Over on Emotional Needs, a perfect chance for you to exercise your skills with the POJA.

I'd do it, but I'm chicken that I'll get this wrong---so I'm deferring to someone with real training... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks K....LOL....I was just coming over here to page her for the same reason. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I read your response and figured that...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ohhhhh..... I haven't even been there yet and I know which one you mean... I saw it this morning and deliberately walked away.... LOL

And since then it's been fermenting and calling to me... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ok, I gotta rally that file in my little brain, so much that could be said... only so much speed in the fingers....

And really, K.... I know you'd do just fine!

C

Alrighty, here it is , not everything I could or would like to say on the topic, but it's a start.

Consumed my weekend by popping into my head on a regular basis. Really, I HAFTA get a life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

C

Nice job---much better than I did.

And heck, this didn't pop into my head once this weekend... you DO need a life!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by K:
<strong>
And heck, this didn't pop into my head once this weekend... you DO need a life!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rub it in...... that helps.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Jennifer told me I didn't have an addicitive personality... she didn't say anything about obsessive though....... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Obsessive is quite different than addictive... it's way worse!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Seriously, I remember complaining to Steve years ago (when he'd answer my email) about getting sucked into some of the posts here (my "counseling as a second job" phase). He gave me a decent lecture about learning to compartmentalize this stuff, and backing off if it was getting overwhelming. I'm not sure I could handle a gig like this full-time. And there's not many opportunitites in the counseling field to use power tools or diesel equipment... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It's a difficult line to draw... being caring and concerned and connected, and losing one's life to coaching.

The difference between coaching and counseling is fundamental in that it's a symbiotic partnership. It's involved, equal and definitely comprised of give and take. The more I do this and the more I continue my studies in the coaching industry the more I see how far removed it is from therapy. That in fact was brought home very clearly at the MWD training I did.

I would have a hard time ethically just shutting down and walking after a session with a client. Part of what I offer is email support, as my time allows.... some weeks being better than others (dending it seems on the orthodontia schedule! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) I think couples or individuals in crisis need to have access to a sympathetic ear and to a calming word in between sessions. Sometimes they need a kick in the you-know-what..... but not often.... and mostly that's about presenting something from a different POV.

I have issues with complete non availability except during sessions and yet I struggle with being too available myself. As for getting sucked into things here.... never happens to me.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> LOL.... ok, ok..... I guess I try to stay where I feel what I have to say is welcome, heard and useful.... rather than feeling my message is so important that I need to dump it on anyone who will listen.

I used to love conflict and debate, grew up in family that thrived on it as dinner time conversation. After what I've been through the last 6 years, that's changed entirely. Now I have a very difficult time with it, I don't put myself out there the way I used to. I walk away if it gets ugly.... I just can't handle it unless I have to.

And there's not many opportunitites in the counseling field to use power tools or diesel equipment...

Now.... if one were to buy, say, and unfinished house.... and decide to do all the work oneself... then there is plenty of opportunity to do what I do AND to play with power tools. Providing of course one can POJA it with one's husband. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C

k, cerri,

I'm looking for a new forum home. What's a good part for me to put down some roots do ya think? Recovery maybe?

Why are ya looking and what would you say is your strongest assets... MBwise <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> What calls to you the most, what have you struggled with or what do you need to define in your own head? Those are things only you can answer and are the clues to where you belong.

Sometimes however you just need to go where the Goddess takes you. I ended up on the infidelity boards because a very good EN friend moved here when he found out about his wife's A. (And then I ruthlessly hijacked his thread for nearly a year and a half LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) And the rest, as they say, is history. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Ever thought about taking the training? I think you'd have to wait until next summer before it's offered again, but you could get a head start now. I'd help with that if you like.

I'm looking because I'd like to go to a part of the forum where there is more interest in discussing these concepts rather than things like vibrators, masterbation techniques or being exposed to so many board wars.

As far as my strengths.....hmmmm. I think I'm good at initial contact in making folks feel good about coming here, calming some fears, and being ready and open to talk. I'm pretty diplomatic and non-judgmental even if I have to delivery difficult information. Although I am still learning, I have a good grasp of the concepts and I usually do even more research when answering. I'm intuitive and can sometimes hear unspoken messages. I understand first who I am speaking to.....if that means going back and reading alot of old posts or asking alot of questions, I'm willing to do that. And my motive in responding is to help....if I can't, or feel that I'm unqualified....I point them where they may be able to get help. I go to great lengths not to "harm" if I can't help, and I expect to have personal limitations in my ability to do that.

