We have been married 15 years and I found out recently that my husband has been seeing my best friend of 23 years. It started back in February and believe me I sensed something was wrong. When I asked him he said everything was ok, it continued to build and we fought more frequently. In the mean time she was calling me more (I now know to get info). To make a long story short, I confronted them both after one of my husbands co workers wives called me to tell me about their relationship. They both denied it and my husband said that they were just trying to mess with him as was going to work for one of his customers. Soon everything escalated, my husband had gone from, I love you to I dont know if I am in love with you, to I love you as the mother of my children, to I never loved you, then that I was his best friend... his girl, finally telling me that he has fallen in and out of love with me several times. When I confirmed the affair, I asked him to leave and have made NO contact with her.

He claims to have "feelings" for her but will not say he loves her. Yet, he continues to tell me he is getting a divorce. Our kids are devastated, this friend of mine was very close to them she was 2 out of 4 kids god mother. I dont know what to do at this point. She has convinced him that I never loved him, treated him badly, I am turning his children against him (he makes no attempt to see them) etc.

He called me Tuesday and asked me if I would ever let another man tell me not to talk to him and also asked me if we got divorced and I was with someone and he came to me and asked me to take him back would I. I told him the truth..
I didnt know. He is hostile 95% of the time with me. He constantly tries to pick a fight with me. When he is hostile, he always tells me that I dont care or that I am trying to "screw" him. I refuse to go off on him.

He also denies that they have had sex. This may be an emotional affair .. I am so confused, my heart is telling me he is lying, They are together all the time, so he has had no time to be by himself.

What should I do ???

Ouch! Your H seems to be spewing the typical WS talk. Be patient and the MB vets will come give you great counsel. In the meantime read all the MB concepts, other threads, and take care of yourself. tew

Mmmm...

He sounds like he is in the traditional fog. He is probably trying to pick a fight with you because he feels guilty over what he has done - he wants to blame you. Good for you for not fighting with him. This is his defending his rationalizations - don't go there with him.

Are you going to counseling alone? I think you need the support. I am so sorry you are going through this.

Is he living with the other woman now? You said they are together all of the time. But he called you and asked if you'd take him back? Is he trying to reconcile with you? I am not sure I understand.

Can you tell your husband this (just a thought): You can come home if you 1) Break all contact with this woman 2) Get individual counseling because I see some instability in you, and 3) agree to attend marital counseling.

You can also ask him to prove he didn't have sex - to take a lie detector test at his own expense. That should shut him up if he is lying - because if he agrees to take one, follow through with the test. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You can also tell him to go to http://www.aftertheaffair.net to get their ebook (it's really cheap) because it tells him how to fix this mess and addresses the way he treats you now - it's specifically for the WS and it tells them much about accepting responsibility for their behavior and choices. I don't think he'd be offended by the book -- it is very kind but ultra firm.

Also - I found this free ebook about forgiveness online (but I haven't read it yet) that might help you at http://www.bruderhof.org/e-books/WhyForgive.htm MB has lots of articles you can read and I just found this site that has lots of articles 2: http://www.heartrelationships.com/ARTICLES/articles.htm

Also, a couple of good things to remember right now: take good care of yourself physically. Get plenty of rest - eat well. Do not blame yourself for your husband's selfishness. DO not beat yourself up because you didn't know what was going on sooner - you are supposed to be able to trust your spouse. Love yourself and your kids. It doesn't seem like it right now - but you will get through this.

I am so sorry for your pain.

I immediatly put me and ou sons into counseling. They HATE him and went as far as to tell him that to his face. No, he did not ask if I would take him back he asked if we were divorced and I had met someone and THEN he came to me and asked me to take him back would I? By the way he was bawling when he was having this conversation with me.

He doesnt want me right now, He cannot tell me that he loves me and he cannot tell me that he loves her, all I get is that he has "feelings" for her.

I dont know if he is staying with her, he refuses to tell me where he is, one day he says he is in a hotel, then next he says he is sleeping in his car. I have done a drive by her house and did not see his car..

I did write him a letter and tell him that I want to work our marriage out and that I could forgive and forget, but that he needed to move home, he refuses to come home, and constantly says he is looking at apartments ( he has no money ) but gets paid today.

Yesterday he came by our house and just looked at everything, it was weird, it was like he was looking for something, but not.

