hi,
i need some advice, my story is as follow:
24 years ago we deciced to get married as we could not be without each other, we loved each other, we moved to her country.
22 years ago i felt traped and i asked my wife to have a temporary separation (i wanted to see if i could make it on my own i have been always with family and i felt i needed to experience that) i remember i saw her face and her reaction that i did not persued this desire.
20 years ago we moved close to her family everything seems ok and we where happy we had good jobs, the only draw back was our scheduals where out of sinck, i worked nights she worked days, even our days off where different.
18 years ago we dicided to buy a house and start a family, durring this time she spent a lot of time organizing conferences for different people and work shops, she spend a lot of time traveling, about this time she had an affair with one of her clients (according to her one night stand, she never told me this) about 2-3 months later she was pregnat with our first bornand life continued as normal half way her pregnancy i asked when she called me from one of her trips if she was with her lover in the same room and she got so mad and deny it with all her might, we never touched this subject again.
our lifes continued as espected,having kids and a family we have 2 children in total.
13 years ago we move because a friend of her offered a job and he got involved in our family to the point that i felt uncomfortable (i never liked her soon to be boss)i always felt bad feelings about him, he separeted and remarried , during this time my wife had mood changes that i did not understand at the time. i beacame depress and i had to be under doc. observations for years to come, i lost my job about this time and i have not been aviable to keep a steady job since this town that we move in, do not see foringners as a equal, i had to find my jobs in other areas of this state, life had ots ups and downs as any one else.
one year ago i got a contract with a big company i had contact with difernt people mostly females in this company, one day i asked a co-worker to have lunch with me because the nature of the job we have spend time together and it seems natural that we had lunch, we did no went back to work that day we ended in bed this continued for a week, i i told her (my lover) that i was not looking for anything that i had someone who i did love more than anything else on earth, so i had to quit that job and anounce to my wife the reasons of quiting, i told my wife that i loved her and to please to forgive me for my weakness moment, i am still feeling so bad about all this, that has been almost a year ago and i still can not forgive my self for what i have done, about 6 months ago i almost comited sucide, we started counselling 10 months ago, it has helped in our relationship,
6 and half months in one of this meeting with the councelor she told me that she had a one night stand 17 years ago prior pregnancy, she could ot pinpoint the month when her one night stand happened, i requested dna test and it was confirmed that the children are mine, i have to make clear that in 25 years since i know her i have not been with anyone else untill last year, i asked her who the person was as she asked me who the girl was, i was tunderstruck to find out who, you have guess it her boss, and she went to say that for 17 years she has been faithfull to me that she never disrespected me in any form that she has stand tall behind me in all my decitions and doings, that 17 years of been faithfull shoould count for something, i asked the same questions she asked about my lover, did she love him?? she said she had a crush on him, how long that relation lasted she said one night and she relize she loved me and did not tell me because she was afraid to hurt my feelings, anything else is answred with i do not remember, one of my pet peeves is that we moved to his territory, that she continued to have dealings with him that he still comes here to visit (not anymore) for so many years, that if i have known about it then we where not be here in this town, she has told me that she has dealings (he has retire as for 4 years) with him in the "PROFESIONAL" level and that is what she had since we moved here, in the other side of the coin she has demanded to sever all contact with my lover, that all the contract sing by her should be void and/or forget, she demanded when i told her about my affair to have a full STD done to insure that i di not have anything nasty(did i had that right when she had her "one nightstand" NO)
ifeel that i havebeen blind for 24 years
i feel that i have the blind trust i had been destroy
i feel that i am faighting a lost battle here i can not compete against him
i feel that i am defeated
i feel that as long we stay here we are not going to be happy either her or me
but in all this i love her still the same, but i feel lesser man for what i have done but lesser man for not providing her with all her needs from here i see only tree roads to follow
one leave and divorce
two forget and forgive
say good by to life(drastic solution to a temporary problem)
please help me
sacamuelas
2003

Sacamuelas (pulling out molars) your W(wife) is right about NC(no contact) with the OW(other woman, your lover) BUT she too should also do the same with respect to her OM(other man, your wife's lover) because not only is it the right thing to do but also because it shows fairness to you. You also have serious issues (i.e. attempted suicide) that you need to take care of, and her continued contact with her former lover, no matter if its on a professional level, IS harmful to your personal recovery. If you W truly cares about you, she should apply her own demands on your situation to her own situation.