What kind of training are you talking about? MB training of some kind?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ever thought about taking the training? I think you'd have to wait until next summer before it's offered again, but you could get a head start now. I'd help with that if you like. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Watch out, Starfish---she's going to assimilate you!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Star, you'd be terrific pretty much anywhere on the boards where there's traffic. Back in the old (really old) days, there was only one forum, and the participation wasn't nearly as nuts. I think I knew EVERYONE who posted, their stories and situations---and I was able to respond to probably 3/4 of them.

General Questions could use your talents. I used to spend a lot of time over there, but have cut way back. Recovery is an OK place for you, but I'd like to see you more at the front lines (JFO or GQII). Cerri seems to have JFO under control, so--- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And you do excellent work over at EN too. I realize that some of the threads are just trash, but I tend to ignore them (again, I remember when I read EVERY thread... that was when I needed a life <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

You could also think about staying at EN and proactively posting good conceptual info. My thread about POJA got some much needed conversation going on that topic.

I was also thinking GQII or Recovery or even JFO. Much of what I do is with a very limited number of posters who look for me rather than reaching out to a lot of people. I have to make a conscious effort not to reply to all the ones I read because I just don't have time. I feel bad that I can't do as good a job as my standards dictate on the ones I do reply to.

You have the touch to do a good job at JFO, and you have a lot of experience in recovery.... I guess it's really where you find a good fit. Maybe you just want to jump around for a while?

I was at EN and then moved here like I said pretty much exclusively for a long time, and then did a little at PA/PB when I did Plan B and then with a poster there who led me to another poster at GQII where I still spend a lot of time.

I like the infidelity work because I'm good at it. It's a good fit.

K: Watch out, Starfish---she's going to assimilate you!!!

LOL LOL LOL..... right....let's see the Rebel Witch Woman is going to assimilate you into the very Christian oriented MB training.... now that's quite the assimilation!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

C

K are you implying that cerri is the MB borg queen? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> And here I thought she was our Katherine Janeway. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ July 15, 2003, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

K,

I have been spending more time in other parts of the forum...GQII, JFO and a little in recovery. Because I never had before, I was really surprised at how much more focussed other parts of the forum are. Of course, part of that is the "nature" of ENs and their diversity, but another part is that the EN board has so much traffic and so many newcomers who arrive the first day and start giving advice. Maybe I'll just float for a while until I begin to feel comfortable somewhere and stay more loosely connected at EN than I am now.

kam has told me before what this forum used to be like. She said you were the first person to respond to her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Is it sheer volume that has changed this forum, or has the focus changed? I was talking to kathi the other day, and told her that I was looking to find what the purpose of the board was meant to be, and that I found this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Discussion Forum

When I first launched this web site in January 1996, I was able to personally answer all e-mail questions that were asked. Some of those questions and my answers appear in the Q&A Columns I've posted. But by the time they had grown to over 50 letters a day, I had to find another way to handle these very important questions.

The solution is our Marriage Builders® Forum. Here you have an opportunity to ask questions, and receive answers, not from me or my staff, but from other visitors who have learned my concepts and want to support you in your effort to improve your marriage. I am not able to review most of the questions and answers (some days there are over 1000), and so I cannot guarantee that I would give the same answer you might receive. But what I have seen has been very encouraging to me. And I've noticed that when someone gives advice that does not agree with my concepts, there are usually those who point out that fact in a string of letters that follow
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So out of this, it seems to me, and of course I don't expect everyone to feel this way....that I should do my best to help people answer some of the questions (if I am able to) that people come here asking, since very few of them will have direct access to the Harleys.

And since I am not a professional with training, that my first responsibility is not to traumatize them further by alienating them or humiliating them. And also to point them in the direction where they can find answers I cannot supply or am untrained to give.



cerri,

Almost all of my threads are designed to discuss issues. I make allusions to my marriage....but I'm not one who comes to the board with alot of problems (occasionally some minor ones). I have that communication thread going on over there right now about how to better communicate with spouses and board members. I've had some great responses to discussion threads.....so maybe I could keep doing that in order to give folks a choice to talk about issues if they choose to.

