ginger,

Please tell us about the reunion....posting it here is just fine.

I've been hooked up today....but since I hadn't had time to write....I wanted to share this story with you today that I sent to cerri.

When I moved into this neighborhood....I met a woman from accross the street. She was one of the angriest women I have ever met. She exuded bitterness and disdain. I talked to her, and I sensed something about her. I hoped to have the opportunity to explore the source of her anger, but that didn't present itself right away.
>
>Meanwhile, I began walking my little boy to bustop when school started and met some of the other mothers who drank coffee in the mornings. It became clear to me, that the majority of their time was spent talking about other people....something I find decidedly distasteful. The competiveness here in Texas....not just between adults....but even children is lengendary and awful. Anyway......it became obvious to me that the main target for gossip in this neighborhood was the aforementioned lady....Susan....and even her children. I'd met her darling children....I was flabberghasted by these women.....and told them so. I expected to be ostracized for it....however....they seem to accept my bluntness and have even shown some signs of curbing these unecessary comments.
>
>However, Susan noticed I stood at the busstop and quickly surmised that I had joined forces with these mongers....and just sort of steered clear of me. My little boy however.....is just smitten with her jr highschool girl....lovely girl who I'd defended several times at the bus stop! Anyway......one night I needed a baby sitter....and called over there to find out if she was doing that sort of thing yet. Kyle (her daughter) was thrilled and really wanted to do it. Susan decided to just stop by and talk to me first.....and so our friendship began.
>
>I honestly believed that I knew the source of her pain from the derogatory comments she made about her husband....and the longer I knew her.....the more certain I became. I told her a bit about my relationship with MB when she asked about how I spent my time....and slowly gained her confidence. I felt as though this had once been a very beautiful woman whose anger was destroying not only her looks....but her life. She revealed to me that she had filed for divorce and was embroiled in this awful process.....neck deep. Not wanting to upset her.....I told her, that I had a book I'd like her just to read.....even though she seemed destined for divorce. I pulled out my copy of His Needs, Her Needs (how to affair-proof your marriage) and gave it to her. She began to cry and started pointing at the word 'affair' and said....."DO YOU SEE THIS! DO YOU SEE THIS.....IT'S TOO LATE FOR ME. My husband has been having an affair for a year. He won't admit to it....I've tried
> everything....he won't talk to me....my marriage is over!!!!!!!!"
>
>I simply said...."Susan, I know". She wanted to know how I knew.....and I explained more about MB and told her I had a better book now that we were on the same page....."Surviving an Affair". She told me it was pointless to read this book.....it was a done deal!!! I explained that it was not pointless to UNDERSTAND how her life had gotten so complicated and unmanageable. I went on to say that maybe....even if divorce was the aim.....that making sense of an affair and being able to let go of some of her anger might help her cope more positively and help her children with the transition.....that surely they were suffering in this environment of anger, deceit and abuse. She didn't believe it would help....but she took the book. She also took my "boundary" book. And she read them.
>
>Over the next weeks......I spent alot of time with Susan.....I picked her up on these beautiful fall days.....kidnapped her and put the top down on the convertible and we played loud angry and beautiful music and she cried and told me her whole story....from start to finish. As the weeks went by....her face became more and more beautiful. It was almost as if she bloomed. We had many hours to talk about how marriages become vulnerable....and about Love Busters. She was so buried in love busters.....she was impossible to know, speak to, love......even understand. She would go off even on me....but I didn't flinch....didn't reject her....told her about this wonderful woman who was trapped in there. Asked her if she remembered that person.
>
>Eventually.....after a time.....her anger began to subside and the transformation was nothing short of a miracle. I am flabberghasted by how beautiful this woman actually is. I can't recount all of our conversations.....but I can guess that it had been years.....even with a counselor.....where she really explored herself. Finally this spitting wildcat disappeared, and a pensive, thoughtful person began to emerge. This took a while....a couple of months of convertible rides LOL. She told me every step of the way.....that this was a lost cause. Her husband would never reveal the affair. She could NOT talk to him. When she saw him....every word from her mouth was an insult, dig, dj. ao.....omg. But finally.....one night.....right before her husband was coming home last week....we had a breakthrough.
>
>I told her that by love busting......she was not only making it emotionally unsafe to ever get closure about this affair (there was no way her H would be honest....she continually made threats and insults) but that she was harming her children by creating that environment. Further, if everytime he saw her....if she was this awful..... she was giving justification for the affair....giving him ammunition to shoot at her "SEE.....THIS is why I have another woman! THIS is why we can't be together....etc." We made a pact. All I asked of her.....was that she stop raging. That she listen.....be open.....talk without harming. I asked her to do just that one thing (stop love busting)....in the interest of having at the very least a smooth divorce and a calm environment for her children.
>
>That was where I left her, when I went off for my birthday weekend. Imagine my surprise when she showed up at my door this morning and told me.....that from the time I left....she and her husband had been talking. That he has admitted to the affair....broke down and told all, and is willing to go to counseling with her. The truth.....was something vital to her being able to consider staying in them marriage....and she believed....she would never get it. She has told him that she will delay the divorce....which is quite far along btw.....in order to have time to look into the possiblility that they can rebuild this marriage. Frankly.......I am shocked to see this turnaround....if you had witnessed this change....so would you. It has renewed my faith in this process......wow.
>
>cerri......I truly thought this was a lost cause. I concentrated on her....not her marriage...but I did help her to see how both partners contribute to vulnerablity....and I did let her know that marriages DO survive these affairs....like mine. Her husband would like to talk to me.....and I will talk to him....but I would like to refer them to you. If her IC is any indication at how inept the current counseling has been.....or how anti-marriage.....I am frightened to turn them over to someone else.

