I am not even sure where to begin this...Well back in March me wife told me that we were having problems, & for whatever reason I was shocked. I thought things were going fine. Well she started not sleeping at home anymore & was staying with friends & everything else. To make a long story short she told me last Sunday that she has been having an affair with this guy. The frustrating part is that we have been in counsuling (sp?) for about a month & a half. Now maybe the counsuling helped her come tot the conclusion to tell me. The problem that I am having is that we were out last night & she told me that the plans that she had for Saturday night (tonight) were not with her friends but with him, & that she is supposed to be going to San Fransico in July with him. As far as I can tell she is nowhere near ending things with this person & I am just getting torn up. I thought after last night that she would reconsider going to the function with this guy but she told me this morning when I talked to her that she is still going. I am not sure what to think of that. I am very frustrated & I have been trying to treat my wife with love & respect, but I think I kinnda lost that this morning when I told her that I do not want her going tonight with that guy. She got mad at me & then I just dropped the subject. I love her very much but I am tired of having my heart crushed. I wanted to work on the maraige & I feel that I have been doing my part, but she appears to be nowhere close to ending the affair. How long do I wait?
I have talked to our counsulor one on one & we have created a time frame for her to come back to counsuling & if she doesn't then I am assuming that the next steps will be taken. I just do not know about anything anymore.......

Your wife is acting like a cakewoman. She is married to you and acting single and admits to having a sexual affair with her boyfriend. She now tells you she is going away on a trip in July with him. You cannot have recovery if she is still seeing and sleeping with him and putting your health at risk. I believe you need to inform her of the consequences of her actions. Clearly she thinks she can maintain all of the benefits of a marriage and husband and also have a lover on the side regardless. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. How do you think your wife would be acting if the roles were reversed? I bet she would have demanded that you move out. She is disrespecting and humiliating you and your marriage. Only you can decide what you are willing to accept and live with. What did she expect you to feel when she told you she is going on a trip with her lover next month? Did she expect you to say that it is all right and you go ahead and have a great time having sex with your lover while I will wait for you to return as a good husband? It is totally unacceptable.

Thank you for your reply, I asked her that question about switching roles & she told me that she would just let me go. I was kinnda shocked at this response & her statment to me was that she would figure that I wouldn't want to be with her or something like that. The one point that I did't state in my first post is that we are no longe living together. She is staying a girlfriends place until her lease runs out in July. ( I know what you are thinking, & I have actually been over there) I take everything she tells me very calmly even thought my heart wants to jump out of my chest. I try to treat her with respect & love, but I also know that I can not do it alone. I think where I have gone wrong is that I have given the power to her to make the decesion about our marraige by telling her that I want to be with her. So like you said there are no consequences for her right now. I have had my friends tell me that I deserve better than that & I am starting to beleive them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I think your self analysis is correct. When you are perceived as a safetynet that is willing to accept any and all type of disrespectful behavior then like I said previously there are simply no consequences to her actions. It is strange but even though you see this acceptance as your love for her it is in fact actually quite unattractive.
How can a person find another person attractive that allows their spouse to totally walk all over them and allows themselve to be disrespected this way? My guess is that if you informed her that you will be meeting with a lawyer and drawing up papers the reality of the situation will hit her like a ton of bricks. At this point she knows she can do anything she wishes and with whoever she wants knowing that you would accept her back regardless of her actions now and in the future. Would you find being married to a perceived doormat that attractive? I wish you luck.

I am meeting with our MC on tuesday, I do not know if she will be there or not. The last time I spoke with our MC last week he told me to be patient & give her a few weeks. After this I do not know if I even want to give her that. I have this guys phone number, do I call him & tell him how I feel? Since I have found out that she isn't being completly honest with him either, or is that a bad idea. I do not know how to draw the line without appearing controlling, since this a issue me wife says that I have. I am tired of being disrepcted though. Thank you for your input.

Is the OM married? If he is Dr Harley says you should inform his W(wife) about the A(affair) because this throws a bucket of cold water reality into their fantasy relationship.

