I was willing to accept my wife's un-willing to work put any effort into the marriage for a while, thinking that things would eventually come back to normal. I think this was a mistake. Although things can be pretty good at times, she has become accustom to continuing to treat me with the"not put forth the effort attitude. Now after feeling neglected for so long, I feel that that my need for affection or passion is void. I tell my wife how I feel. She tells me,I should not rely on her for these feelings to help me feel better, and that it is up to me to fill make my self feel better. This appears to be the green light for me to seek Attention else where!<P>Meanwhile, our counselor (female) told me, As long as we are all together I should be happy. I'm sure if my wife would accept this same advice had it been given to her a few years ago? It seems that the betrayers are so cold hearted, and the betrayee's have to make all the adjustment. Like the advice our councelor gave me, "Be happy that we are together and overlook what may be wrong???<p>[This message has been edited by nofool (edited December 18, 1999).]

Nofool,<P>I am in no shape to reply or give you advise. I understand what you are feeling and I am so sorry.<P>I only responded so that you would know that someone does care, understand and will say a prayer for you.<P>It's hard to be happy when we so desperately want things to be right.<P>You are in my thoughts.<P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<P>

Nofool,<P>Okay, you're right, that's how it seems. I am one of those who have been betrayed, and then later betrayed myself. Here's how I see it: who ever is stronger will fight for the marriage. If both are strong, and work toward healing, it will survive. If only one does it, it may still survive but will obviously take much longer. Sometimes it is the betrayed that works hard, sometimes (believe it or not) the betrayer. <P>I can't believe that a counselor would tell you to be happy you're together and ignore the problems. That doesn't sound like something a counselor would say... are you sure that's what she said and meant? If so, maybe time for a new counselor??<P>Best wishes, and welcome... I'm not sure I've met you before...

Welcome <B>nofool</B> to the Marriage Builders - Infidelity Forum.<P>I don't believe I've seen any of your posts before... so here is my normal welcome wagon message...<P>The people here represent both betrayed spouses and betrayers(waywards) alike and the occasional Other Woman/Man/Person (OP/OW/OM).<BR><B>All</B> of us are really here to try and build or rebuild our marriages... and we are trying to use principles and concepts that are espoused by Dr. Willard Harley of Marriage Builders(MB).<P>There is a wealth of information here at this site, starting from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/" TARGET=_blank>Marriage Builder's Home Page</A>.<P>If you're new to the ideas being presented here at MB start off with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts</A><P>Many of us need to start immediately working on our marriages and a <B>sound</B> understanding of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A> is crucial! For most people <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>... is the perferred approach to start on... but in some rare cases... if you are really starting to lose almost al love for your wife... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A> is in order! Read about <B>both</B>!<P>You'll see a barrage of "terms" which you might guess the meaning of... but an alternative is to look up what they mean at this site... Words like (click on them to find out):<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html" TARGET=_blank>Giver and Taker</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>.<P>You'll need to learn more about, not just marriage building... but self building too! The learning isn't going to happen overnight though... look at the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8100_article.html" TARGET=_blank>Articles</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>Infidelity Q&A</A>.<BR>The real learning is best aided by obtaining some of the books from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6000_bookstore.html" TARGET=_blank>MB Bookstore</A>... of most important for those who have affairs in progress, or soon to be, is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A> by Dr. Willard Harley. <B>This is the 'bible' for this forum.</B><BR>Other books can be very useful as well... like <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>"His Needs, Her Needs"</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html" TARGET=_blank>"Love Busters"</A>.<BR>There will be many other good books that the MB people will recommend... take their advice... they've been around.<P>Most of all... you will find <B>compassion</B> and <B>love</B> here. No judging... no demeaning... no malice here!<BR>The people here have all had their lives thrown into a whirlwind of despair, confusion, and sadness.<BR>We've all experience gut wrenching emotions that we though could never exist, in anyone's idea of humanity.<BR>Feelings of hatred, love, disillusionment, envy, rejection, emptiness, <B>deep depression</B>, and on and on...<P>Just the books and facts aren't going to get you through it all... not without <B>support</B>. That's where <B>we</B> come in! <B>We</B> care... because <B>we</B> know how it feels. Believe it... <B>You are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <BR>Come to this forum to vent... to cry... to laugh (a little)... to express your feelings... to advise others... or just to get away!<BR>You're probably going through H*!! right now... don't go it alone... remember... <B>you are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <P>There is never any guarantee to save all marriages... life doesn't work that way, unfortunately.<BR>We can, and do guarantee, to give you help... to build back many vital aspects of your life and sanity. <P>Post... Post... Post... Reply... Reply... Reply... READ! READ! READ!<P>I've been speaking in behalf of some dear friends... as well as some complete strangers too..., when I've used <B>"we"</B>!<BR>But... if you're here... join in with them... they <B>will</B> join in with you. <B>We</B> do not always agree with each other on how to handle situations... but each of us is offering to you advice base on individual experiences. Search out those people on the forum that have experiences similar to yours... and ask... ask... ask! <P>Weekends tend to be <B>s l o w</B>... be patient on replys... they will come.<P>A word or two about your counselor...<BR><B>fire her</B>... if this is the extent of help she can give you...<P>It is better to seek out a counselor interested in developing a plan to "build" your marriage... instead of keeping the statu quo! Perhaps a counselor who believe's in Dr. Harley's approach....<P>Get the book <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>... and decide if his approach makes sense to you!<P>Keep posting! <P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...