This is Alisse's first post. She added it to another thread so I am starting her own thread for her so she can recieve more help:

Hi, I'm Alisse. This is the first time I'm dropping
in. I'm in a very bad shape and I need help.

It's been 4 years since I discovered my H's 6-month A. Although he showed great remorse and reaffirmed his commitment to me and our marriage and to the concerns of our children, I find my recovery so excruciatingly slow. I guess what really "freaks me out" are: 1) images of what H and OW did in bed (which they captured in film, would you believe?) that haunt me every single minute til this day and 2) the occasional contacts between them (which H says are unavoidable since his office has deals with her office), which he has not been honest with me about. (This has become one of the main causes of our roller-coaster rides.)

H said that their "porno shoot" was a terribly crazy thing that one who was terribly drunk could ever do. So when he sobered up, he was just beside himself with this sickening feeling inside of him. And for several days, he planned how he was going to yank the film out of OW's camera. He, eventually, succeeded without her knowledge. And took great pains in hiding said film from me.

Can't imagine why he got careless. Found the innocent-looking film in his satchel (at home) a year ago. (I've been doing a lot of snooping, too.) Had the film developed commercially. To this day, I cannot yet describe the horror I felt when the salesperson handed me a pack of negatives (only) and as I peered into the negatives.

H tries justifying his dishonesty about his occasional contacts with OW as attempts to cushion the impact of pain. We would usually end up with a loud discussion on "We made a deal!".

Despite these hurting and hurtful episodes, we do have tender and loving moments that give both of us aome hope for a renewed marriage. But these moments don't last long enough for me to really want to stay in this marriage.

I AM EMOTIONALLY EXHAUSTED! I suppose, so is H.

Help me, please.

<small>[ July 12, 2003, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Alisse,

Even though this happened four years ago, continued contact makes healing impossible for you....and it would be impossible for anyone...not just you. Imagine that you got slashed and that you had a deep wound. With the proper medical attention and recovery plan, the wound would heal and the pain would cease. You might have a scar, but you could live with it. Now imagine instead, that every so often, someone poke, prodded or reinjured it. It would keep hurting and would not heal properly.

You must help your husband to understand that continued contact is destroying your love for him and continuing to open this wound.

Keep posting. You are very welcome here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ July 12, 2003, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

You can recover. Many people have. But you are not on the path as long as he continues to see her and is not being honest. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. Your situation is harder, but your chances of saving your marriage and actually making it better than before are still good. But, whether your spouse is "on board" or not, you should do three things:

1.) Learn. Read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity Then buy and read “Surviving an Affair”, by Willard Harley, (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them.

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity Read it while you wait for your copy of "Surviving an Affair" to arrive in the mail.

Alisse,

How are you doing? Does any of this help?

Star*fish

What did you gain for the seminar? I am wondering if that will jump start my healing and give Randy a good wake up call! Hummmm!

Alisse, I wish I had some advice for you! But why did he keep the film??? I hired a PI, and 1000's of dollars later, he snapped my H. and his hob*tch them making out! That was so difficult for me to see.

Time for me to take kickboxing lessons. I have so much enegry that I don't know what to do with.

Get rid of those pictures, film what ever it is.
Mine is in a safety deposit box. My sister and I have the keys. I am not sure if I can bear to see them ever.

Keep on posting!
Ali

Starfish and John, thank you very much.

I've trying so hard to get through to my H about the honesty thing and the zero contact with OW policy. He feels that because the A is over for him, I should let go, stop disabusing my mind and move on.

I believe, deep in me, that he is sincere in working for a better marriage. But his fears of my "volatile temper" (his words) make him bend the truth.

My H and I are willing to go into therapy. Fact is, we were in therapy after the discovery for about 5 months. But I refused to go on when I lost confidence in the MC, whom I thought was merely parroting knowledge right out of a book.

We live in Metro Manila (Philippines), where seeking marriage counseling has not gained ground yet and effective MCs are still hard to find.

I got interested in Marriage Builders when I was surfing last week (in desperation). I am familiar with Dr. Harley through his book "His Needs, Her Needs". I have a copy and found it extremely helpful.

I am joining this forum because I need to talk to somebody who has gone and is going through the pain caused by extra-marital affairs. I don't want to confide in friends and family because I don't want
them to think badly of my H.

Despite his weakness, he is still a very good man.

I wish you could also enlighten him on what living
with someone you are having great difficulty in trusting is like.

God bless.

Ali88, thanks for the company.

