OK - here I am again. I really don't know what to do next - It all seems so hopeless <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

OW comes to Denmark soon - she'll be living with my H in his new appartment.
There's no room for our 13 year old son there, so my H told me that he'll come to our home when he's going to spend time with our son! OR - I could let our son meet OW and the 3 of them could spend some days and maybe a summer vacation together.
I told H that I think it's best if our S doesn't meet OW so soon - H feel I say that to punish H. I said that H arranged his life in a way where it would be difficult for him to be with our son - that it's his choise to let OW move in.
I told H that I love him and I don't want to make him unhappy, but we've agreed that we wouldn't introduce a new partner to our son so soon. H told me I'm stubborn and I just want to make things worse than they are.
H changed all his E-mail and bankaccount codes so I'm out of his life practically.
He don't care what I do, he says.

Background info:

9/4 - H left for a 5 weeks trip to Spain

18/4 - H slept with OW for the first time and was
with her day/night the next 4 weeks´until...

14/5 - H came back to Denmark - told me he he loved me - we made love - I had a few wonderful days.

18/5 - I asked H if he had an affair and he admitted
My suspicion was based purely on intuition.

20/5 - H says he's in love with OW -
he don't love me and has been unhappy with our
marriage for years (to my big surprise!!!)
He say it'll NEVER work out with me and him. - and
a lot of other hurtful things.

24/5 - I think. I found MB. Plan A from the next day!

4/6 - H filed the separation papers

10/6 - H moved to his mothers basement on my request.
(he wanted me to leave our home, but that didn't
seem fair to me)

12/6 - I send an E-mail to the OW.

15/6 - H signs papers for renting an appartment (2 rooms)
(moving in 1/7)

28/6 - OW comes to Denmark to live with H for a period of
3 month at least. She's from Australia - don't speak
Danish.

<small>[ July 27, 2003, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Danish ]</small>

Danish,

Did the OW ever respond to your letter?

I am so sorry to hear this. It amazes me how heartless people can be.

If I were you, I would not allow my son to visit with his father when the OW is around. It gives your son the wrong messages and it will only serve to hurt him. This woman is his father’s honey and therefore should have nothing to do with your son while you and your husband are still married. The chances are that this relationship will last only a few months at most. Your son does not need to be a part of it.

I would also not allow your husband to visit your son in your home. It also gives the wrong message to both your son and your husband… daddy can keep two houses, two women. How is your relationship with your in-laws? Could you son go to their house and visit with his father there?

I wonder if this may not be a good time to start Plan B.

Hi zorweb. I'm glad you're here!

OW didn't respond to my letter. I haven't heard anything from WH about it either.
He said that he changed all codes because he know I read his E-mails and cell phone massages - what he does is none of my business he says.

Son says he would like to meet OW - to see what kind of person she is. He's 13 - I can't deny him to see her if that's what he want.
A week ago WH and I agreed that S shouldn't meet any OP the first 6 months... WS changed his mind about this too - telling me I'm the one who wants to dominate him and tell him what to do!!!

Plan B will be very difficult as long as I'm still living in the house. When S and I move to an appartment in a couple of month or so - it'll be a lot easier.
S and WS could maybe meet at MIL's place - but there's no activities for them to do there.
WS kind of blames me for making it difficult for him to spend time with S - I say that WS decided that OW and not our S should live at his place - there's no room for both.

WS is blind for facts and for what he's doing to us. He does ONLY what's good for him as I see it.

I've been thinking a lot today... When OW comes here to live with my WH for 3 months It'll be a good thing happening I guess!
They'll be together as a couple and maybe one of them will get second thoughts about the relationship? Maybe not the first month when WH has his summer holiday and he'll brag about her to friends and family and show her the area - but the last 2 months will be "good"! After the first month WH will have to go to work again.
OW don't speak Danish and she'll spend her days longing for WH to come home from work. WH will want to spend time with our son - maybe here, in 'my' home. Since I can't prevent it I'll try to use it to my advantage.
I'll be the best friend WH ever had... as I was before this mess started. Will OW be jealous? I don't know and honestly I don't care.

WH don't love me now but I remember a message he send to me from Spain before he met/slept with OW (I had told him on the phone that I loved him and missed him so much)- it goes like this:
"Cheer up my darling! I'm totally yours now and when I come home - I'm happy you are allowing me to take this journey and giving this adventure of a lifetime - Yours forever, "his name".

I asked him about this message after he told me he wanted to leave, and he said "I --thought-- I meant it back then"

I'm sure he -thought- he loved me when he send that message. Am I on the right track? I've read so many posts here that I'm confused on what to think is the 'best way' to move on....

