I am the other woman and I am trying to make amends to the betrayed spouse. I have severed all contact with her husband but the wife said she can only find closure with the affair by getting all the facts from me. I think she is trying to start her marriage over but the problem is her husband is still lying to her and I am afraid by me being the one to tell her the truth it will only hurt her more or damaging their marriage when he is caught lying compulsively to her.

I owe her so much for the pain I caused her and she is such an incredible woman but every time the husband lies to her, she asks me for the truth. She is caught between knowing the truth and wanting desperately to believe him. I think it should be the husband who tells her the truth and that I should just go away but she is asking me for answers. What do I do?

The husband has a long history of cheating on her with various women even before their marriage. This is not a man who has been a victim of being seduced, he actually likes the challenge of getting women to feed his ego. The wife is really an incredible lady, she is beautiful, intelligent, a great mom, fantastic athlete and her home is always in model home condition. I understand the husband’s compulsion for lying, he doesn’t want to lose her but he also doesn’t want to give up the freedom he has to get away with cheating on her.

<small>[ June 20, 2003, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: makingamends ]</small>

I am anxiously awaiting the answers you get on this one. I am a BS w/ a compulsive H who lies endlessly. Part of me wants to know the WHOLE truth, no matter what, but another part wants the pain absolutely over. I once confronted, peacefully, the OW and actually found it did no good whatsoever. But, then again, she was not apologetic. I have known other OWs as once best friends, they were lying to me then and I would not believe them now.
I don't know personally what you should do, like I said, I am anxiously waiting replies that you get. But be warned, some may not be pretty and you may not want to hear it.

I am glad that you are asking. The OW answered my questions. She felt it was the least she could do. I was not mean or lay any blame on her in return. All she asked was that I not tell her husband but I think he should know (I haven't told him). It helped me. It did make my husband hate her (he still considered her a friend). He couldn't believe she was telling me the truth. I told him that is because we both knew he was in the WRONG and she was trying to make amends and that don't forget that we were two women who were duped by a man....

My H had been lying and that was just making me feel like he was protecting her more than me. Even told me I was lying when I told him that I had contacted her. I had to put the OW on the phone and she told him and she had spoken with me! UGH!!! I needed to know if my H was lying upon lies which he was. This made him finally come to his senses when he realized that he couldn't run from it and he gave in. He then realized that I wasn't going to "flip out" or whatever and he started fessing up.

MaMs

This is a touchy one.

Yes it is her husband’s responsibility to tell her about EVERYTHING. But absent that, it is MHO that you share that responsibility. Others will disagree with me. When a hard has been done it is the responsibility of those who caused the harm to right it.

How long has she been contacting you for information? I’m confused because you say that the affair is over with. So is it that she keeps calling your about past information? What types of info is she asking you about? I’d keep it to things like dates, times, where, what gifts, trips… absolutely no intimate information. It will do her no good. Does she know that he has cheated with many women? This is something she really needs to know.

One thing I kept telling my H is that lying to protect me does not protect, it only proves to me that he is still a liar. The truth is seldom as bad as what our imagination can conjure up. Eventually he came to understand this.

Another thing I told him when he would not ante up with the truth.. he’d has affairs with 10 women he met on the internet.. they were varying degrees of cyber/phone/in-person affairs. He did not meet most of them in person. But since he was reluctant to give me any into about any of them. I found them via phone records, email archives and chat buddy lists. The women were the ones who originally fessed up to me. So I told him that since he was not willing to tell me anything I only had to make the assumption that this was the worse case. That he’d been meeting them, in person on all of his business trips (he traveled 50% of the time for work) for wild sex. That most of it was not confined to telephone and cyber. And that I had to make my decision based on that. Did I want to be married to a man who could carry on 10 affairs and an engagement/marriage all at the same time? And a man who continued to lie about it all. Boy did that make a huge difference. Now he was put in the position of having to prove to me that my imagination was running away with me. It worked…

When a person lies to protect, they will say they are trying to protect their spouse. But in reality they are doing it in a large measure to protect themselves. It’s a coward’s way out.

The problem is that you are still in the middle of their marriage. That is not healthy for them or for you. You can never totally make up for the harm you did. Too much talking to her can be hurtful too. So at some point you will have to draw a line and break contact with her if she does not do it first. But do it gently.

At some point she is going to have to decide if she wants to just accept life with a liar/cheat or if she wants to move on. There is of course the chance that he has a change of heart and start to work on his marriage and become an honest person. That is not unusual actually.

