I go throug each day and for the most part I am pretty level headed and steady with my emotions and then some small things happens and I feel so sad.<BR>Questions that come to mind are:<BR>Why doesn't he EVER wear his ring anymore?<BR>Why doesn't he use his signature when he posts?<BR>Why is SHE still in his yahoo messenger when he knows that it hurts me to see it there?<BR>Why does he rush to her defense if I happen to point out something that may be a flaw in her character?<BR>Why does he feel the need to escape from me?<BR>Why isn't he 'in love' with me anymore?<BR>I love him so much and so many little things hurt me so badly on an ongoing basis. <BR>Will I ever come first in his life?<BR>Will he ever consider my feelings before he does anything?<BR>I quess I just needed to whine. Things are going pretty good with us right now. I have kept my sadness and anger in check for the most part. I know my name suggests that I will be patient but patience is so hard, especially when you have no control over the outcome of what you hope for.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<P><BR>

Hey PL,<P>Why, you ask. Because at a certain stage we examine everything under a microscope. Why did he answer like that? You are on super sensitive mode. I did the same thing and drove my self nuts. Yes, It was a short ride, but, non the lest I was heading for the nut house.<P>Step back and look at the BIG picture. Easier done than said or something like that. Turn down the sensitivity and don't always second guess what his responses are. You will get so much further.<P>I have made so much progress lately and have implemented the above. If I would not have I would still be in a very sh!tty place. Don't take every thing so seriously.<P>Why can whe joke around with our friends and when our S says the same thing is has such a different meaning? I was hurt many time by being so sensitive.<P>Right now I talk to Val just as she is a friend. I want her to be my friend, right? If she says something that might hurt now, it just rolls off.<P>Try it. Back off. Kick down the sensitivity.<P>It works for me and I am severly warped.<BR><P>------------------<BR>"It's not over till we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!" Blutto...Animal House 1984<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P>

I know what you mean. Lately, it seems like all the times, over the past 29 years, that my H has done or said something that hurt me are popping up in my head.<P>For instance:<P>When I wrecked our car, flipping it several times, my dad took me to the ER to get checked over. On the way home, we met my H. The first thing he said to me was, "Where did they take my car?" Not "Are you all right?"<P>Once, I was at the convenience store near our house when he stopped by. He was standing by the driver's side window, and we were laughing about something when he suddenly said, "Damn, I never noticed you had such a long chin!" Ever since then, I've been self-conscious about laughing because I think it makes my "long" chin show up.<P>The time he told me that we didn't have many friends and weren't invited anywhere because people didn't like me. The truth is, that at that particular time, he was drinking pretty heavily and getting sloppy drunk (sometimes ugly) whenever we went to a party, and I figure that is why we were getting passed over for party invitations.<P>A couple of years ago, we went to Maggie Valley and rode the rides. One of them kept throwing me against him. After we got out of the ride and were on the ski-lift going down the mountain, he was loudly laughing and kept talking about how I "mashed him." Yes, I was still heavy, even though I had lost over 40 lbs. at that point, but give me a break...this guy weighs 265...and <B>I</B> mashed [/b]him[/b]????? He hurt my feelings immensely, even after I told him to knock it off, and later kept saying that I couldn't take a joke.<P>I'm feeling immense resentment right now, although I'm still Plan A-ing like he!!. I keep thinking that he was probably screwing around all that time, yet had the damn nerve to be so hurtful toward me. And, I'm not supposed to say a word about anything he's done. The truth is that I'm tempted to tell him to kiss my @$$....but I won't.<P>I think his account in my love bank is getting dangerously low.<P>I'm not much help, but I just wanted to let you know that I understand where you're coming from.

Lurking around here tonight and saw this post and it hit the nerve that I'm presently on.<BR>Weird, seems so many of us have the very same emotions at the same time. Witchcraft maybe?<BR>That's a joke, sad attempt to be funny. I'm not laughing. I am trying hard in PlanA also, but and Medic is right the sensitivity button is on high and I hate it.<P>I tell myself to get a grip and then Wham Bam! Here it comes and there I go. H said something tonight that sunk me low. He tried to rectify it afterwards but too late. I said nothing, and remaind sweet. But tears welled up in my eyes. <P>I have been think also about all the other crap in the past too. Hate that. And I know I shouldn't do that. But the mind is a funny thing(No I'm NOT quoting Dan Quayle). It's just that all this stuff creeps in on you when you least expect it. <P>Medic, You sound great. Keep it up and keep lifting the rest of us. We need it.