You are all great people and all replies are so very welcome.
Am I in the 'fog' somehow? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I feel that way sometimes. Your support and advices help me through the lonely day and nights! Thank you!!!

What horrible pain you are in. This is the most difficult journey you will ever take, especially when it is not one that you choose.

My FWH had an EA with women from all over the world, Australia happens to be one of the countries. That kind of gave me a knot in my chest for a moment, always does.

Hang in there in Plan A. Keep reading all that you can. This A is about to hit the fan!! All of the fantasies that they have been living out are about to be exposed to the REAL WORLD with her coming to live here.

Reality check please!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Don't get too worried about your S. He is at an age where he is smart enough to know what is going on.

Take the time to work on YOU! What a wonderful opportunity to really check out what it is that makes you happy. TRUST ME, your BS will notice the energy shift. It made a HUGE difference for me and was a catalyst for our Recovery.

God Bless and Good luck!

Hi Danish, I had not heard from you in a while thought I would look you up.I am so sorry to read of what is going on I just don't understand how people can not take thier marraige vows more seriously,why they don't cherrish them. I don't understand how women (and men)can just move in on someone elses spouse. The pain they cause is so deep. I admire you so you seem to have kept yourself together through it all you are going to come out of this such a strong person. I know that doesn't make the pain any easier but I think of that myself that when I am totally healed from this pain some how I will be stronger. I just want you to know that I was thinking of you. Stay strong <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ June 17, 2003, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: mammaluc ]</small>

OW may never respond to your email. And that’s all right really. The point of it is that she knows you are real and what she is doing. It puts pressure on the affair.

He said that he changed all codes because he know I read his E-mails and cell phone massages - what he does is none of my business he says.

That may be your answer right there about if she got the email. My bet is that she told him about your email. And he changed cut you out of his ‘private’ world because to continue the affair needs secrecy.

About your son. You have want to have a heart to heart talk with him about the entire thing. I know that is what I would do with my son. I’d tell him what I thought about the affair.

---When he meets her she will probably seem to be a very nice person.
---Discuss with him what ‘nice’ means. Anyone can be nice to a person’s face. But a person who is willing to blatantly destroy his family is not so nice deep down inside.
---Most affairs last from 6 months to 2 years. Only about 3% of them ever become long-term relationships. {The reason for this is that he needs to be careful about forming a bond with this woman. She is probably not going to be around for long.}
---I would also discuss the MB concepts of marriage and marital recovery after an affair.

The idea is not to bad mouth your husband but to give your son insight into what is going on, how to handle it and what to expect. I speak this openly to my children. It works very well for them. Any thing like this that happens is a good way for a child to learn about life and how to handle it.

That your husband is wanting to move up the time your son meets OW points even more to the level of fantasy that exists around the affair. Many WS get the impression that the affair is so wonderful that their children will be happy for them. Few children are.

As hard as this is I think you are doing well. I agree with you that the fantasy will wear off the longer they are together. And the longer you provide as few EN’s to him as possible. The will be more dependent on each other to have their needs met. Nothing ruins an affair like real life.

I agree with onlyUcan. It is time for you to change your focus. If you are not going to Plan B right now, then Plan A your husband when he is around. But start doing things for yourself. Start getting out (not on dates). If you nurture yourself you will weather this better. More then likely he will notice the changes in you… get his attention again.

During the three month visit, I’d bet that OW will become increasingly needy as she is left alone with no life outside of their home. He may start to feel smothered. And there you will be, Plan A’ing him, being independent and happy… you may start looking very good to him. There are some great ideas in the “Carol and the 180” thread in my signature block.

>>> OnlyUcan

I'm sorry the hear you have sad associations about Australia too.
I'm not too worried about my son - he said to me when I asked how he felt about it all: "I'm OK but I'm so sorry for you - you've lost your 'boyfriend' - I haven't lost my dad". So touching I almost cried!

Thank you so much for the encouragement!

-----------------------------------------------

>>> Gingersnap - glad to hear from you! Hope you are OK. Maybe I sound like I have everything 'under control' but to tell you the truth I feel sad and lonely most of the time. I am in a constructive mode these days though - my son and I deserve a good life and I'll do anything possible to make that happen.
I love my WH so much but the man he has turned into is not the right man for me. I hope my caring, loving H will be back to his 'old' self one day!!!

Take good care of yourself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

------------------------------------------------

>>> Z/mammaluc <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Your posts are always very inspiring. Thanks a lot for helping me see things in a clearer perspective!

