Whenever the topic of Islam is brought up among Westerners, it has been my experience that the first objection that immediately springs into their minds is: "But women are so extremely oppressed in Islam."
And, "But women are second class citizens in Islam." For example, they see that Muslim women usually observe modest standards in their clothing and they automatically equate their modesty with oppression.
They appear to feel that freedom is in some way directly proportional to how little clothing one wears, and that oppression is directly proportional to the degree of modesty one exhibits in their clothing. Although this topic does not directly relate to the main topic, still it seems inevitable to touch on this subject even if only very briefly due to it's importance.
The problem is twofold: First of all, those people who make such objections usually only have a very superficial knowledge of what the true teachings of Islam, and secondly, they do not realize what The Bible requires of all believing women.
I was once passing through Canada with my parent's in law and their family. As we walked down the street a Canadian Christian girl (in her late teens to early twenties) passed by us with a group of her friends. She looked at my mother in law who was dressed in modest clothing and had a large scarf wrapped around her head such that only her face was showing. She then stopped my mother in law and said words to the effect of: "Why do you allow your men to oppress you? Why do you wear these clothes?"
Now, my mother in law is a university graduate, a straight a student, highly respected by her peers, and gainfully employed as an inspector of the public educational system back in my home country. My mother in law has also distinguished herself in her study of the English language and it's grammatical structure.
However, she did not have an extensive working knowledge of American and Canadian pronunciation and slang, and thus, she missed the tone with which this question was delivered to her.
I decided to move a reasonable distance away and let her handle this situation herself. My mother in law was very happy to answer this girl's question and went on to explain to her about our religion and customs and how we prefer to dress modestly, and that Allah Almighty requires us to do this. However, this was not the answer this girl was looking for so she retorted: "Thanks for sharing!" then spun around and stormed off.
Now, in my home country, our elders are quite used to being highly respected by those who are younger than them and being served by them. For this reason, it did not even occur to my mother in law that this question could have been anything more than a young girl respectfully asking an innocent question of a trusted elder, and I hated to tell her otherwise. I would have hated for her to leave Canada thinking that all Canadians or all Christians speak this way to their elders since I know that this is not the true case. However, this episode did indeed sadden me.
Many non-Muslims feel sorry for any Muslim women they see adorned in their modest clothing. They feel that they are deprived the freedom to roam around in more scant and revealing clothing. Anyone who lives in a manner other that which they have become accustomed to is seen by them to be oppressed and forced to live in this manner. There are certain tribes in the Amazon jungle, in Australia, and in Africa, which have become accustomed to walking around in a simple g-string around their waist. What would the people of the West say if these people were to condemn the Western habit of "forcing" their women to wear "excessive amounts of clothing" and to demand that all women in the west immediately stop wearing anything but the simplest g-string around their waist? What if they were to say that the Western society should immediately stop unjustly persecuting their women and preventing them from freely roaming the streets wearing only a pair of socks? They would say that the people making these demands have no morals or shame. Philosophers would have a field day with such a question.
What if someone were to claim that it was immoral, discriminatory, and unjust to separate men and women indifferent public bathrooms just as it is not just to do so with blacks and whites. What if this person were to then call (in the interest of equality, fairness, and constitutional freedom of course) for a merging of men and women's bathrooms into one "unisex" or "equal-opportunity" bathrooms for both men and women? Once again, the philosophers would have a field day. Anyone who follows the news will see that this may indeed be where the USA is now headed. In the New York Post (31 Aug. 1994 or a little before) it was reported that women have now won the right to appear topless in the New York subway system. Where will the USA be a few years from now? That is anyone's guess.
Who has the power to determine what is decent and modest clothing? Who is to determine what is decent
and modest behavior? Muslims assign this right to God alone. This is the essence of "Islam." "Islam" means "The submission to the will of God." What God commands, a Muslim does. They do not demand that God justify his commands before they accept them. Once they have verified that a command is indeed from God then they abide by it without hesitation.
We can indeed find this lesson in the story of Adam. In the Islamic version of the story of Adam (slightly different than that of Judaism/Christianity), Adam and Eve were created by God, educated, clothed, and then allowed to inhabit heaven. God told them that they could have anything their hearts desired except they must not eat from the tree. Out of envy, the devil encouraged them to eat from the tree and told them that its fruit would make them angles or immortal. They ate from the tree and immediately, their bodies were revealed to one another, so they took to scooping up the leaves off the trees in order to cover themselves. This is when Allah sent them down to earth. What mankind learned from this lesson is that just because a person does not know the wisdom behind a command of God, and others tell him to disobey it, then if they do not abide by it, by the time the reason for the command is made apparent to them it may be too late.
Example of dress worn by a Christian nun.
Compare it with how Muslim women dress today
Well then, what is the Biblical view on these matters? Actually, even in this day and age there still remain traces in Christianity of the common ancestry with Islam with regard to the accepted norms of modest dress for Christian women as ordained by her Creator. In the above figure we have an example of the sort of dress codes observed by Christian nuns. We are strangely amazed to find that it is almost the striking similarity it bears to the sort of outfit, which most Muslim women wear. Why is that? Well, although there are quite a number of very pronounced differences between Biblical and Qur'anic laws in this regard, let us start with the