<small>[ May 27, 2003, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

there are some problems about (om) he is involved also in the eduaction for my children he can wipe out all the efforts we have done to better the eduacation of my childrens, he is involved with a lot f minors all the time organizing a lot of outings with only female student from the high school, i have heard rumors that when he can he orginize sexual encaounters with under age females, few years back he had an affair with a prominent married female in our comunity, he is married at the moment but a friend of mine has set up an encounter with him in a near by hotel, she was abused by him when she was under age she has been under stress and she had adquire HIV and she wants revange , she does not know about my problem, i have not say anythig to discorage this actions but i am affarid that if he get HIV he will contaminate a lot of underage females, and his wife and i will know if my wife still have sexual contact with him in that way i have sugested to my wife to stop any contact with him because what he has done in his pass is catching up, and will damage a lot of people around, do i tell my wife what has happend in the last few days??? or keep my mouth shut, in the other hand i am afraid that he will ruin the life of my children, he has more power than anyone i know even some people who had sex with him as adolecents refuse to take action against him, what to do????
mi wife still defending him a lot she said that he is not guilty of what they did that they where consenting adults when that happen, i told her that the affair has been forgiven and forgotten as she has done to my situation,but the lie that she keep for so long is not forgoten or forgiven, that we should work towards a better understanding and trust, that we should fullfill the basic need for our relationship, that trust is not something that is given and it should be hearn and she said to me that she does not want our relationship to end that we have still a lot to give to each other. i told her about moving out of here and compromise somewhere where we can be comfortable and happy she said she is all set here and the move is out of the question, what can i do
i will like to have time by myself away from all this for while do you think this is good idea???
please help me !!!!!!

Sacamuelas unless you have concrete proof of wrongdoing on the part of OM, you should avoid making accusations that may end up backfiring on you.

What are the reasons your W gives you that makes her refuse the idea of moving away?

If this woman who wants to trap him with HIV really has HIV, you are morally obligated to tell your wife and probably the other man (OM) too. While you obviously do not care about the man, anyone who purposely spreads HIV is criminal.

as per acusations there is prube about his doings, he has not counted with some of the people he screwed (litarly), want to get all this in the open for years now, i have defended him i have heared some stories before from young females that confided in me, i always have say if they could probe it to go ahead the law is quit explicit when minor are involved if there is a suspition of something wrong it should be reported asap, i have reported to local authorities before i had problems wit him. about the HIV i have informed my W about it she has told OM's wife of the possibiliti of contamination, as for my wife reasons for not moving out of town are, economically not sound as per her, that she has settle here (we bought this house 15 years ago), that all her network friends are in thiis area, and just no she does ot want to move, that she is comfortable and happy here, that the children are comfortable too as i say before i think i am fighting a battle i am not going to win or lose, it is in the air i asked if it was good idea to move for a bit from here do you think this is a good idea????
i do not want to leave my children they have become more than that they are my best friends and i do not want to hurt them either.
please help me

Why doesn't your W find another job where she will no longer have contact with her OM?