Too Much Coffee is correct as usual. It is important to contact the OM's wife as quickly as possible. This will stop the fantasy for the OM.
Immediately the OM will usually cut off the relationship since he will not leave his wife.
By the way it is a typical comment of the cheating wife that you are too controlling. They will use that comment over and over again to justify their cheating on you. I guess it is controlling that you do not wish to have your wife sleeping with another man while you are married to her. Please don't buy into her rationalizations and justifications for cheating on you and your marriage and relationship. I wish you luck.

As far as I know he is single. He works a mon-Fri Job that is a very predictable schedule. I on the other hand have a carrer that is live mostly month by month, with a little room for flexability. I have thought about calling him but one of my friends said that would be a bad idea. I think to some point I am fighting a losing battle, but I keep getting back up.

Find out just to make sure that he is single because many OM lie to the WW about their marital status.

Here is a question that I haven't asked yet, I think according to plan A, how can I negotiate with my wife to stop seeing the OM? I have put a little effort into this, but everytime I feel as though I am telling her to not do something. I try to be respectful, but how do I tell her about respecting me without sounding like I am trying to make her feel guilty(another one that she uses on me). Any sugestions? I do know that my Wife needs some one-on-one counsuling but everytime she gets to a point where it might make her feel uncomfortable about facing the truth she quits or would rather go to someone else.

My wife just called me & said that she is comming over to read some of the stuff on this website. I do not know if this is a good sign or not. I guess I will find out hopefully it can shed some light on some issues that we talked about lastnight while out. Who knows we will see, I guess I can also try & convince her to not go out with the OM tonight too. I am not getting my hope up.

I think it a good sign that she is willing to look over the material and understand what she is doing. Again she must understand that you are not a doormat that will accept his wife going out on dates and sleeping with another man. Stand up for yourself and let her understand that you will move on and find someone else who will respect you and the committment of a marriage. You did not sign up for an open marriage. If you stand up for yourself she will respect you. Allowing yourself to be married to a woman who enjoys having a lover on the side and flaunts it in your face is ridiculous. Right now it sounds like you are enabling her to continue dating and sleeping with this man while allowing her to stay married to you. What is wrong with this picture?

I glad for you that she is going to have an open mind and read some of the information!! I only wish my H would do the same..I gave him some stuff to read, which he said he would...am still waiting for that to happen!! ANyways I wish you much luck and hope that it all goes well!!

Remember not to love bust her with angry outbursts, selfish demands, and disrespectful judgements. Your NOT being a doormat by not losing your cool and shooting your mouth off. If she tells you that she wants to come back and rebuild the M, be strong and tell her that ONLY if she ends all contact with the OM AND if BOTH of you seriously commit to follow Dr Harley's The Four Rules For A Succesful Marriage. otherwise you both will be going back to things as usual with no hope of changing them for the better.

<small>[ June 14, 2003, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Well My wife just left....Things went ok, but not as well as I had planned. I don't think I any of the key LB, but I did tell her that I was thinking that by her telling me the truth that it was a step in the right direction. I think the biggest mistake I made is that I may have come across as pleading/begging her to at least give MC a FAIR Chance. By that I mean to get rid of the OM. She did not say whether or not she was going to the reception with him or not, she said that she had to make a phone call. I think she will probably end up going with him. She basically broke down & told me that she doesn't know if she can make it work. Basically she has been living with an addict. I am a Money Drunk. I liked to spend money, & she isn't she if she wants to be there for me anymore. I think I at least gave her some stuff to think about but I tried to end it on a good note. I think she wants me to go to the lake cabin with her tomorrow morning, but I told her that I wasn't going. My parents think that is a good idea, she had made a reference to it before but she said is was for her family, & that she didn't want to take that away from me. So when she said that I deceided to not go with her. Let me know if I am foolish for doing that. As I sit here & type how things went my evaluation is kinnda changing. We kinnda discussed plan B without her knowing what plan B is. Basically cutting off all comminication. I do not know if I am ready for that but at the same time I am tired of standing by & waiting. Like I said earlier I am looking forward to my session on Tuesday & I hope that she comes. She has told me that she doesn't want to go anymore which really kinnda hurt. I am trying to convince her that I am changing but the only way I can is through time, which she really isn't giving me when the OM is around. I said something about that to her tonight too. The best thing I did was not get mad, or blow up. I did get tearry eyed even though I tried hard not too. But that is the latest update......And the saga continues.....