I'm just often shocked at the vehemence of the attacks on some posters. Granted, some of these folks have major problems....but we aren't ICs or docs...and the attacks are more personal than marriage related when they bother me most. There seems to be certain gang-mentality that I find unsettling when a poster shows a weakness. Having one poster come along and point it out, should be sufficient, but it turns into a kind of feeding frenzy/lynch mob atmosphere. I've seen a disturbing trend where poster after poster will start dredging up old phrases taken out of context from an individual looking for discrepancies in an effort to discredit someone. And also a trend (increasing) "calling out" a poster like it's the O.K. corral or worse....a thread where folks talk "about" another poster. I've reported some of these and quite a few have been removed....but it is happening with much greater frequency. Then there's always a few bullies on the board. All of this leads to a rather hostile environment for real talk, help, support and is pretty scary for the newbies who are just walking in. Afterall, they show up usually under extreme duress....and get jumped almost immediately. I can't tell you how many have just never come back or been chased off the board.

Tell me about the training. What's it for? How can you use it?

Coffeman.....here's one for you:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am the beginning and the end. I bring order into chaos.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm with you.....I think cerri is our Janeway.

<small>[ July 15, 2003, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am the beginning and the end. I bring order into chaos.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmmmm, sounds like either my tax attorney or the guy that picks up my trash every Monday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

star:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">kam has told me before what this forum used to be like. She said you were the first person to respond to her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Is it sheer volume that has changed this forum, or has the focus changed?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, a while back I actually looked up that first post to kathi, and surprisingly---it was quite good. Back in the old days I used to post much more frequently and spent more time outlining the material (the redone concepts links are better than it used to be).

I think that it's been the volume of posts and new posters showing up that has "diluted" the boards. The focus really hasn't changed for any reason other than that. Also, the internet was a different place five years ago (more polite, less crap going on), and I think that those changes have taken a toll on this site.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The solution is our Marriage Builders® Forum. Here you have an opportunity to ask questions, and receive answers, not from me or my staff, but from other visitors who have learned my concepts and want to support you in your effort to improve your marriage. I am not able to review most of the questions and answers (some days there are over 1000), and so I cannot guarantee that I would give the same answer you might receive. But what I have seen has been very encouraging to me. And I've noticed that when someone gives advice that does not agree with my concepts, there are usually those who point out that fact in a string of letters that follow</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a great quote from Harley. I always used to worry about being "the MB authority" (which was my reputation in the old days), because the only training I had in this material was Steve (and Jenn) beating it into my thick skull. But I used to get some feedback from Steve in regards to how much my (and other's) advice helped---even people who only lurked and never posted (but gave feedback to Steve, usually through counseling). I'm very pleased to see how many solid MB participants we have on the boards now---you included (and TMCM, cerri, JL, kathi, etc---the list is about 50 on quick count). It's sometimes hard to make yourself heard over the din that the boards now have, but I still believe that it's worth the effort. And hey---you want bullies and raw emotions---try hanging out over in Pregnancy. That place is always hot!

K,

I think people often resent when I step in a say "oops, I'm not sure that's exactly right. I think Harley means this:....." Inspite of the fact that I find quotes from various sources to support whatever I am saying....I think it puts people off a bit. The attitude is similar to "Who died and made you king?". Sometimes I thought, "wow, maybe I should just ignore this." It's hard watching people just dispense harmful advice.

After finding this quote, I feel a little more vindicated <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , at the very least, re-empowered so to speak, to continue to clarify these concepts when I am able....or to import other quotes that will clarify them.

Hope it's okay to pop in here for a moment...

The problem (IMHO) is a mixture of the volume and so many people not really caring about what Harley says - they just want validation and/or commisseration (sp?) -- oh, and myself included when I first got here.

The fact that many (myself included) have tried to speak pure Harley (you have to roll the "r" just right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) and have had our collective hands slapped because "who are we" to shove this stuff down throats, hasn't helped the cause. Look how many who really *did/do* know have backed off and/or stopped posting!

Cerri, you are truly an authority, and K, people still meet in dark corners to discuss whether or not you're the real-live Steve Harley (besides being a prolific writer and all-around-good-guy)... so both of you have carte blanche to say what needs to be said without reproach - well, usually anyway.

I don't post much anymore... and I find that when I do, it's often like spitting in the wind. You two can get through the muck and mire and people hear you... it's a gift, seriously.

Anyway, just wanted to say that... and thank you for being what this site so desperately needs.