He also knows that I will NEVER EVER forgive her and never want to see her again.

When he tells me that I hate him, I always tell him no I dont I love you. And whats weird is that I dont, considering I know who it is and what kind of manipulator she is (its her 3rd affair all resulting in divorce), I know he is wrong, but I also know that she gained information from me and turned it to discredit me. She told him things that were not true about us.

I dont know, he seems to be handling this better than me.

I am so sorry that you have to be here, but there is no better place for support and education on how to handle this and have a chance to restore your marriage - in fact make it better than it was. Click on the link in my signature line. Pay particular attention to the Plan A/Plan B links.

I AM SO SORRY! Your story is way more close to mine than I care to admit. I Have yet to post my full story for so many reasons..I know the pain of watching the kids, I know the lieing the friend did to ws, I know what its like to feel as if youve lost the 2 people closest to you. Im not a t a place to give advice on this. All I want to do is tell yu I am sorry someone has to go thru things like this. So much pain and confusion.I am currently trying to get the nerve to do my post but yours hit so close to home I wantted to give you a {hug} and tell you , you will be in my prayers,

OK...this one is a rough one, because you are suffering from a double betrayal. It is completely normal for you to be feelings whatever emotions happen to be in the forefront at the time. You will go from one emotion (say rage) to another (say crying) in a split second...this is NORMAL!!!!

It's likely that if your H is unwilling to tell you were he is "hanging his hat" then just accept that he is likely hanging it on her bedpost. Sorry, I know that hurts, but to deny it will only hurt worst when the truth comes out. Most men do not leave a marriage unless they have already enjoyed the "comfort" of the "driver of the get-away car". Do not let your own desire to avoid this fact blindside you later.

As for this conversation you had with him...typical WS "speak"...lots of confusion, mixed messages and fence sitting. While we would all like to be able to grap them by the collar and shake them till their head rattles...we can't.

He's wanting reassurance that you'll "be there" when and if he decides things aren't going so smoothly where he is at. He wants a "safety net" of his marriage to come back to, if he finds that the "grass is definitely no greener" where he chose to be. It's unlikely that he's having a wonderful time where he is. His OW is going to be suspicious of any contact he has with you and will be terrified that he'll return home...which is what most WS do.

OK...now the first thing to remember is that most marriages do not end because of an affair...even if our WS run us through the wringer before figuring out they really want to be home with spouse and family. Second thing to remember, is that his affair has been in the shadows of his life part-time, apart from the daily grind that we all must live with each and every day. He and his affair partner have been putting "their best foot forward" and ignoring all those little irrations which come from living in the real world. Most affairs end within six months...even if not discovered. They tend to end even faster if discovered and forced into the light of day. (But beware, once forced from the shadows, the affair partners may feel as if they must join forces as in "us against everyone else". And most hate to have to come home and admit they made a mistake.)

Of course, not all affairs end with the MP returning home...some affair partners end up together, altho the success rate of these relationships are much worse then that of a relationship starting out in the normal fashion.

I was pleased to hear that you and your children are in counseling. Have you found a good pro-marriage individual counselor for yourself? Be sure and validate your childrens feelings of anger and rage. While at the same time explaining that they must still be responsible for their actions. (Kids often began to act out in ways that are counter-productive and destructive so be careful and firm but kind...set firm limits on their actions.) Talk to them honestly, but do not be afraid to tell them that some things are personal and you will keep details to yourself. Depending on the children ages...you must precede as you feel is most beneficial for the kids.

It's great that you are not allowing him to "push your buttons" and getting into major arguements which will only leave both of you feeling worse. Now is the time to keep as calm as possible. Plan! Use your head and do those things which will make you feel more peace. Look over Plan A on this site, it's set up to make the WS forcus on ourselves and the positives in the marriage...even if at the moment it can be hard to see them...but they are there.

Waiting for a WS to get their "head out of their
"@$$!" is not an easy time...and sadly they may only discover that's where they've placed it after the BS has moved on and began a life without the WS. But...if you wish to stay married, do not give up hope. Most marriages survive.

Since you've got children...it is important that you speak to a lawyer and discover your rights and responsibilities in your state. This is NOT divorce talk...but you need to know what is what...before you are faced with making a decision without full knowledge of your legal rights.