Biblical view:
What the New Testament has to say:
1 Timothy 2:11-14 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
1 Corinthians 11:5-10: "But every woman that prayeth or prophesied with her head uncovered dishonored her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman were not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it were a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch, as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels."
1 Corinthians 11:13: "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God (with her head) uncovered?"
What the Old Testament has to say:
Genesis 3:12-16 "And the man (Adam) said, the woman (Eve) whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the woman, what is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, the serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
Leviticus 12:2-5 "Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, if a woman have conceived seed, and born a MALE child: then she shall be unclean SEVEN DAYS; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying THIRTY THREE days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. But if she bear a FEMALE child, then she shall be unclean TWO WEEKS, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying SIXTY SIX days."
Ecclesiastics 7:26-28 "And I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare.... while I was still searching but not finding, I found one upright man among a thousand but not one upright woman among them all".
Leviticus 15:19-30 "And if a woman have an issue (her period/menses), [and] her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever touched her shall be unclean until the even.
And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. And whosoever touched her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. And whosoever touched any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. And if it [be] on [her] bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he touched it, he shall be unclean until the even. And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean. And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she [shall be] unclean. Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation. And whosoever touched those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. But if she were cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean. And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And the priest shall offer the one [for] a sin offering, and the other [for] a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness."
SEE ALSO WOMEN IN THE BIBLE

In other words, the Bible teaches us that:
1.Women should learn in silence and subjugation.
2.Women should not teach.
3.Women should not have authority over men but should remain silent.
4.Adam and Eve were not equal in sin. Adam was not deceived but Eve was.
5.Women are commanded to be under obedience to men. God ordained that men should for all time rules over women
6.Women must keep silent in Churches. It is shameful for them to open their mouths therein. If they have a question they should ask their husbands before going to church and then their husbands will ask for them in the church.
7.A woman should neither pray nor profess with her head uncovered.
8.If a woman prays with her head uncovered then she might as well shave her head.
9.Man was created in the image and glory of God, and Woman was created in the glory of Man, thus Man must have power over her.
10.Any woman who delivers a male baby shall be unclean for one week. But any woman who delivers a female baby shall be unclean for TWO weeks. Thus, females make their mothers DOUBLY unclean as compared to males.
11.While it is possible to find one upright man in every thousand, it is impossible to find even one single upright woman in every thousand
12.Woman is a snare, her heart is a trap, and her hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but she will ensnare the sinner.
13.If a woman had her period and touches a chair or a bed or anything else then that item immediately becomes unclean. Anyone who then touches those things shall also become unclean. They must then bathe themselves and wash their clothes because they have touched an item that a monstrous woman has touched.
What the canonized saints of Christianity said about women:
"Woman is a daughter of falsehood, a sentinel of Hell, the enemy of peace; through her Adam lost paradise"
(St. John Demascene)
"Woman is the instrument which the devil uses to gain possession of our souls" (St. Cyprian)
"Woman is the fountain of the arm of the devil, her voice is the hissing of the serpent" (St. Anthony)
"Woman has the poison of an asp, the malice of a dragon" (St. Gregory)
St. Tertullian, while he was talking to his 'best beloved sisters' in the faith, he said, "Do you not know that
You are each an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the Devil's gateway: You are the unsealer of the forbidden tree: You are the first deserter of the divine law: You are she who persuaded him whom the devil wasn't valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God's image, man." Once again, St. Augustine wrote to a friend, "What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman."

