Just a question to star*Fish & anybody else who wants to put there two cents in. During this whole process what happens to my self respect? & how is my WW going to respect me if she comes back. Won't she have me wrapped around her little finger? Just a thought...

Also I guess to go along with that where is my dignity in saving something that the WW appears not to want to save(only spectualtion). How will she respect me when she walked...no stomped all over my feelings & emotions. Just another thought....

Looking for advice on this one.

LostPilot

lostpilot,

no matter what happens, you should keep your self respect knowing that you did everything you could to keep your m together. if the m does work, you have gotten what you wanted. how could you lose self respect by doing everything you could to get what you want?
I wish you could talk to my h. i was the one who had an a as a cry for help. we are going to mc and we each have our individual counselors also. he is very angry now and i feel like he is giving up. i am doing everything to show him i didn't mean to hurt him and i never wanted to leave him. i am so scared he will not be able to forgive me. how can i help him forgive me? it's been 3 months, does it get better? will his angry feelings end? i'm sorry to dump problems on you! i hope my first paragraph made you feel a little better. just knowing there is someone out there helps me!
Jen

me -28
h - 30
married -4 years
together - 10 years

Thank you for those words....However I am not sure I would be the best person to help your H feelings right now. Not sure if you have read the rest of my posts but I am very angry with my WW, however I think her A may or may not have been a cry for help...because she is still involved in it. I would feel that way if she would have ended it right away, but she hasn't yet. She says that she is Very Angry with me. But the only advice that I can give you is to keep trying & hang in there. We are both about the same age & everthing. Your H is going to be angry, but he needs to put that past him in order to work on things...if you are willing & you are the one who had the affair that is huge in my book. I would encourage him to read the stuff on this website(not neccessarly here) but the Q&A stuff. Maybe take a look at buying surviving an affair it may provide some insight for your H & you. Let me know how things are going...Good Luck.

LostPilot

a lost pilot....alot like flying blind huh?

It is natural to feel this way and it would be wierd if you didn't.

Her A was about her. Self restpect has little to do with how someone else treats you. That is derived from how you live, treat others and yourself. I know that as a BS you think "what is so wrong with me that my spouse would do this?" It is hard to separate yourself from those feelings but you're going to have to do that.

This isn't as much about you as it is her. You dignity will come from how you carry yourself through this. When you realize, and you will, that you want your wife back, you don't need her back.

Not quite $.02 here.

God bless

Lostpilot,

Your self respect comes from the place it always comes from....inside of you. Don't worry about the external reinforcement at this point. And let me give you those guidelines for Plan A again...because NO WHERE in there....does it say you should be a doormat...simply that you do not LB...no angry outbursts, no disrespectful judgements etc. You can be as honest as you need to be about how much you dislike what she is doing. How angry you are. How disgusted you feel about the whole nasty affair, BUT you must do it all without being intimidating, insulting, violent etc. Part of Plan A is confrontation...so you do NOT roll over and play dead and act like every thing is hunky dory...because it sure isn't.

When you talk to your wife, try to use "I" statements instead "you" statements when you are expressing feelings. Make them simple. I feel_________when _________happens.

Cerri/Penny's Plan A guidelines:

Plan A as Harley meant it to be...

Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)
--

--
Plan A is not about being a nice guy. Plan A is about ending the affair.... being a nice guy is part of that, but only part. That's why confronting and exposing are crucial elements of Plan A... and if you're not doing those things then you can't really say that you're doing Plan A.

~~~~~~



Remember the goal....which is to end the affair and restore your marriage....there is alot of respect to be found in that pursuit.

She is treating you badly and you feel badly....but you are not a loser for wanting to save your marriage. You are doing God's work. Why should you feel disrespect for yourself because she has failed to honor her vows? Why should her errors make you feel like a failure? This is what everyone in your shoes fights....but when you think about it....isn't it ALL backwards??????

<small>[ June 22, 2003, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

1293,

3 months? His healing has only just started. At the 3-month point I was still totally consumed with the anger and hurt. The way my husband helped me get through it all was to listen to me express my feelings over and over and answer my questions over and over. I was on an emotional roller coaster that had about a 20-minute cycle. It was horrible. I was nauseated for the better part of the first year. Recovery for a BS takes 2 – 5 years. A person who has not been through this does not understand how deeply an affair cuts into the very soul of the BS. I don’t think anyone is ever the same after their spouse cheats on them.

As my husband told me, he was the one who did the harm. So he was the one who had to lead the way to recovery. I learned to admire him for the way he handled it.

Your H is on his own timetable. You cannot rush him.

Is 30 the age everyone finds out their wife is cheating on them? I turned 30 in Feb. Found out 3 weeks ago about her A. I'm in the same boat. My wife did however say the A was over, would never happen again, blah, blah, like i believe anything she says at this point. There's no doubt in my mind that my W didn't respect me. I feel like i lost my dignity when i let her move back in 4 days later. How pathetic did that make me look. I was worried that she might do something stupid like suicide. I had never seen her so weak as i did on D-day as she begged and pleaded with me not to divorce her, always thought she was a strong person. It's amazing how little we really know about our spouses. Ok, now i'm rambling. Hang in there and hopefully she will come to her senses, mine came to her's pretty fast as i drug her to her car.

I too have no kids and ask my self every day why i'm even trying to save my marriage, i think it's because giving up would be to easy.

Let me ask you something, did you always think you were a good husband? I mean did you help around the house, listen to your wife, try to please her in every way? I always did, i could have cooked more often, but i really suck at it.

<small>[ June 22, 2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: FAITHFULnFL ]</small>

Thank You FaithfulnFL & everybody else.... I just do not want to be the second place winner when he dumps her I think. I am not sure if that even made sense. But to answer your question probably the only thing that I didn't do around the house was dust. I hate dusting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But I would even iron my own work shirts ( I am kinnda anal about how they look though. I think she was afraid to iron them thinking that they would not be good enough or something. But I also never asked her to iron them either. But I felt that I was a good husband, we had a roof over our head, food on the table....ect.... But I did have some issues & I get into them in the other posts. Thank you for all of your kind words...

I did talk to a very old friend today, havn't talked to her in about 5 years. Basically sense the day I got married. I think she was very upset that I got married because she said that my marraige wouldn't last 5 years....scary huh. She thought that I would cheat on my wife, funny how it was the other way around. It was kinnda strange & scary in a way that even after 5 years nothing felt forced. I am going out of town this weekend to visit some other friends of mine & she wants to see me as well. I am a little nervous because at one time before I was married I felt an attraction there on both sides. I told my other friends to watch my back & keep me out of trouble if I start to do anything stupid...

You're playin' with fire flyboy!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I know...I know....I was going to out of town to be with friends & have fun. Then she popped up on the radar. Like I said I told my other friends to help me & keep me out of trouble. I am staying with another couple & their roommate & then I am going to another town to spend the day with another friend & his girlfriend. They all know about her & said that they will help me. I am not PLANNING on doing anything with this woman. I do not want to take to the same path that my wife took.

Lost Pilot

lostpilot,
i wanted you to talk to my h because you sound so willing to try and work hard at fixing things. i know my h is angry and hurt. i just want him to hand in there. he said we'd work through the summer then he would make a decision as to whether or not he can forgive me. what if it isn't enough time? I hope he can hang in there. i know i am going to keep working. 3 months is a short time it sounds like, but it feels like an eternity. my h went away this weekend with some friends and he told me his stomach knotted up as soon as he got in the car to come home. it scares me so much that he feels sick to come to me. i hope this doesn't make his decision for him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 1293:
<strong>lostpilot,
i wanted you to talk to my h because you sound so willing to try and work hard at fixing things. i know my h is angry and hurt. i just want him to hand in there. he said we'd work through the summer then he would make a decision as to whether or not he can forgive me. what if it isn't enough time? I hope he can hang in there. i know i am going to keep working. 3 months is a short time it sounds like, but it feels like an eternity. my h went away this weekend with some friends and he told me his stomach knotted up as soon as he got in the car to come home. it scares me so much that he feels sick to come to me. i hope this doesn't make his decision for him.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1293 there's an e-book that was written by a BW and it is exclusively FOR the WS outlining the steps s/he has to follow in order to help the BS emotionally recover from the A. I've heard very positive comments about it, I just wish I could remember the title of that e-book <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> BUT I beleive that Just Learning knows the title of it. I'll keep an eye and if I find it, I'll post a thread telling you about it.