One problem with the BS (betrayed spouse) getting their information from the OP (other person) is that some OP do not have the best interest of the marriage and the BS in mind. Many are trying to break the marriage up or to extract revenge. So as the BS it is hard to know if they are telling the truth or spinning tails. I did find out that some of my H’s OW’en did some of that too. While you may not be doing this, I’m sure the though runs through her mind. And perhaps her husband even tells her that this is what you are doing.

I posted this on GQII....but thought I'd add it here as well:

This is a hard spot....and I don't want to sound insensitive, because of course you put yourself in it. Still, I applaud your desire to make amends. Perhaps you can do both you and the W a great favor. Write her a letter....telling all and everything you know. Then bow out for good, asking for her to go to her H for further inquiries because in reality, her marriage will never recover if he continues to lie and there isn't anything you can do about that. I understand your compulsion to help....but there is probably a limit to how much contact with you in the future will benefit this situation. Be as frank as possible with the truth as you know it, and let her know you aren't abandoning her, but allowing her marriage to go on without further interference. Good Luck.

>How long has she been contacting you for information? What types of info is she asking you about?

She has only been contacting me every once in a while over the last few weeks. I NEVER give her any painful sorid details, I think that would be heartless and cruel put those images in her mind. It is strictly dates, times, and why. The problem is I give her the truth, he denies it and then she comes back asking for proof. I know in her heart she knows I'm telling the truth but she desperately wants to believe him (just like I did). I am in another relationship now so she knows I just want to make amends for this horrible thing I did to her. The pain I caused this innocent woman was the worst thing I have ever done. I want so much to help her heal.

Sounds like she is not hounding you for information all the time.

I like Star’s idea of a letter. Why not write it giving dates, etc. If you have any solid evidence.. like phone bills, maybe letters, something to back up your story then give her a photo copy. I understand her need to have some semblance of the truth. It’s crazy making otherwise.

Makingamends,

Just a thought for you to consider. Since she is asking the questions, I admire you for being willing to give her the information she requests. Since your information doesn't agree with her WS's version, she may choose to believe her husband over you.

My point is, her acceptance of your information as truth may not occur because of your role in the affair.

You may not be able to ease your conscience either as a result of being honest with her now. You can't undo what's happened.

Your role is to grow from this experience that has caused you so much pain. You don't have an official role in her recovery. That's between her and her WS. Boundaries have already been crossed; the greatest kindness you could do for all concerned is remove yourself from their life and get on with yours. Blessings to you for trying to do the right thing! CSue

If you can supply hardcopy proof of what you say about times, dates, etc. Then do so. That's not anything different then telling her when it's the truth.

I'm not for sure how you could supply this information, but if you can...then do so. The denial of the WS is as damaging as the act of betrayal itself...but they haven't a clue. The continued lying when it's really pointless except to cover your own @$$ needs to be exposed, if possible.

It sounds as if your xMM's W already knows the truth, and it's the truth that you've given her, but she is trying to force her H to come forward and validate it. Now, she really can't force him, he might deny, deny, deny to his dying day even if he's got photos of him...he'll swear it's his unknown twin that was lost at the Wal-Mart one cold winter day. But maybe...just maybe...with hardcopy proof, even if it's not about everything you've told her, only some of it...it will be the straw that breaks his camals backs and get the ball rolling towards honesty in the marriage. (Not your responsibity, but nice if you can help.)

Good Luck on your current relationship.

Dear MA,

I believe that if the OW is remorseful then talking is a really good thing! I think that the idea about writing everything out is a good idea. That way, when H tries to say something didn't happen then they can go back to your letter instead of back to you. After that, NC is probably best.

My H's first OW was a basket case after the affair and needed emotional support. H wanted to give it to her in his fog and I said "no way"! So, I met with her one time. We talked everything over and she told me that she had wanted the emotional closeness so she went through with their one sexual encounter to keep him interested, but felt terrible about it. She even went so far as to tell me that she had faked an orgasm...hehe! I don't know why, but it was all very healing for me. We even prayed together. I am very much a detail person, however, and this could be why it helped me. Unfortunately, this OW then called me about a month later and asked what she should do because she was falling for another married man. I told her she'd have to find some professional help. That was really hard for me when she called to ask me for help with that.

Anyway, this time around, I wrote the most recent OW (the one he was having an "exit" affair with) and I was really kind, but let her know that she had deeply hurt our entire family. She wrote back explaining that it was her belief that neither she or my H had done anything wrong and that I didn't love him like she did. She said that God had led them to each other to meet each other's needs. Okay...they were only together for 2 1/2 weeks, so I'm thinking that she was full of cr*p. She hurt me even more deeply than she already had, but she did let my H see a side of her that he hadn't yet seen and he really can't stand her now...so it worked out well in the end.