I talked to my son last night (Denmark is 5 - 9 hours 'in front' of the US timewise).
I told him how I felt about him spending time with OW - he replied "I've never been in love so I don't really know what to think - I want both you and dad to be happy. As long as my social life isn't changing too much (school, friends, place to live...) I'll be OK. I wish you would stop talking about it - I'll come to you or dad if I feel sad, confused or angry about something" - and then he smiled - what a wonderful boy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am slowly changing my focus - it's difficult though but I realize I have to!
Thanks again.

<small>[ June 18, 2003, 05:12 AM: Message edited by: Danish ]</small>

Danish,

It does sound like you have a pretty sharp son. My son is a like that too. We have always talked about everything. He has a very ‘adult’ view on the world and people. He often surprises me with his insight. The important thing is that you have shared how you feel and think with him.

He voiced the exactly what a 13 year old is all about… “As long as my social life isn't changing too much”. By nature children are self-centered. And teenagers are even more so. The affair has not affected your son much as of yet. If it goes on much longer it will. Then his view of things may change quite a bit. I know that you will be there for him through this.

So now what about you? What are you going to do to start focusing on yourself?

Hi again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So now what about you? What are you going to do to start focusing on yourself? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for asking! I realize it helps me to put my thoughts into words.

1. I'll find a nice apartment for me and S. In Denmark single parents with kids get a lot of help from the state to find a new home. In a couple of months or 3 at the most we'll be living 5 minutes walk from S's school. I'm looking SO much forward to the day we leave this house where the 3 of us lived 10 years.

2. I'll force myself to eat more, I've lost so much weight!

3. I already bought some new clothes and I try to look good - always thought I looked ok, but I'm too skinny now.

4. I'll start painting and drawing again. I used to love those activities. (my website = www.arty.dk if you're interested <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

5. When S is with WH I'll visit friends - go to the theater, keep myself busy with activities I used to love.

6. Listen to cheerful music, read good books, watch funny movies, visualize good health and a wonderful future for me and my loved ones.
.......

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Danish you sound so much like you have it together. My H is with me and I have those same fellings of loneliness and am still sad most of the time. I tell my self daily today I will be happy. We are going to read SAA together and he says he is willing to do what it recomends for recovery I hope so he has broken so many promises over the years and now with the A I just don't trust. I just want to tell you how very proud I am of you I can remember your first post you are an insperation. I will check out your web site <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Take care.

Thanks Ginger - it feels great that you think I'm doing this ok.
I ordered SAA some time ago and friday it was in my mailbox. I read it alone though <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

WH came to the house thursday. He packed some of his things and I made dinner for us. In the evening he took our son to a classic concert.
He treated me nice as was seemed relaxed for the first time since this mess began. Last time I saw him (monday) I told that I love him very much but that I'll be ok and I think it took some of his guilt away. Is that a good sign or not? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Thursday I was acting cheerful - listened to music and whisteled while I was in the kitchen. I told him some fun stuff that happened to my brothers family and we laughed together!

I didn't ask any questions, I didn't LB.
I haven't called him or contacted him since he left 11 days ago - even though I want to call him all the time just to hear his voice. He calls me to make arrangements. S has his own cell phone but WH never contacted him. Why not I wonder?

After he left thursday evening I cried my heart out.

<small>[ June 21, 2003, 03:28 AM: Message edited by: Danish ]</small>

I went trough the (left over) photo drawer this morning and looked at every one of the photos from our 15 years together. Such a sad thing to do but I hope he'll let me keep the albums I made throughout the years, if I compensate by giving him these photos? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I selected all photos with my WH and our son and WH's family - some with me/son & me/IL's too - ...by coincidence <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
WH looks SO happy on all of them - I still don't understand he has left me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I collected all birthdaycards and letters send to him - the cards from our wedding send by HIS family and friens.
I'll give it all to him when he comes to the house tomorrow to pack his things.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Danish:

As TMCM said...
"You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse."
listen to TMCM's advice on other issues as well - he's a clever guy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you Danish for your kind words BUT the one who deserves your praise is Michelle Weiner Davis from DivorceBusting.com for it is she who is the originator of the 180 degree list.

Danish you've received some very excellent advice from far wiser MBers than myself. I just want to recommend that you read the Harley books 'Surviving An Affair', 'Love Busters', and 'His Needs Her Needs' as well as Michelle Weiner Davis's books 'Divorce Busting', 'Divorce Remedy', and 'The Sex Starved Marriage'. In the meantime I would also like to recommend (just I did to floored) that you avoid all love busters (angry outbursts, selfish demands and disrespectful judgements) and to consider implementing Michelle Weiner Davis 180 degree list suggestions AND CarolKH's isnpirational story titled
Hey CarolKH... can you elaborate on your story? .