Sorry...but considering what you said about this "friends" past background...you need to talk to your family doctor and be honest and have tests for any STD's. I know this is something none of us wish to think about...but you have children whose future you must protect...and you are that future...protect yourself and them.

Good Luck...keep posting and we'll do our best to support what ever decisions you make for your future.

OUCH!! I can relate to your pain!!! My H had an A with my own sister (who also has had several A's during her M!). And like you I still love my H and can not forgive her! I was betrayed by 2 people I loved, but for my own sister to be able to stab me in the back is too hard for me to fathom! My H was stupid to do it, but what makes it worse for me is the fact that my sister set out to do this... telling him I was a terrible wife, a b*tch, a terrible mother, and he was too good for me and deserved someone better!!! (I was told all this by my sisters H!)

Be strong, and read EVERYTHING you can on this board... it really saved my sanity!!!

My H and I are over 12 months into recovery, and we are stronger than ever... I have yet to hear anything from my sister!!!

{{{{{{{{BIG HUGS}}}}}}}}}}
-mc

To MC Needs:

I am just curious but why in the hell does your brother in law stay with your sister since she has cheated on him numerous times and now with her own sister's husband?

You've gotten some great advice already. I just wanted to let you know that I too, had to live with the double betrayal, as my stbxH had an A with a (so-called) friend of mine (she was one of 3 at the time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). So I know the pain of that. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

It's over 2 yrs since d-day, and OW#1 is, well, I really don't know! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I told her H of the A, and he chose to stay in denial over it, and needless to say, the friendship ended then and there.

As far as my H and I, yes, we did enter recovery, so it IS possible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Granted... my situation may not be the best example, as my H is a sex addict, and is currently facing charges of child pornography possession!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (I am the one who turned in the evidence to the police).

No doubt, you have been put in a terrible predicament. You've become a single parent, practically out of the blue, and must deal with your own issues, as well as support the kids. It's hard work. And you've made an EXCELLENT start by attending counselling so fast! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Kudos to you on that one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Focus on YOU right now. No, do not be selfish like your H and have a revenge A... that'll only make things worse (and trust me, you WILL consider it). But find out what things about you can be changed. What have you neglected to do for yourself in recent years? With 4 children, there is NO DOUBT that you've forgotten to put some of your needs first... so now is the time to do that. Do you miss bubble baths? Start taking them again. How about art classes? Why not sign up for one? Do you play an instrument? Pick it up again. Feel like redecorating? Maybe start with your bathroom?

Do things to keep yourself busy. Read on here as much as you can. Fill out the Emotional Needs questionnaires too... perhaps your H will fill out one too? That way you can more easily work at fulfilling his EN's to assist you in your Plan A. If he won't fill it out... then be honest and true to fact... and fill it out for him. Then base your plan A efforts towards him on your results (hint: think of the "little things" he's said over the years... the things that you could "read between the lines" on... THOSE will give you most of your areas to improve on, in his eyes).

Take care,

Karen

bryabp -- my BIL is an idiot... Sorry if that sounds rude, but like I said... she has done this to him soooo many times, and he puts up with it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
-mc

Well things have gone to worse. Yesterday our middle son and 3 other friends stole someones go-kart. (last week our eldest son was suspended for throwing paint balls on the gym floor) I tried to call my husband and as usual he didnt answer.

I had about 45 minutes before I would find out if the son was going to be arrested. I finally got him and quickly explained that our son and 3 friends had stolen this go-kart, the parents were making them return it and it would be the owners choice to press charges or not and would he please come, that we needed him and that the son was scared.

His woman, started in on him in the background, he became hostile to me and I SNAPPED! I started yelling at him and it was bad, we were hanging up on each other and then SHE called me. So I went off on her. I ended up yelling at him all the way to the peoples house (go-kart) and finally hung up on him. He refused to come and it mad me soooo mad that I flipped. I have tried to let it bounce but this was the final straw.

WHY couldnt he just be there once for these kids when they needed him?

So as we got back he pulled up and it started again. I was yelling, he was yelling, I told him to leave. He refused, my son tried closing the door on him and he came in saying this was still his house. (he has rented an apartment now) so I fire back that the onlything that was his was the signature on a peice of paper. He left.