Hi, Nicole - I'm a little late getting here.<P>I'm so sorry you're hurting. And this is the place to get it out. But Medic has great advice and it's not a lot different than the advice Arik got on his other thread.<P>It takes time. It's too much too fast and that doesn't stop it from hurting. But you've got to give it time, and more time.<P>We're here with you, you know? Right here whenever you need to talk. <P>And might I make a TINY little suggestion? NEVER point out a character flaw in the OW. In fact, don't say anything at all about her. I think it was Kat1 in one of her posts a while back that mentioned that, later on, that was one of the things her H said he appreciated the most - that she DIDN'T say anything uncomplimentary about the OW while he was "getting over it". And, yes, it can be done. I have never, not one single solitary time, said anything uncomplimentary to my H about PT. And yes, absolutely, I was dying to!!!!! Wanted to scream "You idiot - are you BLIND????". But, I didn't.<P>Hang in there, Honey. It's a long ride. But you're starting off in a better position than many. And you can make it. Hey, it's the holidays. Use the family thing to the hilt. Yell and cry here, but make that house and your dealings w/ Arik the warmest, fuzziest you can. I know how hard you work at this and I know he doesn't always help, but you can keep it up. You WILL begin to see results. Little ones, slowly, but it'll happen.<P>Just try to remember that he'll come around about as quickly (hopefully faster, but..) as you'll begin to trust him again. It takes a lot of time - for both of you.<P>Hang in there, ok? E-mail me if you need to.<P>Lori

lets agree on one thing.....they(our spouces) are turds sometimes....<P>My husband called one night in Nov and was a complete A$$ on the phone and took everything out on me...I cried and didnt know what to do because he NEVER talked to me like that....he called and said he was sorry the next day! It showed me that he cared a little.....<P>We are still not anycloser to being together but i am hopeful and have my chin up...(no pun intended!)<P>------------------<BR>:) I will love my husband "Always & Forever" :)<P>

<I>Why doesn't he EVER wear his ring anymore?</I><P>IMHO this is sign that the EMR is <B>NOT</B> over and that your H feels shaky in his committment to you and the marriage. Ask him to wear his ring, and tell him why: you need to feel assured he is committed to both you and the marriage, and that wearing the wedding ring is a powerful symbol of marriage!<P><I>Why doesn't he use his signature when he posts?</I><P>Again, this is IMHO a tell-tale sign of a deceiver - he's trying to cover his tracks, so you don't know what he writes, or to whom... Ask him to sign his posts so that you feel assured of his honesty.<P><I>Why is SHE still in his yahoo messenger when he knows that it hurts me to see it there?</I><P>IMO it is because they are still in contact and because he is behaving insensitively towards you, while being overly compassionate toward OW. Either delete her from yahoo messenger yourself and say nothing (he shouldn't object to the deletion!!!) or ask him to delete her, and tell him why: it hurts and offends you.<P><I>Why does he rush to her defense if I happen to point out something that may be a flaw in her character?</I><P>It is because he cares about her and is still living the fantasy where he can still have both her and you. Tell him how you feel when he defends her, and then (this is important!) <B>STOP</B> saying anything negative about OW! This will only make you look bad and her look good by comparison. Don't shoot yourself in the foot by stooping to OW's level.<P><I> Why does he feel the need to escape from me?</I><P>Classic betrayer behaviour. Instead of focusing on and dealing with the issues in their lives, they attempt to escape from or ignore them into a fantasy world. H is attempting to escape/ignore reality, which includes you. You may want to point out his behaviour, and then walk away to let that sink in...<P><I>Why isn't he 'in love' with me anymore?</I><P>The question should be more like, "Why isn't he in love with <I>himself</I> anymore?" Your H is caught up in a whirlwind of self-destructive behaviour. Don't allow yourself to become caught up in it, but point it out to him. H is the only one who can step out of that self-destructive storm, and before he can truly love anybody, he has to love himself again.<P><I>Will I ever come first in his life?</I><P>Nobody should ever come first in somebody's life but themselves - the best somebody can hope to be is hold equal status with their partner. H cannot focus upon you first as he needs to focus upon himself and help himself out of the canyon he's created and climbing ever deeper into...<P><I>Will he ever consider my feelings before he does anything?</I><P>Yes. H needs to come back to and face reality before this will happen, however. Otherwise he will remain stuck in his selfish fantasy world forever.<P>I understand your pain and definitely understand your question, <I>Why do the little things hurt so much?</I><P>My XH came over yesterday and put me through an ordeal of guilt, confusion, anger, and pain. Again he was thinking of nobody but himself... As he probably wanted, he got a strong reaction out of my b/f at least, who was offended at his extremely disrespectful behaviour. ...but the worst of it wasn't that - it was that he returned to me a teddy bear (as a Christmas present), which he knew meant a lot to me, which I had given him as a symbol that although our marriage was over, I still would always love him, and that he needed the comfort of the bear that it gave to me in my time of need... Funny how the teddy bear brought me to tears and infuriated me - it really is the little things... <P>------------------<BR>~~ Elixir ~~<P>

