I've been checking out the posts here for a while, and actually e mailed the link to my wife, who has also read some of the material. It has really helped me quite a bit, but I need some advice from others in my situation.
Married 11 years, two kids, seperated in 9/02. I ran a business for ten years, which took a lot of time and energy, and lost it in 2000 and have debt remaining. I had a hard time after, and wife also,and she ended up having an affair with a coworker, which was the icing that led to seperation. Since, we've both probably experienced every emotion known, but really have had very little contact with each other. We can discuss anything regarding our kids, and are both very agreeable with most anything regarding the. BTW, custody is 50/50. I live in our home, and she moved to an apartment, where she lives alone. I'm pretty sure the affair was short lived, and had run it's course even before I found out about it.Now, we get along okay, and are basically pleasant to each other, but tension still arises when theres something important to discuss.
The reason I found this site, and emailed the link to my wife, was cause I have been feeling like we never really gave our marriage a chance to work. We never could communicate with each other over anything, each have different interests, and goals in life. We like everything different. Why do I still feel love for someone who is so different, and has hurt me so much? Why do I want to try to restore this marriage, and is it even a good idea? Am I gonna be the one to make sacrifices to make it work? Any insight from others would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the kids are 9 and 7. They have both handled this all really great- I'm sure though they'd love to see us all as a family again... me also....
Thanks

It sounds like: How to Survive Incompatibility might be a good link to read. Have you read the Basic Concepts section through from beginning to end?

I think reading "Surviving an Affair" together would be a good exercise for you two. There is no question that no matter how well your kids adjust to a divorce, for the two of you to remain married in a good marriage would be preferable. But gettng to a good mariage is not going to be easy. Read SAA and see what you think about Harley's ideas about how to get to a good marriage.

Hello:

It is clear that you love your wife very much.
Please try to get into counseling together immediately. I would also strongly suggest that the both of you make time and try to go on a mini-vacation and try to communicate.
My top suggestion would be to sit down and write letters to your wife telling her of your love for her and that 10 years is a long time to just be thrown away. Write a loving letter every day and I think you will be surprised what will occur in the both of you. I wish you luck.

I appreciate the suggestions. Yes, I still do love her very much, but i'm not sure if I can ever live with her again. She still cannot communicate about anything of importance- she says she is unsure if she can even try anymore. I did buy the His Needs, Her Needs, and am reading that book. It really has a lot of good material- i've learned a lot, but the problem I think I face is I may be the only one that can face my mistakes and change. I don't know if she can do the same. I've prayed so long and hard about this- about whether or not I can sincerely try to reconcile. I'm happy a lot now being alone, although I miss her a lot and want to try and make things work. From what i've read on other posts, the roller coaster is pretty common. Anyways, thanks for the suggestions. I may try the letters- I do tell her I care for her still, and forgive her, and understand how and why the affair happened. Sometimes I wonder if maybe she still sees him secretely- like more secret than before, cause he was married, and also happens to be a coworker.....

Call for MB telephone marriage counseling .... and/or go to a marriage building weekend together.

People can LEARN to improve their communication skills.

This is FIXABLE .... it takes effort (and some $$$ too), but, you should *go all the way* when it comes to repairing your marriage ... with a woman you obviously love so much!

Why not move back in together? It would save financially and you could afford MB counseling that way. (scroll this page all the way to the top. Just below the "S" of the big red "Marriage Builders" logo, click on "counsel")

I'd like you to imagine one of your kids on the brink of death in the ER. That child needs emergency medical care to live. What would you tell the ER staff to do? You'd say; "DO WHATEVER IT TAKES!" to save the life of your child. Apply that same energy to saving the life of your family/marriage.

Your family, your marriage need CPR.

Don't be lazy, dont be frightened, don't be impatient, don't be selfish ..... do things that are difficult, that are personally challenging, that are loving and brave.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hi Ab,

How are you doing? Good to see you reading and learning....also you have been getting help from some really good MB supporters. Take their suggestions seriously.

Let us know how you are doing, ok?

L.

I'm really trying to "Do Whatever It Takes". Being a guy, it has really been a lesson in learning to put pride aside and follow my heart. It only took me about six months to realize that my marriage meant so much to me, and the affair wasn't the problem, it was just a result. I suppose i've had affairs for ywears with all the sports and such i'm involved in. For years, it was my business. Since, it's been playing hockey and surfing. I've ignored her EN's and can see that so clearly now. Don't get me wrong, cause it was vice versa as well. I've been reading the His Needs Her Needs and it really is an excellent souce of enlightening. I'd started reading Men are From MArs which is real similar. Just keep pulling for me- I've set a counseling appt for us on 6/19, which was the first date available. This is through my church- she doesn't attend, and doesn't have much of a spiritual belief. I've only been seeking god since november.... Is this a good place for counseling? I've thought about the phone counseling offered from MB. Would that be a better idea? My wife has read some of the material here- she may even read these posts... I sent her the link about a month ago, and she said the material made a lot of sense, and helped her see why things happened. I don't know what that means, but she did agree to a counseling appt. since then.... Thanks for everyones help! I love you guys!!