Susan looked like a movie star today when she came to my house....it's amazing how beautiful a woman can be when there is hope shining in her face. What a blessing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Star,

Happy Birthday!

What a gift you received from Susan! WOW! It is only fair you receive such a gift, given all you have freely given to us.

What a great voice you are for MB! You must feel so rewarded from this experience.

*S*

Thank you Sparkle! It seems that today has been a day of gifts.....and I feel pretty blessed. Cerri/Penny has asked me to officially mentor for her site SYMC. I will continue training and working with some of the folks I've been helping anyway. Pretty cool huh?

Hello Everyone,
first to SSS
I can not picture my self with anyone except my H so there for even a 42yr old millionaire I might not be happy with.
As for a cruise or becoming a surfer girl?Well I think I would get really sea sick so no thanks,and I am very light complected so the sun would do me in on the surf board all day.
Therefore I guess for me the ONLY answer that I can pick is #4 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

To Star,
First about your story.Sometimes I look in the mirror or see a resent picture of myself and I can see the change the A has caused in me.Even my OD askes "Mom why do you look so sad all the time" I know I have to find the answer from with in myself to get past this.

My reuion:
First I was nervous,feeling I would enter the room and look older than anyone else there,I was almost in a panic over this.It was a busy day that day and I did not have time to get a hair cut so up in a clip my hair went not how I would have liked to wear it (but my H tells me he loves my hair this way) so I felt like I started off w/a bad hair day.No way to start the evening
off LOL.
I wore a slim fitting white colored shirt and a pair of low rise jeans not bad for a 42yr old <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and yes I am not bragging just telling the truth I was the thinest woman there.I think the football players were wondering who I was did I go to school w/them.I was the girl with the sense of hummor in school not the looks.

The evening was fine,but of course H the flirt that he is,was talking to all the women laughing and joking it was a little hard for me.I talked with old friends none of my really close friends came,but there was one woman there,I knew her back then but we were not close she spent the whole evening talking with me asking me questions staring at me,it was strange finally she looks right in my eyes and says "You are just beautiful,you always had such a sweetness about you in HS,but you are just beautiful now"This was so hard to hear,I feel anything but beautiful.She continued to ask questions of my life and of course the million dollor question on everyones mind.........How have you and H stayed together all these years?