Senority, she is not interestedd on other ares to work she is realy good plus pay is almost as good as mine, benifits are good and she will be retired in 10 years (hell for me in the next few years if i stay) the kids are well establish and they are well accepted around her peers, and mostly plain and simple she does not want to compromise going out side of town (there is a thing about moving she will not quit her job for sure so if we move there is traveling time and overtime i want to risk for her OM to start another session of infedelity???? ) at list i will have my enemies close by.
have sugested that he shoould realy retire and move somewhere else (yes although he did not respect my marrige i told him as long we are in the same town he should move or realy retired from the comunity and enjoy whatever in his life is left), his wife has come and asked me if i know something about his escapades i told her that is not my buss that she should ask him and act upon it, and i suggested to have a ful STD done on herself before anything happend, as for him i do not care about him all i want is peace on my mind that he is not molesting another childrens in the comunity, what happen between him and my wife is their problem i have come to a point that i belive my W about one night stand and that we are trying to rebuild our marrige
thanks

there are issues that have come up in the last few days, i asked for absolutly the same rules she wants me to follow to be applied to her even the councelor have input about this, next day she came and told me that the OM's wife has invited her (and not me) to a party at their house and she is going because all the other co-workers are going to be there, i might have a surprise visit during this party hehehe! also i have decided not to eventhink about what has happened in the pass i have to see the future, for my well been and what is going to happend should happend, we are growing apart and we are not even agree what we want of this marrige i am asking for more human contact, and she is asking for the oposite so what can i do
i want to stay in this marrige and she knows that and she is playing her cards well to take advantage of me and pared me as a fool in the eyes if her co-workers, well if there is a gathering as her husdband i should be there and behave as i should be in proper mamers and see what happen.
please can some want tell me if plan a & be ever work with sturbone mules?????

Sacamuelas I don't have to tell you that you can't force another person to do what you think is the right thing to do, BUT you certainly can change your behavior and by doing so you will definitely be impacting the other person's behavior towards you.

As far as you going uninvited, I advice you against doing this because doing this will be harmful to all your efforts to save your M(marriage). The remaining love your W(wife) has for you MAY be severely harmed.

Please read and implement the principles in Dr Willard Harley's books 'Surviving An Affair', 'Love Busters'(I recommend you read this one first), and 'His Needs Her Needs'. I also recommend that your read Michelle Weiner Davis books 'Divorce Remedy' and 'The Sex Starved Marriage'. In the meantime, you can get a head start on using these principles by reading this websites articles in the Q&A and Concepts sections. Here's something to tie you over, and their called The Four Rules For A Succesful Marriage. Read them and applying them right now.

thanks esspresoman:
have read the books, and i have recomendes them to my W she has said they are full of BS, so i have recomended other ones, same coment, she will deal with our situation as asap in her own way, that she has biger issues at the moment to deal with, (i do not see what isues she is talking about) also she has been diagnosted as a HIGH A.D.D., and she has a unique way to deal with problems, so i always have changed my ways to acomadate her and her ways i am tired of all this i want to know how i can solve this the councelor is with the idea if i push to much i will be alone not to long from now, i have given in in her conditions and she has not on mine, she stil have dealing with the OM as last night after work all the people in her office went for drinks, i discovered this because she called me to pick her up tha she had more alcohol in her system for driveing, when i arrive at the bar some of the co-workers and spouses where there, i have to drive the OM to his place and his wife too, and beliveme it was not easy for me when we arrive home she asked me what was wrong and i told her that i did not apreaciated that she offer me as his driver and that i wanted not contact whatoever with him and that she should do the same as she has requested to me about the OW, so i still see that the rules appliy to one side but not to the other side what can i do, wait untill her decition of doing something or bite my .........
and be patient????
it seems to me that i am the only one in this relationship who wants something, from her side she has become worst, as the anologie youused about Spok's coment to be alone, my analogie will be she was half vulcan before now she has became full vulcan and has gone beyond it
even the children have noticed her cold side and i am compensateing for that with them,
what can i do???????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the councelor is with the idea if i push to much i will be alone not to long from now</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dentist have you asked your counselor what to do to prevent you from reaching the point of no longer having any love left for her, and proceeding with divorce? I would recommend that you ask the next time you see him/her.