I'm not sure why he kept the film. Probably, it's God's way of telling me how badly things got out of hand.

I'm so glad there is someone I can now share the pain of seeing such images with.

The negatives have been destroyed but my memory of them lingers.

Hope to hear from you again.

Ali,

The seminar provided my husband (not just me) with the tools and understanding to begin real recovery. Until that point, because he works so much.....he never had time to simply sit down and read the material....and "teaching" him, would have been a HUGE LB. Hearing Harley speak in person is very powerful and convincing. He appeals very much to the men....because his approach is logical. You receive all of the books and tapes as a part of the seminar. Plus, you have assignments and can go to a speacial part of the forum afterwards. It was definitely the turning point in my marriage. I do highly recommend it to anyone.

Alisse,

You know I just moved to the states from Venezuela. I did phone counseling from there with Steve Harley and found it very helpful. I know that cerri does marriage coaching by email....so you could contact her since your resources are limited. I'm glad you're here...hope you didn't mind me giving you a thread....I was afraid your post would get lost or ignored on someone else's thread.

Good Luck to both of you.

<small>[ July 12, 2003, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Dear, dear Starfish:

Don't know how to thank you enough for "setting me up" in this forum.

You have no idea how good I now feel knowing that I can bawl my heart out to people who can and do feel with me.

It's not easy to confide in friends and family here, you know, even if they can give us a pretty strong support group. No matter how well-meaning they can be, people around here (yes, friends and family too) just cannot resist making judgments and losing out on confidentiality.

Actually, my H's A was an eye-opener for both of us. And we have recognized the wrong we have done to our marriage. We both want to stay married to each other.

But a huge pile of garbage is getting in our way. So we need you, guys, to help us in throwing this garbage out.

I do believe that while MCs do a good job in the success of surviving an infidelity, it's what "amateurs" or people who have gone or are going through the nightmare that matters too. BIRDS OF THE SAME FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER AND FEEL SAFE WITH EACH OTHER.

It's not easy, at least for me, to divulge a trauma
unless I can feel great security in doing so. What greater security can I get from people of my flock?

A professional is a professional, but he/she is not one of us. You know what I mean.

Yes, I am going to communicate with Cerri. Thanks for the advice.

You know, guys, I am feel so much connected to you already.

Since this is the first I am joining a net forum, I was pretty skeptical about the good I would get from it, initially. But now, I'm so so glad I made the plunge.

Bye for now.

or people who go through the nightmare

Alisse,

It's a strange dynamic....and certainly one I don't recommend....but I will say this. My H's affair, did the same thing for us....opened doors. It woke us up and made us look at what we truly wanted out of a relationship. And MB gave a recovery plan that could help us have the kind of marriage I had always wanted. One that includes the Four Rules of a Successful Marriage....time, care, protection and honesty.

Keep posting. I know when I was living so far away, and outside of a place where support was available, MB was a kind of life-line for me. I'm glad you're here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Alisse,

Welcome to MB. I cannot add to the great suggestions you have already received.

Hi there!

The image is lazed in to my head forever. But that is just them making out. Having her hands on his butt and others on his shoulders and wrapped around him. Not what you had! What you must be going through!
I am on the war path so it is not a good idea for me to continuing posting.
But I am here if you want to gab and find away maybe you and I can find away to remove this awful site from our minds!
Ali

Sue, thanks.

Stafish:

I'm really glad to be here. Being able to vent some of the emotions long buried deep can be quite liberating. Will continue posting, I promise.

Hi, Ali.

I hope I will not cause the worsening of your emotional state right now if I do talk to you about those horrible negatives. Like you, the images just won't leave my mind....as well as the rage and pain at the thought of his participating in such an obscenity. H and OW were having fun, in their drunkenness. But in doing so, they were destroying a life. His asking me for forgiveness and crying while telling me how ashamed he has been of (what he called) his nightmare and his destroying the negatives have not repaired the massive damage inflicted upon me.

Do you know that I bring those painful images with me to bed during our lovemaking? Most times, I bite my lips and will my body to feel numb so I don't feel the pain. Other times, when I can't endure the pain, I tell him, "Not tonight". There have also been several occasions when I had to stop him in the middle of love-making and turn to my side of the bed.

My H finds my behavior discomforting. After all, he says, what happened is in the past. We have to put all that away and move on. "How?", I ask him. And just cry and cry and cry. As I am crying now. I have not gotten this through him all this time. He can destroy the negatives in an instant, but he cannot erase the memory of those images in my mind
in, probably, my lifetime.