Over and over by everyone there,"your still married I cant believe it that is the most wonderful thing".Suddenly it did not feel wonderful,the past 10m of my life have been a living hell.The smile on the outside and the tears on the inside were beginning to be to much.

Then H best friend shows up with his new wife.Young ,beautiful and we find out that he has a whole new family.He stays home with the children she works full time.He has time to pursue his life dream.They invite us over.We pull up to a beautiful home,and it was like something out of a magazine on the inside.As we sat at the kitchen table I could feel the tears welling up behind my eyes,all the pain and disapointment of my life came flooding down.And all I could think of was "this is what the OW offered H,I cant give him this life"I looked at him and told him "my life sucks".

I know I should have not said that,but that is all I felt as I sat there that night.
And now I have spent the last week and a half fighting off the depression and dispair of the last few years of my life.

I know many will say your life does not suck you have this and that,and it is all true.I am thankful for everything in my life please do not get me wrong,but the one thing that I was so proud of in my life was my long term marriage.I had something that was special to me our faithfulness to each other through all the hard times all the heartache that life had brought us.
And it is gone.He took that from me.He can not give it back to me.And it hurts.

I guess the reunion was not all bad,it was just not good timing for me.
I will get past this I know but it is hard.A major mountain for me to climb once again.

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: gingersnap ]</small>

Star - Congratulations on the breakthrough! That's absolutely wonderful. And now you ride the roller coaster with them! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Good luck with it, and if I got to pick people to be on my roller coaster, you'd be one. (Suddenly, a vision of you and Cerri/Penny screaming down the rides at Great America comes to mind...)

Ginger - Golly, that sounds so hard! And you know, you -are- a beautiful woman. If there's some feeling or sense or look in that house that you want to give your H, I bet you can. I truly do. I've transformed my own home and live in the last few months, and one of these days I hope WP notices. I didn't do it for her, though, I did it for me, and I love it. You can, you can, you can. You're beautiful inside, outside, house side, every side!

Thank you Just J

I have lost a lot in my life,material things that does not really matter to me.We have had to down size over the last year due to our S and placing him in a progam to help him deal with drug addiction.I do not have my own home,as much as I would love to have a house I could call my own it is nothing in comparison to loosing what I lost when my H had his A.

Star,

WOW! Congratulations! I don't know who is luckier - you or Penny!

You will be perfect. You have given me such focus, as has she. You are going to be a very strong team.

Hey...so much for getting your own life and leaving MB! LOL!

Now, before you get really busy (hahahaha), you HAVE to finish the story...now, the ending has taken a new turn, courtesy of Penny!

I love happy endings!

*S*

Hey, Star*fish. I really -do- want you on my team. How would you feel about going over and reading my GQII thread? Any thoughts you have would be welcome. It's here.

Also, there's a bunch of stuff about it in Sungirl's thread, particularly toward the end.

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: Just J ]</small>

Star- you are amazing. I don't know what else to say.


Ginger, - well - what can I say. I've seen your pic, and I've told you before, appearance, you are great looking. Inside, you are warm, caring, sharing, wonderful, thougthful, giving (are you blushing yet) (if not, here is some more), compassionate. You have lots of qualities that most men would kill for (oh, since you don't want #1, a 42 year old millionare, can I have him? (LOL), just kidding)

My house is almost in order, (physical house, not emotional house), so I should start having more time soon).

Waiting for next chapter.

Star - this summer, will you come up north, I'd love it if you would take that convertable on a drive in northern MN (with me of course).

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> thats me blushing Sue

And yes you can have the millionaire but I may need to borrow some money now that hubby has to be on strike <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thank you really for all your kind words it means so much to me.With all the stress I am under right now with the situation here I am trying to stay focused on what is really important.I told my H that what I lost last year was the worst in life I could ever loose.Who knows what will happen after the strike is over we may find ourself without a home,a car or anything, starting over,but right now we are leaning on each other for strength and I know that is good.But I will say this again "MY LIFE REALLY SUCKS" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Can I please come on the convertable ride,I sure need a change of scenery <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ October 17, 2003, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: gingersnap ]</small>

Ginger - hop on in, there is plenty of room.
As for the millions, no way will I loan you money, I'd give it to you because you deserve it. (Besides, It isn't mine, so it would be so easy to give away. It is also easy to give away imaginary money, so how much do you want?)