Thanks guys for all your support.<P>I know that I need to change my attitude. Some moments it is harder than others. I guess it is at these times I have to draw upon my strengths. As for bringing out her character flaws I see that that is a major mistake and will not do it in the future.<P>Lori, I may have to take you up on the offer to email you. More freedom to vent.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<P><BR>

Nicole, I humbly got to tell you that I think you may be talking too much.<P>Arik is so confused. You could get a different answer to a question depending on what minute you ask him. So why ask?<P>You can not control if Arik contacts her or she contacts him (although I would be tempted to covertly keep an eye out), but why blatently check when it bugs him? (By the way, I think he's got a lot of nerve to be bugged by that, but he is).<P>Arik is the type of man you can't tell anything too. He has to take ownership of an idea himself. He's got a pretty hard head, don't you think? So why try to slam anything in it? It really doesn't make a difference if you are accurate.<P>So you can't tell him anything and it doesn't do any good to question him because he either doesn't know or you don't know if he is telling the truth. So why question him at all?<P>None of these things will achieve your goal, so no matter how right they are, it doesn't matter if what you really want is to heal your marriage.<P>It isn't easy, it isn't fair.<P>I know the 24/7 obsessive thoughts your brain is generating. I know the pain and grief and confusion is beyond description.<P>Still, you will ultimately be more successful in choosing only those words or behaviors that will help you achieve your goal.<P>It seems reasonable to assume Arik can make you feel better. I don't think he can. He can make the situation worse, he can make you feel more at ease by exhibiting trustworthy behavior, but he can not really take away your pain. That sucks, but realizing this, can help tremendously.<P>You can work on your marriage together and you can support each other through your individual pain and grief, but you can't fix it for each other and you can not take it away. You have your individual journeys to healing, independent on the work you put into your marriage.<P>So expect Arik to be confused today and tomorrow. Choose your words carefully. If there is something bothering you (OK I know THAT is an understatement) maybe you can ask him to think about the subject instead of questioning him or informing him.<P>Good replies to his statements are Hmmmm, that's interesting, can you clarify that?, Oh, Really?, I'll give that some thought, I never looked at it that way, tell me more, anything you want to add?, and lots more Hmmms.<P>Listen to him and make him feel heard. Hopefully he will listen to you down the road.<P>Put your listening ears on and put your talking lips away for awhile.<P>You are in my prayers.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

FHL,<P><BR> Thanks for the advice. You are very intuitive. Arik is very stubborn and will not do anything just because somebody tells him to. He has to decide on his own by weighing everything out in detail. Sometimes the wait is excrutiating. Right now it is even harder, so much rides on his choices, decisions, and actions. I want to be able to help him along but I know that that is impossible. My input is probably the worst thing right now. I will try and zip my lips.<BR>Thanks again.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<P><BR>

You are welcome.<P>After Hummingbird's post yesterday I was scanning the Mars/Venis book by John Gray.<P>It pointed out women like to talk their way into a solution or just talk to get support along the way, while a man stereotypicially does not like "sharing" much and like unsolicited comments even less. In your situation, this seems amplified.<P> <P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi, Nicole--<P>Just a comment on the wedding ring issue. <P>Around the time H became very friendly with Dragon Lady, he started taking off his ring "to play the guitar." He'd "forget" to put it back on. Finally, he "lost" it. That hurt. He got the ring in the first place not because it meant a lot to him, but because it meant a lot to me.<P>And now he wasn't wearing it.<P>Last Christmas, when things were finally better between us, I asked him: If I got him a new ring, would he wear it? He said yes. So we went out and spent $200 on a new ring, and guess what? It's too big, and he doesn't wear it.<P>I have stopped nagging him, evaluating him based on what he does, not on what he wears. <P>Does it still bother me? Yes. But not enough to open that can of worms again. I know again that he loves me, and that has to be enough.<P>You are not getting enough other positive strokes right now to offset this. But I wanted to tell you about my experience on this front so that WHEN this becomes the last issue you have to deal with, you can perhaps put it in perspective.

Nicole. Hi. You've gotten some great advice here.<P>And look, anytime. e-mail anytime.<P>Hang in there kiddo! The ride's just beginning!! But you'll make it.<P>Lori