In the meantime consider emotionally detaching yourself from her by truly accepting the truth that you can't force her to change for the better. I beleive that Michelle Weiner Davis 180 degree list may help you in this respect. Here's the list:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage her to talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone he would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21.Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic
23.Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes her feelings stronger).
24. Be patient.
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180 degrees, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

And if she starts saying things like 'it's over between us. I want to move on with my life' consider using Orchid's reverse psychobabble on her by saying 'I agree, I too want to move on with my life' (not necessarily by divorcing her). The typical WS beleives that s/he can always return to the M(marriage) whenever s/he so choses and on his/her terms, and the last thing s/he expects is the BS showing strength and wanting the same thing s/he wants. Of course there are no guarantees that this will work, but it will definetely show the WS that you, the BS, are emotionally strong and are not going to die without her.

Thak you again espresoman:
i will try to follow the recomendations, and i will keep you posted of what is going on.

i started to follow the sugesstions and belive me i discovered that most of them are what we have done for years with some exeptions, there isa a problem i have not mention before my sexual drive went from 10 km p/h to 500 km p/h which se noticed is this normal i am trying to curve the sexual drive to aminimun and she is not interested on it she said that most of the times it hurts her and i have desisted of asking (begging) for sex and she has asked me why this changes and what i am going to acomplish with them, my respond have been vague and short, she is in a situation at work that she is organizing a large conferance (yes, with the om) and it is taken most of the time (that is what i think), i have not asked anyquestions about her time organizing this she comes home and the time we spend together (in the same house ), is on her relationship with the children, i always have undrestood that when a large conferance is coming i become the less important person in her life, but knowing that the om is takeing her time for organizing the conferance, makes me angry amd ready to walk away, she has told me that nothing is going on and that she is doing her job, also she has told me that in few weeks after the conferance she wants to have time (vacations) by herself, i have agreed with this but by accident i have found that the om and his wife have make reservations for her and themselves near by resort, children will be out of the question, what can i do ????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sacamuelas:

"I always have undrestood that when a large conferance is coming i become the less important person in her life, but knowing that the om is takeing her time for organizing the conferance, makes me angry amd ready to walk away, she has told me that nothing is going on and that she is doing her job, also she has told me that in few weeks after the conferance she wants to have time (vacations) by herself, i have agreed with this but by accident i have found that the om and his wife have make reservations for her and themselves near by resort, children will be out of the question, what can i do ????</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well first of all an angry outburst is a love buster that will only diminish whatever romantic love she has left for you. So what can you do? For starters stop love busting her and second, be honest with her by calmly explaining to her (without losing your cool) that you found out by other means about the reservations the OM and his W are making for her, and let her explain herself. If she won't explain herself, then calmly walk away from her and do something else. Leave her alone with her thoughts about the dishonesty she is perpetrating, for it just may cause her to do some thinking about her choices.

Learn to control your emotions by eliminating all love busters on your part (angry outbursts, selfish demands, and disrespectful judgments). Love busters are habits that destroy romantic love between couples, and sabotage your efforts for the two of you to rebuild your marriage into a much better one.

hi is me again, i just asked mi wife if she still planed to go for :vaction" alone and she said yes and reconfirm that nothing is going on i asked if the OM and his wife will be there at the same time she said no, i told her that by accident i found out that she was booked by the same travel agent that he has booked her and the other couple in the same resort and flights she said that is not true,that she is going by herself, i told her that i am tired of her lieds that we should make at list the efort to make our marrige work or separate, as i see she still under the influence of the OM, i have follow plan A and your pointers, but i think there is a biger problem with my wife thatn i can handle as far i can see she has not shw any changes or remorse as i have done in my case even the children have asked me when is mom coming back (meaning when she will be like she was couple years ago), i am in a point that it can not be pushed anymore, i am even contempleated a total separation (divorce) but i still think there is something in me that wants to rresolve this i just do not want to separeted in bad terms if that is going to happen, also i found out that the OM has STD and his wife as well (She told me), i am afraid that i will end up with something nasty.
sacamuelas