as you are now. <P>Val has been out of the house for 9 months. Didn't accept my calls about a month or so ago. Wouldn't call back, didn't want anything to do with me. I felt I had nothing to work with either.<P>I'll back off.

hi rwd, i like the change of name for your wife too. Being alone can be a drag, but maybe a change a perspective is what you need? You seem to have time alone and that is depressing you. Maybe you need to get involved with some group activities? Great time of yr for it. You could volunteer to deliver toys for tots, food baskets, or exercise more, join a gym? The bball sounds great but afterwards sounds like a drag! Sending hugs, cl

Tim,<BR>Hey, no problem. I do appreciate the support you and everybody else has been giving me here. I just feel it is pointless at this time. My EW doesn't even think about me. She just comes and picks up the kids and leaves.<P>I just can't take anymore of her rejections. And I cannot stand how she is dealing with the kids at all. These are both major lovebusters in my book. Thats why I have gone to Plan B. But you what, she doesn't care. She just wants out. And now so do I. Do I still love her. There is something there, but I don't know if its love. I thinks its because it the mother of my children more than anything. I don't find myself missing her so much as missing having someone around.<P>Cl,<BR>You are right in that I am alone alot as I work out of my home and travel around in a 100 mile radius of home, so I do spend a lot of time alone. I work for a wack company now and they watch our phone bills and question everyone if they deem it too long. As a road person, I don't have too many close office friends as they are 200 miles away.<P>And since i have the kids 99% of the time I really don't have time to do other things. I feel as if I'm cheating them if I'm not home most nights. It is really the weekends, except this one that are the worst. The other problem is I don't have any single friends, all mine are married family men(and women) so they can't just drop things and go out and do things with me. I am working on making new friends though.<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger<BR>