I may need a truck load. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

How about a prayer,that this strike will be over soon.That will work to.

Sue and Gingersnap, please wave to some of the 10,000 lakes while you're riding in the convertible. And don't forget the Off! The mosquitos are godawful in MN.

Star, thanks so much for posting to my thread. Any further thoughts you have would be most welcome.

And when's the next update, huh, huh? When is it?

OOPs, It's me star*fish....logged in under Group effort accidently. That's the name we picked for the Welcome thread a whole bunch of us built on EN. So sorry.

Before I comment to all of you lovely people...you have waited long enough to hear the end of this story....so I will try to finish it tonight. I am sorry that the last few weeks have been so busy. After my birthday weekend at the dude ranch....this past weekend I drove to New Orleans to spend time with my sister. She is my younger sister....but very ill. She has primary progressive MS...the rarest most debilitating kind. She is now severely handicapped. The trip was exhausting and I've been down with the flu for about a week. Anyway...I'm sorry I've been remiss.

So....the year is 2002. I am living in Caracas Venezuela which is being torn apart by political turmoil. In April during the coup d'etat, the wives and children are evacuated for a few weeks, but we return and attempt to go on with life. It is getting more and more dangerous to go out at all. Food stuffs are running in short supply and water and electricity are shut off from time to time. It's a frightening time. My H went on his trip and I decided to fly to New Orleans to visit my sister and work on her house. My H becomes lost at sea.

My initial reaction is not what you would expect. At first....and this is an awful thing to say....I thought that might not be the worst thing to ever happen. It sounds so horrible now, but at the time......I wondered, dreamed of living a life that held some hope of happiness for me that didn't include him. But after the status of my H and his friends really became alarmingly out of contact....and the reality that it was not some daydream...but really lost, I began to feel panicky. I posted on the board, and one of the board members helped me get in touch with first the coast guard in Miami and later with authorities off the coast of Santo Domingo. The search began....and ending quickly when the boat limped into an odd port to make repairs. My strange reaction scared me. I was afraid that when I saw him again....that I would feel the same detachment that I had felt when I first believed he could be lost.

But that didn't happen at all. When I flew back to be reuinited with him....I felt such relief and stirrings of emotion that it caught me off guard. I began to study the MB material harder and came to an understanding about something I had (and other folks had) misunderstood. I SHOULD NOT BE IN PLAN A. Plan A is giving without expectation. Plan A perpetuated what had always existed in my marriage. I was the giver. He was the taker. Without changing THAT...the marriage would stay the same. I would give until I was empty and invisible. He would take and take and offer only enough to keep me from leaving.

So the key for me....was to get out of Plan A, become reacquainted with my taker and begin really learning to implement the POJA along with the other rules of a successful marriage. I was failing to recover,....because I had no recovery plan. The affair was over....and I was still operating as if it wasn't. I stopped the Plan A....and began the marriage building. I controlled LBs, filled ENs but began to negotiate for the things I wanted and needed. And one of the real surprises to me....was that my husband was WILLING to negotiate....when all of these years...I assumed he wasn't.

In the past, if H wanted something...I gave it to him whether I was enthusiastic or not. Then I resented giving it and harbored anger. I played the martyr...and yet....I was never honest. I have never thought of myself as a liar....but witholding information about what would make me happy...crippled my husband's ability to please me. The biggest surprise...was that he did want to please me. He would negotiate. I had never asked. I had never objected. I didn't know how to, and thought it would be selfish of me. It is selfish.....exactly the kind of selfishness that saved my marriage. My taker...not my giver....saved my marriage.