Centuries later, St. Thomas Aquinas still considered women as defective, "As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence." (All these quotations can be found in Karen Armstrong's book, The Gospel According to Woman, London: Elm Tree Books, 1986, pp. 52-62. See also Nancy van Vuuren, The Subversion of Women as Practiced by Churches, tch-Hunters, and Other Sexists Philadelphia: Westminster Press pp.28-30.)
Orthodox Jewish men in their daily morning prayer recite, "Blessed be God King of the universe that Thou hasn’t made me a woman." The women, on the other hand, thank God every morning for "making me according to Thy will" (Then a Kendath, "Memories of an Orthodox youth" in Susannah Heschel, Ed. On being a Jewish Feminist, New York: Schocken Books, 1983, pp. 96-97)
According to the Jewish Talmud, "women are exempt from the study of the Torah." In the first century C.E., Rabbi Eliezer said: "If any man teaches his daughter Torah it is as though he taught her lechery" (Leonard J. Swidler, Women in Judaism: the Status of Women in Formative Judaism, Metuchen, N.J: Scarecrow Press, 1976, pp. 83-93)
According to Rabbi Dr. Menachem M. Brayer (Professor of Biblical Literature at Yeshiva University) in his book 'The Jewish woman in Rabbinic literature', it was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering which, sometimes, even covered the whole face leaving one eye free (Psychosocial Perspective, Hoboken, N.J: Ktav Publishing House, 1986, p. 239). He quotes some famous ancient Rabbis saying, "It is not like the daughters of Israel to walk out with heads uncovered" and "Cursed be the man who lets the hair of his wife be seen.... a woman who exposes her hair for self-adornment brings poverty." Rabbinic law forbids the recitation of blessings or prayers in the presence of a bareheaded-married woman
Since uncovering the woman's hair is considered "nudity" (Ibid. pp. 316-317. Also see Swidler, op. cit., pp. 121-123). Dr. Brayer also mentions, "During the Tannaitic period the Jewish woman's failure to cover her head was considered an affront to her modesty. When her head was uncovered she might be fined four hundred zuzim for this offense." Dr. Brayer also explains that veil of the Jewish woman wasn't always considered a sign of modesty. Sometimes, the veil symbolized a state of distinction and luxury rather than modesty. The veil personified the dignity and superiority of noble women. It, also, represented a woman’s inaccessibility as a sanctified possession of her husband (24. Ibid. p. 139). It is clear in the Old Testament that uncovering a woman's head was a great disgrace and that's why the priest had to uncover the suspected adulteress in her trial by ordeal (Numbers 5:16-18).
St. Tertullian in his famous treatise 'On The Veiling Of Virgins' wrote, "Young women, you wear your veils out on the streets, so you should wear them in the church, you wear them when you are among strangers, then wear them among your brothers..." Among the Canon laws of the Catholic Church today, there is a law that require women to cover their heads in church (Clara M. Henning, " Cannon Law and the Battle of the Sexes" in Rosemary R. Ruether, ed., Religion and Sexism: Images of Woman in the Jewish and Christian Traditions, New York: Simon and Schuster, 1974, p. 272.).
Some Christian denominations, such as the Amish and the Mennonites for example, keep their women veiled to the present day. The reason for the veil, as offered by their Church leaders, is "The head covering is a symbol of woman's subjection to the man and to God”: The same logic introduced by St. Paul in the New Testament (Donald B. Kraybill, The riddle of the Amish Culture, Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 1989, p. 56.)
Russian Orthodox women are expected to wear a head covering when in the church. Most don't outside of itin America, but many in Russia and many other eastern Orthodox women all over eastern Europe, Greece, and the middle east do wear scarves on their heads all the time when in public
These are only a small sampling. For many more similar quotations please obtain a copy of the 70 page book” Women in Islam Versus Women in the Judaeo-Christian Tradition: The Myth & The Reality," By Dr. Sherif Abdel Azeem, World Assembly of Muslim Youth.
Continuing, according to the Old Testament, a childless widow must marry her husband's brother, even if he is already married and regardless of her consent, so that she might bear a child from him (Genesis 38).
Further, according to the Bible:
"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are
Discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has
Violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives"
Deuteronomy 22:28-30
One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished, the man who raped the woman or the woman who was raped? What is to prevent someone from finding the best looking woman in town, raping her, telling everyone about it, and then having the courts force her to be his wife for the rest of her life?
According to Numbers 27:1-11, widows and sisters don't inherit at all. Daughters can inherit only if their
Deceased father had no sons.
So what is the standpoint of the Qur'an with regard to women? Women are indeed commanded by Allah to cover their heads and wear modest clothing, however, in Islam this is not a sign of denigration or subjugation to men, rather, it is a sign of chastity, modesty, and the fear of God. It also designates this woman to all men who might deal with her that she is to be dealt with respect. This could be compared to the situation in the West when one meets a nun or priest, how the nun's habit and the priest's robes signal those who meet them that this person does not condone vulgarity of speech or evil actions. This is made apparent in the Qur'an in Al-Ahzab:
"… That is closer to their being recognized so that they shall not be abused, and Allah is ever
Forgiving, Merciful" Al-Ahzab (33): 59 (also see Noor (24): 31)
What about the rights of women in Islam?
Are they indeed, as the popular propaganda would have us?
Believe, "second class citizens"? Let us read the Qur'an:
"And they (women) have rights similar to those of men over them in a just manner"
The noble Qur'an, Al-Baqarah (2): 228
"And their Lord has heard them (and He says): Verily! I suffer not the work of any worker, male or
Female, to be lost. You precede one from another. So those who fled and were driven forth from their
Homes and suffered damage for my cause, and fought and were slain, verily I shall remit their evil
Deeds from them and verily I shall bring them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow. A reward
From Allah. And with Allah is the fairest of rewards."
The noble Qur'an, A'al-Umran (3): 195.
"And covet not the thing in which Allah has made some of you excel others. Unto men a fortune from
That which they have earned, and unto women a fortune from that which they have earned. (Envy not
One another) but ask Allah of His bounty. Verily! Allah is Knower of all things."
The noble Qur'an, Al-Nissa (4): 32.
"Unto the men (of a family) belongs a share of that which parents and near kindred leave, and unto
The women shares of that which parents and near kindred leave, whether it is little or much, a legal
Share."
The noble Qur'an, Al-Nissa (4): 77.
"And whoso does good works, whether of male or female, and he (or she) is a believer, such will
Enter paradise and they will not be wronged the dint in a date stone."
The noble Qur'an, Al-Nissa (4): 124.
"And the believers, men and women, are protecting friends one of another; they enjoin the right and
Forbid the wrong, and they establish worship and they pay the poor-due, and they obey Allah and His
Messenger. As for these, Allah will have mercy on them. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise."
The noble Qur'an, Al-Tauba (9): 71
"Whosoever does right, whether male or female, and is a believer, him verily we shall quicken with
Good life, and we shall pay them a recompense in proportion to the best of what they used to do."
The noble Qur'an, Al-Nahil (16): 97.
"And of His signs is this: He created for you spouses from yourselves that you might find tranquility
In them, and He ordained between you love and mercy. Lo, herein indeed are signs for folk who
Reflect."
The noble Qur'an, Al-Room (30): 21
"Whoso does an ill deed, he will be repaid the like thereof, while whoso does right, whether male or
Female, and is a believer, (all) such will enter the Garden, where they will be nourished without stint."
The noble Qur'an, Mumin (40): 40.
In the Qur'an, both Adam and Eve share the blame for eating from the tree. This can be seen in the Qur'an in such verses as Al-Baqarah (2): 36, Al-A’araf (7): 22-24. They were also both forgiven by God Almighty for this sin. Actually, in one verse of the Qur'an (Taha (20): 121), Adam is specifically blamed.
Islam encourages spouses to take each other's council and to seek mutual agreement in matters, which affect them, for example, in the Qur'an, Al-Bakarah (2): 233 we read:
"Mothers shall suckle their children for two whole years; (that is) for those who wish to complete the
Suckling. The duty of feeding and clothing nursing mothers in a seemly manner is upon the father of
The child. No one should be charged beyond their capacity. A mother should not be made to suffer
Because of her child, nor should he to whom the child is born (be made to suffer) because of his child.
And on the (father's) heir is incumbent the like of that (which was incumbent on the father). If they
Desire to wean the child by mutual consent and (after) consultation, it is no sin for them; and if you
Wish to give your children out to nurse; it is no sin for you, provided that you pay what is due from
You in kindness. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is Seer of what you do."
Husbands are commanded to treat their wives with kindness and respect. In Al-Nissa (4)-19 we read
“. But consort with them in kindness, for if you hate them it may happen that you hate a thing
Wherein Allah has placed much good."
The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:
"The best believers are the best in conduct, and the best of you are those who are best to their wives."
When Muhammad (pbuh) first became the prophet of Islam, the Pagans of Arabia had inherited a similar
Disregard for woman as had been passed down among their Jewish and Christian neighbors. So disgraceful was it considered among them to be blessed with a female child that they would go so far as to bury this
Baby alive in order to avoid the disgrace associated with female children.
Through the teachings of Islam, Muhammad (pbuh) put a swift and resounding end to this evil practice. Not only did he severely discourage and condemn this act but he also used to teach them to respect and cherish their daughters and mothers as partners and sources of salvation for the men of their family:
AbuSa'id al-Khudri narrated:
"The Prophet (pbuh) said: If anyone cares for three daughters, disciplines them, marries them (to other men), and does good by them, he will enter Paradise."
(Narrated by Abu-Dawood)
Abdullah the son of Abbas narrated:
"The Prophet (pbuh) said: If anyone has a female child, and does not bury her alive, or slight her, or
Prefer his male children over her, Allah will bring him into Paradise."
(Narrated by Abu-Dawood)
Muhammad (pbuh) is also sited in "Sahih Muslim" as saying:
"Whoever maintains two girls till they attain maturity, he and I will come on the Day of Resurrection
Like this; and he joined his fingers".
In other words, if one loves the messenger of Allah and wishes to be with him on the day of resurrection in heaven, then they should do well by their daughters.

