For those of you who read my post, "Oh, what a tangled web we weave... ", I have a partial update with more info to come after confrontation.<P>W had a session with her therapist last night. When she got home, she was acting strangely, friendly but cold and distant. I asked her if anything was wrong, and she said she didn't want to talk about it right now. She continued to be pleasant and somewhat friendly, but absolutely no warmth like there has been for the last week or so and she slept in one of the spare bedrooms last night. First time since Saturday night.<P>It's pretty obvious that the therapist spilled her guts about the things I had said in the session I had alone with her a couple of weeks ago. It's also pretty obvious that W has made final decision to move out.<P>You know, it's really too bad because we had made some progress in the last week. She did call her real estate appraiser at noon, but I really felt I had her thinking more about staying. I really don't know how to feel right now. I'm dreading the upcoming confrontation when she is ready to talk. I don't want her to leave, but she's going to. On the other hand, with the things she's told me and the secrets she is still keeping, it's probably the right thing for both of us.<P>I think I'm going to tell her to pass along my congratulations to the therapist. She has pretty obviously wanted W to leave the marriage, and she finally got the ammo she needed to make it stick. I also believe that her ethics and professionalism are seriously in question here.<P>But, like I said in the earlier post, I guess I did it to myself. I only wanted the truth out where it would do some good. This war was lost before the first battle took place.<P>I'm just writing now for my own good. When I have more details I will post again.<P>--DeWayne--

HP,<P>Man that stinks your therapist told your wife what you told in confidence. How do they justify telling your wife to move out?<P>Robins first shrink told her, this was 3 days post diacovery, that she didn't have to choose between me and OM. What the f... how is that right, she's a married woman for crying out loud!!!!!<P>Good therapists are great bad ones SUCK.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Bill -- I don't think she actually <B>told</B> W to move out. She has just been encouraging her to think I am beyond hope and she would be better off with OM. It's nothing direct that she says, it's insidiously indirect. She has gone to great pains even in our joint counseling to point out my flaws and insist that I give in to W's point of view while completely ignoring my concerns and views.<P>The big mistake here for me was agreeing to use W's personal counselor for joint work. We really should have had someone else, not her therapist and not mine. Mine said that she doesn't like to do joint where she is already working with one spouse. She says it's too hard to keep them separate.<P>I think that one reason her therapist took the views she did was that she believed everything W said implicitly. W even said(in general terms) that her therapist <B>never</B> challenged anything she said, just asked questions to get W to talk and think. With W in the fantasy land she's in, how well is that really going to work??

Man that sucks. I can't believe that your therapist would discuss what you two talked about. Isn't that not suppose to happen? Just remember it's not over until the fat lady sings. Maybe your W just needed some time and space to think. I'll be thinking of you and wishing upon the stars for the best to happen.<BR>Viki

Viki -- Thanks, I really do appreciate the good wishes. However, W was <B>really</B> close to making the decision to move out anyway. It wouldn't have taken much to push her over the edge. Our last discussion on the matter centered on why I felt that the marriage was basically over if she did move. For some reason, she doesn't understand or want to understand how I feel. She has told me she needs "emotional freedom" and that she wanted to put the divorce on hold when she moved, but couldn't assure me she would continue to be faithful because she "didn't want any rules".<P>I realized that what she really wanted was a trial with OM to see if it worked out and to keep me as a "safety net" should it not. I'm not playing that game. I deserve better than that.<P>--DeWayne--<p>[This message has been edited by Heartpain (edited December 18, 1999).]