LP,

I honestly think it's time for you to come up with a REAL plan to end this affair. Stop and think.....breathe and plan. Here are some guidlines for Plan A that cerri has posted:

Plan A as Harley meant it to be...

Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)
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Plan A is not about being a nice guy. Plan A is about ending the affair.... being a nice guy is part of that, but only part. That's why confronting and exposing are crucial elements of Plan A... and if you're not doing those things then you can't really say that you're doing Plan A.

Remember your goal....ending the affair. Right now, you need to stop begging pleading or anything else. You are going to show your wife that your marriage is viable, and preferable to the A, by meeting whatever needs she will let you fill and stopping LBs....whatever those are. You will set a time limit (Plan A is hard on the BS). Don't even think about Plan B without doing an excellent Plan A....or it has practically NO chance of working....it is only meant to be done in conjuction with a good A....and can take a LONG time....up to six months. Relax. Decide that you are in this for the long haul.

I read a Filipino proverb the other day that says:

When you have a long way to go, go slowly.

<small>[ June 15, 2003, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Thank you....First of all

Second, I would absoultly love to tell her parents about what is going on (she is going up to their cabin tomorrow to spend fathers day with them), but our MC recommends that I absoultly do not do that. That is between her & her family, nor does our MC recommend that I tell my family for the reasons that if we do reconcile then things would be strange. The MC says that that stuff will come out in due time. I will re-read plan A and try to understand it & fit into my lifestyle. The one problem that I am facing is that is already moved out of the house so the only time I get to talk to her is on the phone, & then occasinally she will come over. I try to be kind, considerate compassinate(as much as she will let me be), & a friend. She says that she is very confused about what she should do, etc....

I need to go back & re-read plan A & talk about it with the MC & see what he thinks. I know that we set a timetable of around July 4th for her to come back into counsuling & if she doesn't then I think it is to the next step.

We will see what happens when she comes home from the lake, I am not expecting anything significant but who knows I told her what time the meeting with the MC was & I guess we will see if she shows up. I am doubtfull at this point in time.

I am willing to be in it for the long haul, but I already feel the egg dripping down my face <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Lost Pilot,

Not all MCs have the same ideas about saving marriages....but remember how important secrecy is to the health of an Affair. Honesty is what is healthy for a marriage. Please don't let your MC talk you out of using it. Do you want to worry about what your parents think of your wife....or end the affair? If the A doesn't end...they will find out anyway because you will get divorced.

Secrecy protects your unfaithful wife...it doesn't protect you or help you in any way. And it doesn't end the affair it enables the affair because most affairs end when they are exposed to the light of day.

Our MC said that in due time I should tell me parents becasue his view point is that it will be tougher for a recovery.

I did go out last night with some frineds of mine & I tell you it felt really good. I told my friends that we are seperated because they were asking were my wife is at. I was surprised at there reaction....It was good for me.

My wife called me this morning asking where I was because she called the house & I wasn't home & so I told her & I wasn't sure about her reaction I really couldn't tell if she was mad,or shocked or what. We did talk for about an hour or so & I kinnda called her a cake eater but with more tact then that I said that she has the best of both worlds. She asked why I sa that & I said becasue you have two men fighting for your attention. Then she kinnda got upset & said that I have no idea of what a nightmare she is in & that if the OM could see it then why couldn't I. I kinnda chuckeld to my self thinking that you created it. But when the conversation ended I told her to have fun at her parents cabin, tell everybody that I say Hi & give hugs to the kids (nieces & nephew). My hope is that she will spend some time thinking about things on the drive up & back & then maybe talk with her parents a bit. I told her that I love her & that I hope to see her at our MC appointment on tuesday. We will see....I am not holding my breath.

LP,

I hate to say this, because I hate to say that most MC have no idea how to save marriages. The majority of them know how to help people...but not couples. I'd like you do to something for yourself. Post specifically to cerri who is an excellent MB counselor and let her tell you about how exposure works to end affairs and save marriages. It might help to have another perspective. But let me say this....how can recovery be harder....if there is no recovery? Without the end to this affair...no recovery is worth worrying about....n'est pas? (Isn't that so?)