This is a MARRIAGE BUILDERS site!! I am sure there are plenty of other places on the net that would entertain this debate! Find em!

Your mother in law probably heard the Canadian young girl's tone. She answered in a way a mature respectful, educated woman would of any culture I think.

All of the things of the Bible that you wrote are interesting and most of it has to do with wholesome cleanly living. I think that our beliefs all stem from God and our perceptions and survival in the worlds that we are from. Do you recognize that most all religions have similar stories of origination and the prophets tell similar things. Just as our languages differ, how we talk. We don't always have the same word to describe something in a different language. Does that make me right and you wrong, NO!

When we talk Marriage Building here, the language is also universal. It is in the caring for your very special spouse. Caring for your family. We share the same needs in the human family and to recognize differences in our cultures and respects is a wonderful opportunity in our world that we share.

Saraja, are you married and did you want to talk about marriage? Because if you do this is the correct place to be. Share your ideas regarding marriage here. And how to build a happy marriage.

saraja

This is a marriage builder’s site not a religion-stumping site. This is not the place to be looking for recruits to your religion. They thing that really amuses me is that you are talking about how people misinterpret Islam.. yet your post is full of the standard misinterpretations of Christianity that many have. Both Christianity and Islam have their good points and their bad points. Both, depending on interpretation can be used to uplift or to suppress.

Please, if you are going to preach do it on the strengths on your religion, not by denigrating and twisting another religion.

If you want to discuss religion, then the only forum on here that is appropriate is the one called “Other Topics”.

Anyone who follows the news will see that this may indeed be where the USA is now headed. In the New York Post (31 Aug. 1994 or a little before) it was reported that women have now won the right to appear topless in the New York subway system. Where will the USA be a few years from now? That is anyone's guess.