So as the fall progressed that year, my marriage began to slowly heal and I began to feel a little happier. The trust was growing as well. I was anxiously preparing for Christmas when my daughter would come and visit and I decorated the house so beautifully. We were planning to host dinner for the expats who were staying for the holidays and looking forward to celebrating with galas and festivals. But again....the political situation eroded and the embassy recommended we leave the country again. We went back to the States with no real place to go. It was Christmas time....and it seemed that our families were just not prepared to host us indefinitely. I found small house to rent from a friend and surprisingly....we had a great family Christmas there. My H returned to Venezuela, but the kids and I stayed behind because families were not allowed to go in. I didn't know it then...but I would never go back to my house in Venezuela.

From that time....until we were reunited...I had very little internet access. I was away from the board....and constant marital analysis. I was just living MB...not talking it.

Even with the stress of the situation and all of the complications, separation etc., my marriage seemed to remain calm and strong and the connection grew. I realized one day...that I was simply happy...and that my marriage was really and truly in recovery. It was a pleasant shock....I think I posted it.

My H and I regularly use the POJA, and honesty. We spend time together. We fill needs. We rarely hurt eachother or neglect each other. We have become a team. When we are faced with stress....as all couples are...we face it together. We love eachother. We are in a state of intimacy. Being repatriated into the US has been great for our family. His new job is only ten minutes away...we eat lunch together almost every day. My life is incredibly different. I still have to remind my giver...not to give away too much....but it's getting easier. I'm happy.....I've been happy since Christmas last year. The things that happen now are just boring everyday stuff...which I think is pretty wonderful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So that's my happy ending....and if you have other questions let me know. I'll post to each of you later. Thanks for sticking with me.

<small>[ October 21, 2003, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: Group Effort ]</small>

Ginger.....you mentioned you've had some crisis in your life. Could you expand on that?

Just J....I will definitely visit your thread again on GQII again....I'm trying to catch up with some stuff right now...and I'm still pretty sick so I'm moving sloooooooooow LOL.

Hello Star
Thank you for the story.It is amazing how much you can learn about yourself through someone elses experiances does that make sence to you?
I can see my self in some of your writing and can see where I need to change.It is sometimes easier said than done.

The newest crisis in my life is that my H union went on strike,for him that meant a lockout.He is unable to go to work he must walk on a picket line 40hrs a week right now.The pay he will recieve is less than half of what he would normally bring home.This would not be as bad but we had just come out of a long year year w/a wage garnishment because of our son.Just when it looked like we were going to get back on track from that this happens.

My 15yr old found a lump in her breast,she will have an ultra sound of it tomorrow.I am sure it will turn out to be nothing but still it is scary to think at her young age that something could be wrong.

Yes right now it feels like one crisis after another.

ginger,

You know, it's amazing how crisis affects marriages differently when you reach the state of intimacy. H and I still have external crisis....that doesn't go away....but now that we are a team...facing it seems so much easier. Keep working on reaching recovery...and intimacy. Solidify a plan to do that with. I'll help if you want....you know that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you Star,
I know that you will be there to help.Right now I don't even know where to start somedays.This will prove to be the hardest time in recovery for me.It is now approaching the year mark of when he had PA w/OW.Every day I find myself saying "A year ago today he did this and that" I try so hard to push it from my thoughts but it is there it does not go away.I am trying though.Really I am.

Star -

You are a lovely, lovely person and I'm so glad for you that you've had a happy ending to your story. Somehow, I feel as though your husband being lost at sea was critical in your recovery. You had to face, truly face, the emotions that you felt for him and how you would feel if he disappeared from your life.

He may not have known it, but in effect, he gave you just a tiny taste of the ultimate Plan B.

Please do come over and visit my thread. I have so much thinking to do. It's one of those days when I wonder whether every action I'm taking is wrong. But I'll post that on my own thread, not on this one. Star, you're... amazing. Thanks for sharing yourself here.

Ginger,
Does your H know you chose him over that millionare? Wow, that would be an ego trip for any man.

I hope you are doing better this week. I find myself wondering when you get a break, and hoping you do get one. You need it just like Sue does. Do a trade one of these weeks, you take the Grand kids one week, and have them take the rest of the kids the next and you and H go and get some R&R. I bet you could think of something that would be relaxing for you. Would H go for that?

Don't be afraid to do things like that, you may find that you like it.

SS