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im new here, first post, so hello to everyone.
this is my problem. for some months now i've felt something wasn't right with my wife, something different, and i've been secretly searching for clues for something, anything.
just last saturday i got into her email account, without her permission and discovered an email from a Male friend of hers, a soldier, who is currently deployed to Iraq. i've never met him but she has talked of him. they would at times see each other when she would go out with her girlfriends to the clubs.
the email reads as follows: ******************************** "Hello Finally got a chance to use the net. It was spo nice hearing your voice. So what's t is that you were thinking about me? I'm curious. About that night we went out. Don't feel bad. I guess after all those months of attraction it was meant to happen. I loved your touch! I have to go for now. I will try to call you soon! I don't know when I will be able to write an e-mail again Take care and thinking of you" *************************************** when i discovered it i was furious, and almost fell out of my chair in disbelief that my thoughts were true, something had occurred.
when i confronted her with it, she denies anything ever happened and cannot explain why he wrote what he did.
im so confused. i love her so much . and she says she loves me and wants our marriage to work, and this and that.
i've told her i'll get over it and try to forget and take her word that she is telling the truth, but it is so hard.
i need some advice, please.
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hi I am beginning to think if people don't need a computer for work..then don't have a dial up or go online use it for research and games.
I don't think it is right for women to go out for drinks to bars with friends.. my daughter in law did that and broke my sons heart, she ended up with the bar tender got pregnant married him and he beat her and ended up tossing her out on her rear then she got together with him again pregnant then he beat her again..he is now in jail..she wanted my son back, did not happen..
but he is remarried 2 children with another wife who runs around..and he puts up with it..shrug..don't know what to tell you, I think pretending it isn't true is not a good idea. you both need to deal with it..so it don't happen a gain.
it will be hard, but she needs to know you do not believe her. I don't believe her..I think she is playing you for a fool..and I think it was because she was in the position for it to happen and it did..tell her no more night outings with the opposite sex..have her stay home..why do people get married? isn't it to be with each other and give up that nite life?? shrug..
God help you..maybe talk to a minister and get to church..for some help.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
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Sadeyes, thanks for the reply. i've told her we need to go to marriage counseling to work this out and she has agreed, though she still denies anything happened. so hopefully something good will come out of this.
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Read Harley's basic concepts together. Do what it says you have to do. Your marriage will improve. Figure out what your needs are. Meet her needs. You will get through this. God luck.
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maybe this article will help you. and the list at the end..show this to her too.. I am glad to hear your going to marriage councelling. make sure you check them out first..
hope this article helps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Are you a woman who shares secrets with a male friend?
Are you the kind of man who reviews his weekend plans with a female co-worker?
Or do you go out for drinks with a colleague of the opposite sex?
If you are married and answer yes to any of these questions, then therapist
M. Gary Neuman has a word to describe your behavior: Unfaithful.
"We can't fool ourselves into believing that we can have intimate relationships at work and still have a great relationship at home," says Neuman.
"My message is that if you want to infuse passion and have a buddy for the rest of your life, you have to keep that emotional content in your marriage.
Otherwise, it's not going to happen."
Neuman, a Miami Beach psychologist, has raised hackles in the marriage counseling field with his recently published book, Emotional Infidelity, (Random House, $24) that decries male-female friendships outside marriage as a form of adultery.
The funny thing is that while Neuman's views may seem extreme, even his critics say his central premise - that friendships between members of the opposite sex can harm marriages - is probably valid.
"It's a concern," says Shirley Glass, an Owings Mills psychologist and longtime researcher into marital infidelity. "Many love affairs begin just that way."
Marital infidelity, the sexual kind, is hardly an uncommon phenomenon in contemporary America. Nor does it show any sign of abating. According to a 1998 survey by the University of Chicago, about 25 percent of married men and 17 percent of married women in this country admit to having been unfaithful.
Glass suspects those numbers are too low. Her own research suggests it is probably closer to 25 percent of women and 40 to 50 percent of men.
When is friendship an infidelity?
How many married men and women might admit to an emotional infidelity? Probably 55 to 65 percent, she says, and she thinks the numbers are growing.
Her own definition of emotional infidelity is somewhat more cautious than Newman's, however. Glass thinks a friendship between members of the opposite sex must have 3 traits to be an infidelity: emotional intimacy that is greater than in the marriage, sexual tension, and secrecy.