i'd love the book!!! thanks for thinking of me! i will try anything to make this up to him!!
jen

Well Everybody.....Here is an update I guess. Looking for feedback I guess.

First 1293, if you want your H to talk to me that would be fine. Let me know. I will try to be as much help as I can. I think that TooMuchCoffee man had great advice.

Well, here goes with the update. My Wife & I were supposed to go out of town toady & come back tommorrow morning. Going to a concert of her favorite group. She decided last night that it would not be a great idea for a couple of reasons 1) money (the hotel & rental car, even though I got a really good deal on them both) 2) She didn't feel that is was good idea, she didn't want to use me just to go to the concert. I guess I can respect that she was honest with me about that.
We did however spend the day together though, & had a really good day together, I shared with her my feelings as best I could with out LB'ing. We held hands, & even kissed a little bit. This is where I am having trouble & am not sure what to think, She told me that she TRIED o end it with the other man on Saturday, but failed to do so. I asked her if she did it in person & she said yes, & I told her about what I have read here & in the book "Surviving an Affair". She told me that her postion on us being done has not changed. She also doesn't think that she is having an affair. She says this because nothing started(physically) untill after she moved out. Anybody have thoughts on this. Fog???

Then we cooked dinner together & eat, then towards the end of dinner things went downhill very fast. I was stupid & revealed that my mom had told me that somebody had seen my Wife with the om out at a resturant. I had questioned my wife about it in what I thought was a non threating way(now mind you this was about a week ago). She got really mad at me because I didn't inquire more about date,time,place, who was it, & why they didn't come up & talk to her, etc.... She even said that I am not acting like somebody who wants someone back in their life. & stuff like that. Should I feel bad, did I do anything wrong, or what could I have different. We still are getting together tomorrow to go for a walk before we go to M/C. Thoughts....

I think I may talk to our m/c about haulting the m/c until she decides on what she wants...Thoughts on this.

LostPilot,

It sounds like FOG.

Mortarman went through a similar thing. Not wanting to give you false hope, last I heard him and Mrs MM are trying to make it work.

He posted on GQII. I don't know if you will be able to find his thread(s).

I've see he still posts here, I have not seen an update on his marital recovery lately. (Right now, I don't read others threads as often as I used to. Not much to offer at this time)

I would not hault the MC at this time.

As you can see LP, she's using FOG rationality to feel better about the affair. It's babble...ignore it. But let me point out a couple of really positive things I saw about your post.

First, she tried to break it off witht the OM. Doesn't matter she wasn't successful this time...she's THINKING about it...and that's a good thing.

Second, you fight about the relatives seeing her at the restaurant....she wants details because she feels guilty and ashamed and was mad because you didn't give them to her...also...guilt or remorse...good sign. This is part of exposure, and she will hate it...but that's okay.

When she tells you that you aren't acting like someone who wants her back in your life...which is again...more babble, rationalization, projection of her own guilt. Remind her gently that she is the one wishing to end the marriage and that it hurts you very deeply.

I hope you chose a good marriage counselor.....how did you pick them....have you spoken to them already?

Lost Pilot, of all the postings I read from the guys with their wives that are the WS, it seems like they all get the same material from the same script.

I also get the same routine, only mine is asking me, if I, being her, have feelings for someone else I think it's nuts that you would even stick around to wait and see what happens. Only responce to that one was that I'll do what I can to save the marriage, some things I cant control, but I do love you and I will wait.

It gets old when you know what the chances are for their relationship to work out, being the WS and the OP, ya wait for them to crash and burn, but I like you feel that if we reconciliate after that happens, it will be by default, not a very comfortable position to be in, but I will wait.

One day she seems like she want to try and the next day is a day from hell, her new line to me is that I cant stand how you stay so calm and dont get emotional, get that cause she claims that me getting emotional/overly caused problems.
Ya cant win sometimes for trying.

Rookie

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She also doesn't think that she is having an affair. She says this because nothing started(physically) untill after she moved out. Anybody have thoughts on this. Fog???
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh yeah its fog alright because whether or not she likes to admit it, she is still married to you, and until the divorce is finalized, she is still your W.

Try this experiment on her the next time you two get together and ask her if according to her you now are a free man with the right to start an emotionally and sexually intense relationship with another woman, and closely watch her facial expressions. I would bet good money that even if she answered you with a 'yes', the look on her face would tell you otherwise.

Thanks everybody for your input.....Star*Fish, we choose him because he was recomended to us from one of my wife's co-worker. He had helped them with there relationship before they got married. I am trying to get my wife to consider find a coach (ie dr. Harley, or Penny(not sure if she is local or not)). We have been seeing this M/C for a awhile (since end of April)But until she gets rid of the o/m nothing towards rebuilding can be down. Like I said she isn't ready to rebuild right now. I did tell her about how I feel today about some stuff. I told her that I am not ready to give up yet, But (w/o stating a time line, I said that someday I just wake up & say enough. Since We have no kids I am not afraid to start over I guess.

Well that is all for now

LostPilot