Anyway, I think that your being willing to talk could really help the OW move on from all of this. Just be careful to get out of their lives as quickly as possible after your confession. Good for you for being willing to do this!

Stillwed

There was one OW… My H was denying that they had the contact she said they did. He said that she was chasing him and he was avoiding her. He said that the email from her talking about meeting him in Atlanta on his next business trip was her stalking him.

She and I talked for hours on the phone, emailed and chatted for a few months. She felt terrible … did not know he was married. He kept denying… until she sent me her phone bills that showed they spent hours on the phone together.. she always placed the phone call from her house. On many nights he and I talked at night when he was out of town, she would call. They were on for hours… And then she sent me chat and emails from him… they were unmistakably written by him. He is a writer. Some of the poem I recognized. There was no wiggle room about that relationship once she sent me the hard evidence.

And among the emails was the one he told me about. The one telling her that he could not meet her in Atlanta. Apparently he was at the point of ending the relationships at the time I found out. Guess he had exited the fog and was in a panic. She was not the only one who had already received a good-bye note from him in the last two weeks before I found out. That was as important to me and the other evidence they provided me with.

Yesterday before I read your posts I decided the truth was the best way to go and I sent her all the timelines, call lists and information she asked for by email but then I made what may have been a mistake I checked "the other woman" message board and figured the advice would probably be the same as on this one. It wasn't. They told me in very strong terms to leave her alone and not butt into their marriage. So I wrote the wife back saying I didn't want to hurt her anymore and thought the best thing I could do was to go away and let their marriage heal. After reading your posts now I feel like I completely abandoned her. I feel like I should have read your posts first because YOU were the betrayed spouses. Have I now made things worst?

<small>[ June 21, 2003, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: makingamends ]</small>

makingamends,

It sounds like she has the information, and really, that's the most important part. Hopefully that will be enough to help her decide what she wants to do. I don't think you abandoned her...I think you need to leave her alone now to decide how she will address this issue. You did fine.

Be honest she deserves to know. I am also talking to the OW and I wish she were completely honest with me. I will always wonder what I have been lied to about. Should I leave her alone or keep talking to her until I feel better, that is my question to you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by makingamends:
<strong>I am the other woman and I am trying to make amends to the betrayed spouse. I have severed all contact with her husband but the wife said she can only find closure with the affair by getting all the facts from me. I think she is trying to start her marriage over but the problem is her husband is still lying to her and I am afraid by me being the one to tell her the truth it will only hurt her more or damaging their marriage when he is caught lying compulsively to her.

I owe her so much for the pain I caused her and she is such an incredible woman but every time the husband lies to her, she asks me for the truth. She is caught between knowing the truth and wanting desperately to believe him. I think it should be the husband who tells her the truth and that I should just go away but she is asking me for answers. What do I do?

The husband has a long history of cheating on her with various women even before their marriage. This is not a man who has been a victim of being seduced, he actually likes the challenge of getting women to feed his ego. The wife is really an incredible lady, she is beautiful, intelligent, a great mom, fantastic athlete and her home is always in model home condition. I understand the husband’s compulsion for lying, he doesn’t want to lose her but he also doesn’t want to give up the freedom he has to get away with cheating on her.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Hi Penny, I am sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I haven't checked the posting in awhile. If the OW is trying to make things right and is willing to talk to you I think it's okay to continue to ask her questions for a short period of time but I'm not sure that all of your questions can ever be answered and at some point you have to do what is right for you and your marriage and make sure the OW is out of your life. Just be careful that she is really trying to make amends and not just trying to cause trouble. It's easy to spot, if she trys giving you sorid details she's probably trying to 'get back' at your husband not make things better for you. I hope things work out and you are able to get to the truth.

Yes I know your right, she is really private about things and she seems not to know what to say a lot of the time it has been 4 months so I am trying to leave her alone but every time we have been able to talk it has been over the phone at her work place or her husband has been around. I think if I could sit down and have a conservation with her with no one else around I could move on. But thats hard to do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by makingamends:
<strong>Hi Penny, I am sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I haven't checked the posting in awhile. If the OW is trying to make things right and is willing to talk to you I think it's okay to continue to ask her questions for a short period of time but I'm not sure that all of your questions can ever be answered and at some point you have to do what is right for you and your marriage and make sure the OW is out of your life. Just be careful that she is really trying to make amends and not just trying to cause trouble. It's easy to spot, if she trys giving you sorid details she's probably trying to 'get back' at your husband not make things better for you. I hope things work out and you are able to get to the truth.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">