"Friendship becomes a problem when it becomes a replacement for a marriage or takes place outside a marriage," says Glass.
Hamit Aizen, 38, of Reisterstown says she used to think that other-gender friends were fine for married couples - but after nine years of marriage she no longer feels that way. Instead, she puts a greater priority on preserving intimacy with her husband.
"I don't think I would ever cross the line, but I'm really cautious," says Aizen, a part-time teacher. "The longer you're married, you sometimes start looking for other things."
A Baltimore native and married father of five, Neuman, 37, believes society has generally underestimated how harmful these emotional infidelities can be. He has counseled too many couples not to have noticed that marriages suffer when men and women seek intimate relationships outside the home.
Even if the relationship doesn't escalate to sex, it can be debilitating to the marriage. "If you put the majority of your emotions in the hands of someone other than your spouse, you're still shortchanging your spouse," he says.
Consider, he says, the husband who gripes about work with a female co-worker and then comes home and doesn't really want to repeat his complaints all over again with his wife. The result? She is isolated from a significant part of his life.
Or what about the wife who flirts with other men? Will she feel better or worse about her marriage when she compares their reaction to her husband's behavior? He may seem much less fun and exciting.Divided loyalties
In his book, Neuman points to the workplace as Ground Zero for the problem of emotional infidelity. Research shows it's where the majority of extramarital affairs get started - perhaps as high as 73 percent, according to one study.
He sees opportunities for inappropriate behavior behind every lunch, every trip for drinks after work, and every business trip where men and women are thrust into prolonged social contact without their spouses.
Modern "team building" retreats where male and female co-workers climb walls or rappel down cliffs? Neuman would like to see them come to an immediate end.
"We have hard and fast decisions to make," he says. "What's the most meaningful thing in your life? We can't fool ourselves into thinking we can have these intimate relationships at work and still have a great relationship at home."
Neuman admits his views are unconventional. But in the three months since his book hit the stores, the volume of hate mail he's received has surprised him. Many of those letters are from women who angrily accuse him of condemning the presence of educated women in the work force and rekindling a kind of Victorian attitude toward them.
Even Glass thinks he overstates the harmfulness of a friendship. "It's fine as long as it's not a replacement for marriage. You just have to ask: If you say or do things you wouldn't want your spouse to see or hear then you need to take a few steps back," she says.
Nevertheless, Neuman insists he has not overstated the destructiveness - if only because marriages can be such fragile things that get neglected and too easily reduced to "kids and bills."
"I'm not the crazy one here," says Neuman, who stirred far less controversy with his past writings (mostly about how to protect children from the harmfulness of divorce). "We need new standards."
He points to the Internet as an example of how men and women can have emotional entanglements without physical contact. He has heard stories of people who have spent hours on the Web sharing secrets with people they'll probably never meet - and in the process denying their spouse the same intimacies.
Marlene Maheu, author of Infidelity on the Internet (Source Books, 2001), agrees that such relationships can be a "serious disruption" to a marriage. In an increasingly wired world, e-mail can be a 24/7 presence, its content witty and provocative, placing no demands on the reader other than to be read. What spouse can compete with that?
"If you're telling someone your secrets and confiding in them and telling them what's going on in your real relationship, the other person is in a position to tell you whatever you want to hear," says Maheu, a San Diego psychologist.
Susan Townsend, a Towson psychologist, says it is usually the emotional intimacy that develops in affairs that devastates marriages, not the fact that one partner has had sex with another. Whether that develops over the Internet or from direct contact doesn't seem to matter.
"People can end up feeling isolated and lonely in their marriage," says Townsend, who teaches a course called PAIRS (Practical Application of Intimate Relationship Skills) to couples who want to improve their relationship.
Neuman's solution is to curb friendships with the opposite sex. He admits that not all such relationships are doomed to turn into affairs or even weaken marriages, but he believes all marriages would be stronger without them.
"Some people can handle it, yes. For those people who have a good friend and a good marriage, I can't disagree," he says. "I just say, why not take the challenge, stop the outside relationship and see if your marriage gets better?"
That would be fine for Barry Glazer, a 57-year-old lawyer living in Federal Hill, a student in Townsend's class, who says he's never believed married men and women should have close friendships outside marriage. Mother Nature, he says, just doesn't work that way.