Hi AB,

Good to hear from you. I am still at work so I will make this short.....

I would say a good MC is good. Phone counseling with Steve or Jennifer is great. They are located in the MN state (not sure where you are). Whatever gives you the support you need.

It is good you are seeing where you can improve and are reading. This will certainly pay off.

You have a ways to go so keep up with the homework!!! I read for 5 hours straight when I found MB. Would have read longer but I had to go to work the next day!!!

Anyways..... keep posting and take care, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
L.

Hey Orchid, and all who've responded and offered hope... Just had a long telephone conv. with the W. We talked about all kinds of stuff- feelings, what we've been experiencing, and where we're at. She basically told me she's searched herself, and just feels no chance for us to try and reconcile. Everything has died within her- she can't try again. All she sees is the hoplessness, and the other side of the rainbow. What can I do? I can't convince her to try- I supported everything she said, and told her I understand what she's saying, and her feelings were okay. I'm trying no matter what to give her the space to choose what she wants, and the more space she has, the further away she gets.... Is there anyhting else I can do? Should I be patient longer? She told me she's dated, done the things SHE wanted to do ect..... IS this over and I need to get a clue? As much as I want this marriage to work, I need to move on when it really is over. Am I beating a dead horse? Enlighten me.....

Me- M 11y- betrayed spouse
2 Kids 9/ 7
d day 9/02
recovering and enduring since......

Hi Ab,

Right now she does not want to have an R or M with you. She appears to even be willing to lose her family.

What about you? Are you willing to lose your family or are you the children a 1 package deal?

Once you decide that, then you will be better able to know your plan of action.

She is not in a position to listen or even hear reason so right now don't waste those precious heartfelt words on her. Focus on you and the children. You all need a lot of loving care and support right now..... be there for them and let them be there for you. She will see her family pulling together while she pulls away.

From what I have seen in the past many a mother/wife that is a WS can get real ugly in their behavior. What you thought was not possible is the painful reality. The saving grace for the family is how well they can be prepared. So learn how to build your support groups and MB can help. Work with an MC/IC for you and the children. Reassure the children that you love them and will not leave them.

How's your reading coming along?

take care,
L.
PS: U R not beating a dead horse...... limping horse maybe but not dead. It needs care.

Actually the kids live with me four to five days a week- her schedule, which I am totally fine with. That was one of the huge problems I ws feeling when we first seperated, cause I am a very involved dad. WS maoved out, lived with her mom for four months, and has now had her own place for four months. She's used all our savings and bought new furniture. I'm living in our house, and the kids are with me most of the time. She is still very active in thier lives, but I think as time has gone on shes focusing more and more on herself and making herself happy- which is fine. Financially, she probably makes a little more than I do with her bonuses- but all of that is worked out. Shes got what she wants from the house, and we're both happy with custody. The kids have taken all this in stride- they seem to be doing okay. We talked a lot about it ( me n kids) when this was first happenong, and I always talk good about thier mom to them. They've adapted really well. The last few years, our marriage was so sterile- we did almost everything seperately, so really it's not a huge change for the kids. They both still do wonderful in school, and we've noticed little to no behavioral problems. I spend a lot of time with my kids, so I really think they're okay. But am I? Should I NOT think this marriage is over? How can it have any chance if shes wanting so much to live her single life? You know, shes convinced of some fairy tale love out there- shes gonna meet this perfect guy that loves everything she does and they'll live happily ever after. I told her though I supported her, no matter what she decided, and I would always be here fro her no matter what. I did everything I could to make myself a source of relief rather than pain in our conversation last night. IT seems no matter what I do though, shes done. I'm gonna be okay- still reading the book- gotta fix me cause although the marriage didn't work, I still need repair to offer something positive to any future relationship. Thanks all!

Click on the link in my signature line and pay close attention to the Plan A/Plan B links. Start Plan A. That will help her feelings for you start to come back. Also read the counseling links. There are good church counselors and bad ones, just like secular counselors. If she does agree to counseling, you need to make sure you have a competent counselor. The fact that she has given up is not unusual. It is not the final nail in the coffin, however, unless you let it be. I cannot guarantee you a way to convince her to re-join the marriage. Plan A, possibly followed by plan B, is your best bet to persuade her, though.