I woke up at 4 am and wrote a email to her... My friend, letting out all the pain and the feelings that were inside of me. And reminding her of her own past and morals. NO cussing ... I sent it to him and to her (that way there are no lies) He calls, then she calls.

I feel like I am done.. Bot of them got hung up on.

I feel so much better, but now like a load of bricks have been removed, but I am mad at myself for allowing it to happen. This is what they wanted and they got it, but I had gotten to a point were if I did not tell them both exactly how sick they were to me that I would explode!!

I just think I should stop communicating with him .

c,

What is happening here is kind of normal considering your situation.

I suggest you read and read some more about the concepts of plan a and plan b on this site.

The fighting and LBing has got to stop on your side. I hate to be tough, but you have to understand that your WS is in the fog and will not be there for the kids right now. And the kids are acting out because of all this upheaval in their lives.

MVHO is not to fight. You cannot make your WS be there for you or kids right now. If you want to save your marriage, find out all that you need to do to fulfill WS's Emotional needs and go for a plan A if you can.

As for your ex-best friend. No more contact with her. No more phone conversations, etc. What you are doing will push WS closer to her.

Try to be a good girl and read read read this site. Start doing a plan A. WS has been abducted by aliens and been told a bunch of lies by someone who knows you well and has used whatever info she has to betray you to get yet ANOTHER married man to leave his wife. Be wise, use the knowledge that you have to your advantage. You know who she is and what she does. Use that info to help your plan. No more phone calls or contact with ow. It won't help your cause. Be the opposite of what ow says you are.

I know it is so hard to deal with kids when you are on your own and have no support, and it isn't even what you did that is making them act that way. I have been there big time, for 2 years with my daughter acting out, anger, etc. Just try to be supportive to them, love them and tell them you understand that this is a hard time for them. You are their rock right now. WS has been abducted. Don't trash WS to kids.

I don't know what else to tell you, will be praying for you. If you can't cope, go to Dr. and get something to help even out your emotions. This is not a bad thing. You are going thru a bad time right now, and if you are falling apart, like I did, getting help with meds is a healthy thing to do.

Good luck and {{{{{hugs}}}}}}!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

hi
Do you really want him back?I don't think you did anything wrong, telling him how you felt. I think he was expecting it..to keep it inside you will make you implode and that is worse for you.

I know that some believe not to spew..but hey if you don't spew at them you are going to take it out on the kids when they do something wrong they will get it double..do you know what I mean..it will be transfered to them because it has to come out someplace and if you don't get it out then your filling your body with poison.take a pillow or buy your son a punching bag, I am sure he will use it for his hostility he is going to develop towards good ole dad..he can take it out on that instead of someone at school..or in the house..

but I would really give lots of thought to taking him back..I think your friend was no friend..that is so sad for you..and your husband those two did the lowest thing to you.. but if your thinking about taking him back..maybe tell him no contact with her starting now..but keeping her away will be the hard part..
I will be praying for you..I am so angry and I don't even know any of you..this makes me so
anggggrrrrrryyyy...grrrrrrr...
oh well..Keep on keeping on..(I will be praying

Do I want him back??? Right now its a yes/no answer. Yes, I want him back so that we can at least try to save our marriage now that I know what the problem is and considering I know who and what she is. I am in love with him and cant turn that emotion off. Its weird, I still cant feel any hate towards him... anger yes, hate no.

Then no, because of his actions after he left. He has said some very hurtful things... going as far as to accuse me of sleeping with a friend of ours that was acting as a mediator between us. Then there is the way he just "forgot" about our children. He had always told me that they came first and then told them after he left that he would be there for them all they had to do was page him and he would come. He has broken every promise he has made to us since he left.

But then when we are talking or arguing, and he still calls me his pet names, or does things that he did when he lived with me, like opening my purse grabbing a lighter and putting it back. Its like it is repetiton for him and he doesnt even know he is doing it. Or he will look at me like he just doesnt know what to do. Like a scared kid.

I think right now we just need a time out, no contact. He has not had time to miss me or our children. So I will just not contact him for now and see what happens.

Our sons could care less at this point, they have so much resentment built up towards him that they never want to se him.