"It's way too complicated. I worry it would be open to something more," says Glazer, who is in a long-term relationship. "Maybe that's not fair, but when you try to make nature fair, you're banging your head against the wall."
Still, Townsend and other therapists say such friendships are possible when both parties understand their boundaries. One of the first steps toward "affair-proofing" your marriage is simply to make sure a couple spends some time on a weekly basis having a meaningful conversation.
"The more a couple knows each other, the better off they are," she says. "If you strengthen the bond between the couple, there is not so much temptation to look elsewhere."
Glass suggests that friendships become a problem when there's some attraction involved. If you sense that chemistry, she says, that's when it's time to put the walls up - maybe avoid some social situations that "create more of a male-female situation."
"A reasonable safeguard is not to put women in burqas and have no contact," she says. "Maybe it's to take that person home to dinner with your spouse or take a few steps back."
Even safer, says Kim Michel, a 39-year-old Timonium resident, is to avoid friendships with people of the opposite sex. Last fall she enrolled in the PAIRS course after the breakup of her marriage. The experience has reinforced her view that marriages can be fragile things and deserve respect.
"Eventually, there comes a point where the line will be crossed in my opinion," she says. "I just don't see how there can be a great friendship. You need to make your husband or your wife your best friend."
10 Rules for Avoiding Emotional Infidelity
1. Keep it all business in the office.
2. Avoid meetings with members of the opposite sex outside the workplace.
3. Meet in groups.
4. Find polite ways of ending personal conversations.
5. Take particular care not to have regular (perhaps daily or even weekly) conversations about your life outside work.
6. Don't share your personal feelings.
7. Be unflinchingly honest with yourself.
8. Avoid cordial kisses and hugs, or dancing with members of the opposite sex.
9. Don't drink around the opposite sex.
10. Show your commitment to your spouse daily.
(Well I am sure after reading this you have more questions maybe IF she reads this she will open up and be truthful) good luck I am praying for you.
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Pussywillows, thanks for the advice, but how effective will it be if she still denies it?
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Sadeyes, thanks again. the article was informative and helpful. i'll try to get her to read it and hopefully she will open up, and not just get infuriated that i cant let this go, and stay in denial.
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Don't believe her, i don't. She will lie because she doesn't want to hurt you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
If you want the truth then try to reassure her that you will not act out and you need to know the truth.
Your best bet at getting the truth would be to talk to the other man. He may lie to, but has less to lose by telling the truth.
I agree with sadeyes, your wife or anyones wife should not be going to bars with her friends, atleast not without you.
Of course that doesn't prevent an affair, my wife never goes to bars.
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Hi,
Your wife is not telling you the truth and she is protecting herself from hurting you. I believe you have real concerns and if she can't be truly honest it will get much worce when the OM returns. Lets look at what he wrote her.
"So what's t is that you were thinking about me? I'm curious. About that night we went out. Don't feel bad. I guess after all those months of attraction it was meant to happen. I loved your touch!"
It says she has met him many time over months, why? You are letting her go out to bars or clubs is that the meeting place?. You found out early in the game and by accident. She needs to end this and re-commit to your marraige. She must write a no contact letter to this soldier and have YOU mail it. YOu need to put a great spy program in your computer by "iOpus" and see what is sent. But it's time for Radicle honesty, you deserve that at the very least.
A
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don't,
"it was meant to happen."
I think it's fair to suppose that "it" was not something a married lady should not have been doing. And it's clear that "it" obviously involved touching. So please, don't allow your wife to pull the wool over your eyes and make you feel like you are just jealous and paranoid. Something happened, and it would be in the best interest of your marriage to calmly get to the bottom of "it." Try to make it as safe as possible for her to be honest. That means no LBs or intimidation. Show her that you can "take" the truth calmly, and you will have the best chance of getting it. <small>[ July 20, 2003, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>
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Sadly, I agree with everyone else...She has done something...I have been in that position of knowing something and asked my H in very non-threatening ways if he slept with this co-worker he did admit to having feelings for. He looked me straight in the eyes a few times and said no. This is from a man that just didn't lie about things, but when it was over at that point he was afraid to ruin his marriage...She needs to be honest, how she will do that is unknown but she needs to come clean because you will never move on from it otherwise..Hope it all works out-will post more later-got to go..hang in there... <small>[ July 20, 2003, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: zacharysmom ]</small>
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Click on the link in my signature line
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I'm w/everyone else. I think "it" happened. I'm not exactly w/everyone on the "don't go to bars w/friends." Was she doing this regularly or just on occasion. Sounds like regularly and if so, why were you not invited?? Every once in a LONG while I'll meet friends at a restaurant/bar right after work but go home soon afterwards. If I know it's going to be a whole night thing (like a b-day party) I always invite my H.