Ok, so there are some stupid laws in the some places in the USA. The last time I was on the subway I did not see anyone, male for female who was topless. So where is the USA headed? After 9 years people simply have not gone down that road.

People can sit around all day trading stupid law stories. They exist everywhere. Let’s seen in Afghanistan, a woman was not allowed to leave her house with out a male escort who is a member of her family. If she did she could be beaten. Tunisia is one of the few Arab/Muslim countries that allow women the right to walk in the street without a male escort.

In most Arab/Muslim countries a person who even speaks of any religion other than Islam has committed a punishable offense.

Just another example of how people can grossly distort the intent of religion. I agree totally with you that in many ways this have gotten out of control religiously and morally in the USA. Just is they have in many Muslim societies. It is not Islam that I object to, but instead the tone and disrespect of your post.

By the way, besides modesty, the reason Catholic nuns dress the way they do in the long black habits is that it is the way women in general were dressing the in early centuries of the church. There are many nuns today who dress in more modern clothing, though I’m sure not of the Brittany Spears variety.

Again if you want to discuss Islam, Christianity and marriage then please go to the ‘Other Topics’ forum.

Right now I’m reading a very good book that discusses Christianity and Islam, the conflicts, etc. through the centuries. It’s very interesting. I find that most people do not like a good political or religious discussion. I love them.

But I’ll stop here, as this is a marriage builder’s site. And this forum in particular is one for people who are in a lot of very deep pain.

<small>[ June 10, 2003, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: mammaluc ]</small>

Success in marriage has to do with giving up any idea that being the superior one, I can control my wife and all that is under my roof. OUCH.

To control ones spouse through any means is just that controlling the other person.

Saraja, I don't want to insult but to understand. You just talk and do not respond. And you talk umm a lot. So it leads me to believe that you are really no better than the young girl who seemed fresh to your mother in law. By not listening interchanging and responding. You just dish out what you think up and leave.

And this is a marriage builders site, so where is your honest problem with MBing. Are you looking at the articles and looking to improve your own marriage?

And if we don't totaly agree with your religious views? Do you treat us to the same turture and death that your daughters suffer when the family pride is not more important than their life, or she is raped. You can condemn anothers beliefs and justify murder of victims in the name of religion. What kind of God is that? You are more than welcome to live under the laws of the Taliban if you wish, I chose and defended freedom of choice for women. They have the right to live out their full life and stand before God when it is time for their judgement, I shall not usurp that position which is his and his alone. And my God tells me not to murder you simply because you do not believe the same as I do.

Your post does not identify the part of the world where you live, but I will bet that it is not in a country where Islamic laws are enforced.

Also it is obvoius that you are not a woman because you made it such an issue that women are to keep their mouth shut and suffer in silence. If you believe in the laws you are so fond of spouting you couldn't posibly be a woman.

Regardless of your position or gender you are more than rude to come to this forum and condemn that which you know so little about. This is how you convince someone to convert? No! It makes people defend their beliefs, enemies of your beliefs. Do I realy want to know more about your religion? Not after I see that it is all about disrespect for human life that God created. God retained the right to condemnmfor himself. I dont want it in my list of responsibilities.

Oh! And since you have never shown anyone the courtesy to respond to their answers to your inflamitory posts don't complain when you are treated with the same disain.

fudd.

saraja,

When you joined as a member of Marriage Builders forums, you agree to abide by the guidelines.

The themes can indeed vary; however the topic you are presenting is blatantly a pro-Islam and anti-Christian post.

Many are offended and have written e-mails to me. Even those who are Christians would oppose an overtly blatantly pro-Christian and anti-Islam theme, in the interest of religious tolerance.

It has been mentioned that there are other forums (non-MB forums) that you can go to for a discussion of your themes.

Because you refuse to limit your discussion to MB 'related' topics, I will once again close this thread.

I caution that if there is one more similar thread posted, you will be banned from all the MB forums. Please focus on issues of infidelity/marriage/marriage building/emotional needs/etc. See the 'names' of the forums.

OneGoing.
Moderator - 'Just found out...'