Things are going so bad right now, that I dont even know if they can be turned around. Husband is completly conviced that EVERYTHING is my fault. He still denies he is having an affair even though they are together every waking moment. He refuses to comunicate with our children and has resolved himself that "I have turned them against him" which is entirely not true. I have yet to say one bad thing against him to the kids.

I had a melt down yesterday after talking with him, I cannot take the verbal abuse and hostility anymore, I cried for 5 hours. I have made myself an appointment to go to counciling by myself.

My heart hurts.. I dont even know this person anymore, and the person he is right now... I just dont like him.

He is unhealthy for me and I am taking a break. No communication unless absolutly necessary.

You and I could almost get together and mess our lives and they would be the same.I wouldnt wish this on anyone.Dont give him anything to argue about.She is feeding him, she knows you both very well and knows the buttons to push.I say that because I know mine did.I had minimal contact for a short period wrote her off told both of them I would not have her in my life. Hi I had no choice her I did as far as I was concerned. Funny thing is as time passed and I worked on me, he took notice and things got real ugly with her. Still are. IM thinking of you.You and your kids are in my prayers, so is your husband, that he will wake up before so much damage is done he cant repair. My kids to hold resentment but as a family we are working on it daily.

hi again.

I was thinking about you and asking God to help you with your pain and confusion.

He made it clear HE is not a God of confusion.
that we know where the confusion is coming from.

I think like when my hubby use to mess up.
I would lay in bed wondering HOW can they be comfortable enough after all these years to be able to do this to us..betray us..

they have got to have gone crazy or snapped or something..my husband use to also get that STUPID SCARED LITTLE 8 YEAR OLD LITTLE BOY LOOK ON HIS FACE...grrrr..and If I talked at that time when he would be around he would take his ball and bat and act like a spoiled brat and go, just leave..he said he didn't know where he was going..he did..know..I just was not told..
I use to get so fed up at times I would just go to bed and not wait up any more..I use to have diner ready...so we could eat with the kids..but no hubby..kids crying hungry..so they eat and save desert till dad comes home..so they go to bed and I promise to wake them when he comes in..they missed him so much..he just didn't get it..they needed to see daddy and know he is there..sense his prescence by his touch and seeing him feeling kissing...geeee..but then in he comes..and wants to go to bed..not hungry so I knew he ate..he worked IBM at this time and wore a suit..so he was already for dates..what ever..always saying he was working..but He had alcohol on his breath...and they frowned on drinking..so not sure where he was..but just guessed..

so I know the pain of wondering who, and when will or if he will be back.
but we didn't have marriage builders back then
now you do so make sure you put the things taught into practice because I heard from people that it works..even from people who just got the books and did it on their own..with their spouse I have a girlfriend who has done it..and are ok..better then before..

how are the kids doing??

take care and keep on keeping on..wanted you to know I am thinking of you... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks for asking ... the kids are doing alot better than I am. They still hate their dad, but know that he made the decision to be where he is and as long as he is with her they refuse to even try to see his side since he does not contact them. He told me that he isnt going to try because I have already "filled" their heads and they wont listne to reason anyway. Its really sad that he is that selfish and inconsiderate if their feelings. I never in my wildest dreams thought that this man would ever put another person before his children, but I was wrong.

Today he has been gone a month and I am having major anxiety, I jsut want to lay down and cry. I am trying to keep my mind off it but I keep thinking about him and it is very unsettling.

We went to group last night and that was very helpful, we discussed anger and how we deal with it and I learned alot about myself. My oldest son even said he enjoyed it to. So I guess we took a step forward last night.

Our daughter has gone 2 days without mentioning her Daddy, and thats good. She actually slept the whole night and never woke up asking for him.

My thoughts do keep running towards him and I always wonder if he thinks about me personally and our family and if he has any regrets about what he has done.

I am going out tommorrow night with friends and that will be the first "official" time that I have go out,I am looking forward to it but I am very scared. I havent been out by myself in 16 years.

Thanks for your encouragement, you dont know how much it means.

Well today is fathers day and I gues its ahrd day for you and the kids. While I was at church this morning the pastor preached on what a father was. Awesom message. Not your typical hallmark definition.
i am thinking of getting the notes from th eservice and posting for some to read. Love yourself, love oyur kids, the rest will follow.
How was you rnight out? Kids ventting about dad???That doesnt happen real fast, its been over a year and ours still have things they work on...