He didn't return the favor.
Maybe MEN shouldn't be able to go to bars w/their friends????
Hey, that's another WHOLE CAN OF WORMS -- let's all not go there.
I do think "it" happened. She doesn't want to come clean yet. If y'all decide to follow the marriage builders program, she'll need to come clean BUT my H still didn't. Wasn't until I contacted OW and she spilled ALL THE BEANS! (She didn't want me to tell her H.)
I'm sorry you had to find out that way. I'm sure this guy is going to contact your W again. Where did he call her at do you think? They were definately getting together a lot before he left.
I know a LOT of younger people think that it's all good to still continue on after getting married -- the ole his space/her space thing. But we can all tell you here that it ends up biting you in the a**. Boundaries have to be set.
Read about boundaries too and start implementing them.
Good luck!
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SD: I hope you told her H anyway.
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johnh39,
No, I haven't told her H. I'm still struggling w/that. A good friend of mine (male) has said I need to tell him too. Said he would if I didn't.
I've just been trying to figure out how to go about it. I don't want this OW's H to know our phone numbers or where we live just in case he is violent or becomes violent, etc. I have a 3 year old and a 1 year old and don't want to add more drama into the mix of what is going on already.
I really think he should know, though. I was thinking maybe a letter then I thought against that because the OW might intercept (she might be the type that opens all the mail). I thought I could make a call from a pay phone and just try until he answers the phone. Then I thought maybe I could do a search and see if he comes up w/an e-mail account and e-mail him and I would just open a temp e-mail w/hotmail or something. But then, what if the OW reads his e-mail? She was hiding the A from her H right off though and makes me feel like she has done this before even though my H thinks he was the first. I think this because she always had my H call her cell phone because she had free incoming calls and that way her H wouldn't become suspicious by her racking up the charges. She also created a hotmail account right off (but my H said this was his prompting).
I honestly don't know what to do.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
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Hey Sods, I just did the letter thing to the OM's W yesterday which she received today. I kind of know her, but felt the letter might be less intrusive then showing up at the door. You can get "restricted delivery" from the USPS which means ONLY THAT person can receive the letter. I might not put the "correct" return address if you want to be safe. Restricted Mail Hey Don't know- Beware of the fog of affairs if this is the case, it can be tough to figure out. After discovering my W's A and confronting it to her, I found an email a week or 2 later that said "don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened." Clearly peole don't think logically even afterwards. I know not to take what she says to heart but this has been burned into mine.
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My H made the mistake of leaving his email open and while he was out I had a chance to read some email from another woman that happened to be the same women that my friend said she heard he was having an A with. In the email she told him how much she loved him and how she wanted a life with him some day. I just found all this 2 days ago. I know that what happened with you is what will happen to me. All he'll do is tell me a lie! When I asked him about what my friend told me he told me it was all a lie. I believed him for a while but then I start snooping around trying to find any kind of proof. It's all hard to deal with.
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For those in this predicament, I recommend installing tracking software such as Starr from Iopus. Using the principle of radical honesty, you have the right to do such monitoring. In my case, Zorweb insisted, and I agreed, that in order for her to heal all my computer activity had to be monitored ... but we extended it to all the computers in the house. Secondly, by doing so, you can print out the Starr log files and confront your spouse to help dispel the fog. Lastly, if there are other accounts of which you are unaware, they will come to light using this software, which can run in stealth mode. It is TOTALLY undetectable ... I have tried everything I know to disable it (with Zorweb's knowledge), finding it a professional challenge. Short of wiping the harddrive and reinstalling the operating system, I found nothing that was effective ... Starr records it all, and does not let it be known that it is there if it is in stealth mode. Protect yourself and remember that knowledge IS power. Godspeed, STL
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