I'm sorry for putting you through this, Ali. I can
imagine how this is causing you much pain, too.
But I truly appreciate your willingness to allow me to vent.

I have always thought that letting it all out can help ease the pain. And with someone who has an idea of what you're going through.

Thanks, Ali. I'm ready for your turn.

Alisse,

My H's night of debauchery was in a Thai brothel. I don't know if you know anything about Thailand, but they are known throughout the world as catering to every possible interest and for having very young girls in the business. I can tell you, that the images I saw stuck with me for a long time....and I didn't think they would ever let go. They certainly haunted the bedroom.

Eventually, what happens for most folks I think (don't know) is probably similar to what happened to me. All of us, have many snapshots and photos of our lives....the mental kind. The ones for my marriage were taken over twenty years of marriage. For a while....those awful pictures seem to dominate our consciousness and block out the others, but eventually the others begin to slip back in. The pics don't go away, but they begin to carry the weight they should when they are weighed against a lifetime of photos. The timing is different for each of us, but now....I have to make a significant effort to conjure up those images. Oh every now and then I get a "flash", but the acute phase is over and the images don't have the power to hurt me so deeply unless I truly focus on them. When I began to focus on the positive aspects of my marriage....the images changed....over time.

Starfish,

I read, somewhere in this board, someone saying that after an A, there will be three sharing the marital bed. And the third party is simply a memory to the aggrieved.

What a hellish life I still am in! Despite the fact that the A happened 4 years ago.

However, talking to you and the others lightens up the load.

Till next time. Thanks.

I really feel for alise..and for the life of me , i wish and hope it will never happen to me, i admire your strength. Iim also in the pits now coz i caught my H posting on this male adult website about him visiting a massage/spa parlor and ended up doing it with the attendant , with vivid descriptions on what transpired, when i confronted him, he said he just made it all up for the other guys to read since he never had anything "interesting" to post. He assured me it's just a concoted story..He's a very nice guy and has been treating me well, except for few spats about small things, we never had any serious issues, until this one..I wanna believe him , but i just can't seem to forget what he wrote, true or not..What should i do? Just let this go and just take his word for it? I love him and i wanna trust him, but as of now, although we're really ok, i can't help but think about that incident, factual or insinuated, He's pretty supportive everytime i bring it up, he never gets impatient and still assures me of his loyalty and love..Sam i just creating a ghost that just can't seem to haunt me? or am i simply crazy?

Hi, Imma. Glad you're here.

When I saw what was in those negatives, I was really crushed. During the confrontation, my husband called the porno shoot the worst nightmare in his entire life. He said he was so ashamed and as he asked for my forgiveness, he cried and curled himself on the floor.

But the images continue to parade before me, making
me depressed often. Starfish has advised me to try hard to bring in pictures of happy times.

My husband is a good man. Like your husband, he treats me very well, too. He is also very loving towards our two children.

Ours is not exactly a perfect marriage, but we were comfortable and contented with each other.

Nonetheless, he got tempted.

And this one particular act of recklessness has turned my world drastically around and left me utterly miserable. No matter how much he has tried doing all possible means to show me his remorse and sincerity in making it up to me, I continue to be very angry and in great pain.

However, I found out that talking about my suffering with people who have gone / who go through the same experience eases the pain. That's why I'm thankful I stumbled into this forum.

Like you I am a new member, too. First time to login was July 12, 2003.

Imma, I am afraid to answer your questions. I may not know how best to address them. I just hope some
older members drop in this thread and read your message.

Starfish and John, where are you? Please talk to Imma.

Hi Alisse,

In no means did you bring up any horrible memories! I was having a really bad day and it so happens that you and I have a simular situation. I was thinking about the pictures when I came across your post. But the picures will be imprinted in my head and the visual of them having sex for a loooong time! I am sure you can relate!
I hope you are getting a lot of info from this site! I sure have. Though it is taking me a longer time to start to heal because my H. is very insensitive to what he did to me!
Keep posting and let me know if you need to vent about the feelings you have regarding the film.
I cannot really give good advice because I am still going through this. But there are a lot of posters that has started the healing process or that has come a long way that has some excellant advice!

I will be thinking of you!
Ali

Thanks, Ali.

What wonders being able to unload some bit can make!

Right now, I can push the pain and the images aside for a while and do more productive things around the house. Have cleared cabinets of non-essentials.
Boy, never realized we had kept so much trash all this time!

I hope you have been feeling better lately.

Will hear from you again.