It takes courage and a noble heart to want to save a marriage and family, and you've got it in spades.

Thank you, TMCM.
I believe I've read most of what you suggest. I love Carol's 180 posts.
-----------------------------------------------

Can anyone tell from my last two posts if I'm doing Plan A ok?

I'm Plan A'ing WH the best I can until OW arrives 28/06. While OW is here (3 months!) I'll go 'dark' as much as I can.
Is that a good plan?

Danish,

I think you are doing as well as can be expected. This is a terrible time for you.

It's pretty classic that your husband has not call your son. He's in a very selfish mode right now. You and your son are the last things on his mind. It's sad, but at least he took your son out for a while. How is he (son) holding up now that his father is gone?

I am wondering why you are giving him all of the photos of your life together? I'm not sure that is wise. don't they belong to both of you? He is very likely to distroy them or not take good care of them. Just a thought. If he asks, tell him that you will keep them safe for a while. Or don't mention them and don't give them to him.

HI Danish, hows everything today?
I think from what I have read that you are doing a very good plan under all that has been delt to you. I do agree with zorweb,why give him the pictures of your wonderful memories he is the one that left, did he ask for them?
Pictures are so precious to me they unlock in my mind all that was happening at that time in my life weather good or bad,they are pricless I say hang on to that treasure after all he has destroyed all that you knew as good not you this was not a joint decision it was HIS decision.
I think it is ok to think about yourself a little here.
I know how much you love him and this is all so hard,but he is not bending over backward to make your life more comfortable so I do believe that you are under no obligation to make his life comfortable,I think in plan B that is the point he needs a good dose of reality and that means he looses the comforts of his family life that he was use to.Remember he chose all of this not you.
From what I have read the fantisy is about to end and this is where it gets tough and most all affairs die thier natural death at this point.
Stay strong keep posting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

>>>zorweb & ginger - thanks again for lending me your ears/(eyes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How is he (son) holding up now that his father is gone?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for asking.
Actually I think he's doing OK. The thing is that WH seems to enjoy the time alone with S very much and vice versa - WH has become a much better and more understanding father than he ever was throughout our marriage. WH used to be very demanding and yell at S - but now that he has little time together with S he's very kind to him.
S is kinda used to the fact that WH does not contact him. During his 5 weeks in Spain he talked to S 5 times - so it doesn't bother S that much.

The photos I gave WH was the ones that was left over when I made the photo albums - the not-quite-good-enough ones. I'm keeping the best pictures for me and S!

There is a reason why I wanted to give WH these photos and cards & stuff. I wanted to show him my strength - he always saw me as a kind of fearfull and emotional person who had easy to tears.

WH came to the house today to pack his stuff, select the furnitures and the things from the kitchen he wants to take to his new appartment.
He was very surprised that I had already packed 3 boxes for him. I told him I had selected the photos and cards from HIS family and the ones that was given to HIM from all our family and friends. Drawdropping experience for my WH.
He must have thought that I went through a horrible pain looking at the photos - he asked 'how did you find these' and I replied 'I went through ALL our photos yesterday' - and handed the box to him with a smile. He was grateful.

I was cheerful - actually feeling quite happy all day - NOT pretending! WH looked so tired but he treated me nice.
I helped him to carry things when he asked me to - we talked (smalltalk - BUT about family and friends) and laughed. I had already re-furnished so it wouldn't look too empty in the house after he took what he wanted. Another surprise to him.
I didn't LB once - I asked no questions about M or OW - I didn't follow him around the house - he had to call for my help a number of times - I was a little distant but in a very good mood.
WH asked me if I wanted to spend some of S's summer holiday - the 3 of us - in a summer house he could lend from a friends parents. 'that's fine with me' I said. He then called these people about the summer house and they promised to call back later.

Late in the afternoon WH asked me if he could take S for dinner in MIL's house and I said 'that's fine with me', 'but next time you're taking him out I'd like to be noticed the day before' - they went (in my car). WH brought S back 3 hours later - they had a nice time.
WH gave S a hug as he was leaving - I thought: well, I want to give a hug too - so I did. WH hugged back and gave me one of those confusing/confused smiles.

I REFUSE to give up!
OK - OW will enter the arena soon.
3 months here and she'll leave...
Who knows what will happen then?.....

<small>[ June 22, 2003, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Danish ]</small>

Danish,

You are doing very well. Good for you. I am sure that you confused your husband today. That's very good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I know it will be hard when OW get here. When does she arrive? What are your plans for handling that time?