I believe I have been following the Plan A stuff for a while. I try to keep away from the LB's and only give her support and caring. What has this done to our relationship? Well, nothing. She just feels so set on moving on. She says it is very difficult for her, but she just cannot come back and try again. I've tried inviting her to spend time with the kids and I- very informal things, like McDonalds after the ball game, or BBQ on a Sunday afternoon with us. I haven't suggested anything that would be just her and I, cause I know right now that would be awakward for her. What else can I do? OR is this it, and I just maintain this pace? How long can the Betryed spouse give before they are so totally void of emotion any longer? I can't keep giving and giving, with nothing return. Ya know, even the betryed one has EN's. How are mine met? I have dated quite a bit, actually, and quite about six weeks ago when I found this site and decided I wanted to try and reconcile. Now I feel since all seems so hopeless, it's time to date again. I know thats not a good idea, but really, I do have a need to feel special as well. Whats a guy to do? I'm a good guy, and I know I have a lot to offer- even more now that i'm trying to learn about relationships, I think futute relationships will be much more rewarding- but I refer it be with my wife. Well, enough rambling; I know so many others here are now or have experienced these exact feelings. Thanks for your words.....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Withdrawal

In: What Are Plan A and Plan B?, Plan A is described as a strategy for separating a spouse from a lover, but it is also a strategy for bringing someone out of withdrawal. Gary Smalley has written a lot on the subject as well (see chapter 6 of “Love is a Decision” for example), though he calls it: "Opening a closed spirit". Gottman, another great author on marriage, relates several stories where reminiscing about good times in the past helped inspire a spouse to try again. This can work (hey, it’s worth a shot), but in deep withdrawal, your spouse may have re-written history to the point that there are no memories of good times in the past.

When “Plan A-ing” a spouse in withdrawal, you will probably not see any immediate appreciation for your efforts at changing. Don't get discouraged, this is normal. Harley says that people are never COMPLETELY in withdrawal - there are always little windows of opportunity where they are receptive. People in withdrawal sort of "stick their heads out of their shell" and look around every once in a while, but you may be totally unaware of it when it happens. So, it is important that your Plan A be consistent, so that when your spouse opens that window, they see the new you.

Plan A may actually make your spouse angry, because if they have decided there is no hope, for you to do things which challenge their point of view is upsetting. This is actually a good sign, and shows they are noticing the changes, even if it does not feel like it at the time.

In order to do an effective Plan A, you should read about Love Busters and Emotional Needs on this site, including the Q&A’s columns How to Meet Emotional needs and How to Overcome Love Busters. The two major reasons a person leaves a marriage, either virtually by withdrawal, or literally by divorce, is due to neglect (not fulfilling Emotional Needs) or due to abuse/control issues (Love Busters).

Your withdrawn spouse is either not trusting you to care for them (meet EN's) or is not trusting you to protect them (avoid LB's), or both. The concept on this site that REALLY helps with trust issues (and is: The Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA), so read up on that, too. Yes, it's radical, and yes it's harder to implement if the other person doesn't want to participate, but your situation calls for radical solutions, and easy is not an option for you right now. You can use the POJA unilaterally in as much as you understand your spouse’s motivations, likes and dislikes. In most cases where a husband or wife is in withdrawal, their spouse has some serious gaps in their understanding of the husband’s or wife’s likes, dislikes and motivations, so this is partly a challenge to try to understand your spouse better. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As long as you expect a response from her for your efforts, you will be fustrated.

abacadabraincali,
I have dated quite a bit, actually, and quite about six weeks ago when I found this site and decided I wanted to try and reconcile. Now I feel since all seems so hopeless, it's time to date again.
Dating while married? Hmmm? That shows the spouse you want to remain married.

So your marriage is only worth 6 weeks of not dating someone else?

Why the need to date?

I agree, john, that the basis for all our problems is I didn't meet her EN's, and the LB's were definitely both ways. We definitely know how to set each other off. The EN's and SF are so closely related, from what i've read in His Needs Her Needs. The book is giving me new insight on how and whu=y we're here, and that is part of whats given me hope that this could work. But without her, it's not gonna happen. So, Plan A is maintaining a positive attitude and working on myself, and trying to meet her EN's s much as I can. I know the dating thing is a dumb idea, and i'm over it- just a fleeing thought- The dating I did before was cause I really thought it was over, and she knew all about it, and really didn't care (I don't think). I will read up on the EN's and LB's, and the JPA or whatever its called... Thanks!

We definitely know how to set each other off
This is a bonus in that since you know how to set her off, you know how to NOT set her off (LB's).

The EN's and SF are so closely related
SF (sexual fulfillment) is one of the EN's (emotional needs) so they are the same thing.

So, Plan A is maintaining a positive attitude and working on myself, and trying to meet her EN's s much as I can.
BINGO!
Remember marriage is all about give & take. Plan A is all about being in giver mode and not expecting anything in return. Eventually, the plan is to draw your spouse back into the marriage. Plan A is learning behaviors which are benficial to relationships. This does not mean you do EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING for the ws.

I will read up on the EN's and LB's, and the JPA or whatever its called...
EN - Emotional Needs
LB - Lovebusters
POJA - Policy of Joint Agreement

Read the links in my signature below.

Is sending her a note daily, or weekly, to let her know i'm thinking about her okay? When does it become annoying to her? What steps do I take to initiate contact?

If you were “happily” married, would you send her a note every day or every week?

A note every week at the most is enough. Keep it light and short. No begging, pleading, etc.

Do things which you will continue to do forever. Plan A is not simply doing everything possible to “win” back your spouse.