DeWayne,<BR> Never assume anything because assume make an [censored] out u and me. My d always tells me this when I start assume I know what is going on. I know there are lousy counselors but I can't really see one letting go of informations that was confidential. <P>We were both seeing the same counselor for awhile and my H thought she was telling me things he told her because of the way I acted when I got home. She never gave a clue that he was still seeing the OW. What I said and did at home was because of a process I went through as I was talking to the Counselor. As I began to verbalize my thoughts I would see things that he was doing. All this would come from one question she would ask "How was your week?" <P>What I am trying to say is the your W is still going through a lot of confusion and whether or not sshe is seeing a counselor she will go back and forth with this decision to move out. <P>The few session we had together I felt like it was pick on poor little me. What she was trying to do was to get my H put into words what our problems where she never succeeded he would back off. He would point out something he didn't like about me or what I did, but when she tried to push in so we could understand why he felt this way after so many years, he wouldn't go any further. SHe would keep pushing, sometimes I did feel that my faults were to blame for the problems but she was just trying to get him to realize that there was more to it then this. She could never push him enough to succeeed.<P>Of coursethe counselor may be the number one worst one possible. But I just want you to stop to think about what I said, because if I am right and you confront your wife and end of telling her what you told the counselor and she had no idea about it in the first place. You will have pushed her out the door and locked it. I don't think this is what you want.<P>Also think there is a point in time we have to let go. I knew from the very begining that my H would move out. Why because you don't live with someone as long as I lived with him and not know him. He was going to have to see what it was really like. As long as he stayed with me he would never let go of the OW. I knew no matter what I did somewhere he would go. That was the only chance for our marriage. Now I hope a pray that he is begining to see what he really wants. But I guess what I am trying to say that we sometime no matter how much we want otherwise or how much it hurts us, we have to let them go in order to have a real chance in getting them back. <BR>Yes we all deserve better then we are getting. THis is why there is a plan B. We have to let go not only for them but for ourselves. <P>{{{{{HUGS}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

di -- Thanks for the "buck up". In at least one of my other posts, I stated that W told OM that her therapist "is really on your side in this". This was even before joint counseling started. I don't intend to confront her and go thru the whole gruesome story. Just going to ask her if she's ready to talk. I know what she'll say and even though it's going to kill me, I am ready for it. Even though I will go to plan "D", I have a plan "B" mentality.<P>Well, she has just gotten up..gonna face the music...

Oh, DeWayne, I'm late getting here again. But I have my fingers crossed and sending prayers your way that things won't go as badly as you think they might.<P>A lot of good points have been made here. First of all, we kinda knew the therapist wasn't that great and figured you couldn't trust her. And W WILL be doing a lot of this waffling, no matter what.<P>No one deserves to be the "safety net". Sometimes I think we really are. Either that or they depend on the fact that we will still love them no matter what.<P>You'll know more what's going on in a while. I'll keep checking back to see how you're doing.<P>Hang in there, OK?<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{DeWayne}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Lori

Lori -- I truly love you as one of my best friends that I have never met. You are always there for me. <P>I'm sure you will see my latest post. di was right about "assuming". I will take my lashes with the wet noodle or the frozen salmon...<P>--DeWayne--

Hi Heartpain -<P>I'm not here all that much or for too long lately, but I do check in and follow things.....like your last thread!<P>As for this one......<P>We will not get out the limp bacon or the frozen salmon IF......you learn your lesson!!!!<P>Never assume!!! You were so busy projecting YOUR own thoughts into this because of your worries on what YOU said to the counselor, that you formed a scenario and adjusted your attitude accordingly!!!!<P>Now, luckily this was not really a long time before the ACTUAL circumstances were revealed.....but what if it had been? Would you have shown her a certain "behavior or attitude" during the interim that she would receive as negative?<P>In other words, when we assume the worst, believe it for fact and then act on it with our dispositions- what messages or confusions do we throw out at our spouses who have no idea of what we have convinced ourselves of?<P>Just some food for thought!!!!<P>Now I am going to the other thread and the warrior princess is on her horse of optimism - so buckle up!!! LOL!!!<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba<P>

Sheba -- I still don't have any proof that what I suspected <B>wasn't</B> said. W may just not be telling me. But I am ready to give credit where credit is due....and to take my lumps...Will that be one lump, or two?.....Moe!!! Stop that!!! Woo-woo-wooooo

Howdee D,<P>Dayam, these women are smart! Already said a whole buncha stuff I'd wanted to. Okay, so I won't put you thru a retelling of the same stuff. But, can't resist some points of emphasis...<P>Careful about jumping to conclusions on this stuff. You don't know for sure.<P>Keep your wits and remember that Plan A is fraught with waffling. Plan B's more like, can't stand the waffling so gotta get away.<P>Easy on the LB's, bud. The gals are right. She might be at the point where any little excuse may push her out.<P>The gals are also right in that she's probably determined to obsessiveness with going anyway. And, yup. You're the safety net.<P>It's still better than a kick in the assume nothing!<P>Hang in there. You've got lotsa friends here. This can be a loooooong process, sometimes painful. My guess is, you've got a ways to go. From where I sit, I can't see no large ladies warming up.

dMac -- Just wanted to let you know I read this and appreciated your response. But, she has decided to leave for her "playtime". She says she decided on Friday night, but somehow, she forgot to tell me...