NEW THREAD - Previous thread was Her TRO is.....

I have been out of the house since May 4th of 2003. My W had a TRO filed against me for DV complaint (absolute lie - but I was physically abusive, once, 5 years ago, just after my PA ended). The TRO was overturned, but she changed the locks during my absense, so I am locked out of the house. She says she wants a D but has not taken action that I know of. She has an atty from the TRO hearing, but she is waiting for ????
She admitted to an EA when I confronted her (based on info from several neighbors and my SIL. My neighbor's stories indicate a PA; my SIL says it didn't get that far; my W says she dumped him because he was as screwed up as me, if not worse. I don't know, and I guess if she went that far with another man (PA) I forgive her because I had my PA first.

During the TRO, I saw our children (D:7-1/2 yrs old and our S:3 yrs) one time each weekend for the five weeks. Since then, I see them both Sat and Sun of every weekend. This past week, it has been Sat, Sun, Mon, Tue (tonite), for a variety of reasons. One being, I took my W to the dentist because she had noone to drive her (she was getting heavily sedated). I also did her food shopping yesterday (still grogged out from the meds). Tonight was because she wanted me to spend more time with our S (away from our D).

I did make one mistake tonight because when our S and I returned I walked right into the house. My W was surprised and wanted to know how I got in. I told her that the door was unlocked. I don't think she believes me (I have told her that I was going to move back into the house soon because she has not filed yet). I would stay in the basement. She said no because I am a violent man. Over the past few year I have gone away on a Men's Weekend (Sterling Institute of Relationship - June 2002), joined a Men's team for support, and taken countless hours of therapy. My W even said that through all of this I became the man she wishes I was when we met and married...."but I can't get over the affair...or that you are a sex addict." I have done some behavior that I am not proud of in the past, and I don't believe I am a SA. However, I am seeing a new therapist tomorrow, so....

So here is where I stand right now. I am reading SAA and just finished the Rule of Care. Great book so far. Don't know how I can get my W into it (if I should). She saw the book in my car and from the title, she thought it was about me continuing my A with the OW at my job (yes, I still work with this OW 5 years after the A - I am looking for a new job/career though).

My question here is how do I Plan A (if I should be?) when I am out of the house?

TTSMM

<small>[ July 23, 2003, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: tryingTOsaveMYmarriage ]</small>

ttsmm,

I posted on the other thread. Just to add something.

I am sure you can plan A while you are not at the house. Try not to grovel and seem too desperate. Just try to meet her EN's as best you can but hold your head high and build some self esteem. You are a changed good husband.

You have made the effort to better yourself. You know you are better. Just be your( confident )self and hopefully she will see it. Always remember that you will only be prolonging the inevitable if you force the issue. Try be a bit more fatalistic so that you don't become too desperate.

Good luck.

Rho

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> how do I Plan A (if I should be?) when I am out of the house </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you think your wife's top five needs are? Which of her needs were you meeting before you were married?

Rhodie,
Thanks. I will be only answering this thread from now on, hopefully <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

john39 wrote...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Plan A is really a strategy to seperate a spouse from a lover. So, I don't think you should be in Plan A. I think you should be negotiating for everything, with the possible exception of moving back to the house. I think you should. It is your house as much as hers, right? I see no reason to sleep in the basement, either, or the locks, unless you fear she might be violent. If you could convince her to agree to this, it would be much better, though. You will obviously have to come up with an offer of something she wants in exchange for doing this.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, I don't know if I should be Plan A'ing.

Concerning th house and basement, I have new info. I met with a new therapist today and I'll get into HIS take on the situ in a bit. One thing he did say, "You are acting like a puppy dog waiting for your master to take you back." Ouch. "She needs to know that she doesn't deserve to be with you."
Too much info could be a bad thing. Too much advice can be confusing. IS confusing.

I feel like he was empowering me, at the same time this is difficult because I know I did wrong (the PA) and I am accepting her behavior. Perhaps, acting like a willing victim.

He told me (suggested) that I start to get into debt. I should get an apartment, buy some expensive things on credit, etc. This puts my financial situ in my favor if we D.
I CAN'T STAND THESE F'in GAMES! Why can't she sit down with me and discuss things? Based on her actions/words, I don't know if she wants a D or not. She hasn't taken the advice of her counselor, her friends and family (originally - now, they're in her corner), etc. She is full of so much pain, but it appears, she enjoys being there.

My new therapist said I need to take a firmer stand with her. A lot of his advice goes against the MB philosophy. This is what I meant by too much info from too may people.

On another note, I went to a new physician, for some anti-D's. I have felt depressed and have done some things that might be warnings: I drove double the speed limit on a very winding road. I just want the pain to stop.
He has prescribed Zoloft. It takes 4-6 weeks to take affect, but then need to take it for 6 months minimum. I don't want to be drugged up all the time. I was looking for something to take when I feel down or suicidal. A friend suggested chocolate and said that I am going through this depression and should accept it.

Don't know if I mentioned in other thread, this has been a difficult year: my dad passed away in Aug 2002, my Mom in Mar 2003, and now this separation. I have not had a chance to mourn for either fully. In fact, less than five feet away from me is a small bag containing the articles in my Mom's pocket when she was admitted to the ER. I haven't had a chance to go through this bag and let go.

I am tearing up right now. I think I need to get to bed.

TTSMM

PS
AFS,
I will answer your question tomorrow.

Zorweb,
Just read something from "Women who have an Affair with Married Men". Your quote

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When someone does wrong and does not ask for forgiveness or understanding then you are overstepping your bounds in going there. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That stopped me in my tracks. I relate this to why I told my W I forgive her for her EA (PA?) w/o her ever asking. It was wrong to offer her forgiveness for something she hasn't approached me about or has shown remorse for.

Thanks,
TTSMM

TTSMM,

Sorry for my negative remarks from before. You and I are on different ends of this situation. I must say I admire your persistence.

I know you've been doing too much reading already, but I just finished reading a book and I enjoyed it VERY MUCH and thought you might want to give it a try. It's easy reading and you'll finish it in just a few days/nights.

It's called: After the Affair: Healing the Pain and Rebuilding Trust When a Partner Has Been Unfaithful by Janis A. Spring .

I'm not recommending this book as a substitute to anything else, as they all basically overlap, but for those of you who might be interested in reading it, let me compare it to Surviving an Affair.
Basically, they both talk about what led to the affair, but they do it in different ways.
Remember when you were going to school and the teacher would explain a concept you wouldn't understand, and then you would ask the classmate sitting next to you and they would say the SAME thing but you'd understand it better? That's basically what happens here. The two talk about the same things but in their own different ways.

What I liked about After the Affair was also the fact that it seemed to focus on the "hurt partner" as she calls it, a lot. And as the "hurt partner" it felt good to understand what I was going through and why.
I think it will be useful to you to read this book and see it from her perspective. And let me remind you that as far as I'm concerned this book explains the way I THINK and the way I FEEL with 90% accuracy, word by word.

<small>[ July 25, 2003, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Yzzil ]</small>

AFS,
I believe my W's ENs would now be...
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honesty and Openness
  Admiration
  Conversation
  Financial Support
  Physical Attractiveness</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When we were courting, I would say they were... </font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Conversation
  Honesty and Openness
  Affection
  Physical Attractiveness
  Admiration</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Where I have scr***d up in the past has been fulfilling these needs I would want them for me.
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honesty and Openness - in the beginning I would be totally honest, when I would be "critiqued" and more, I held back because I could stand the stupid arguements.
  Admiration - I would appreciate my W (GF at the time) but I gave up when my comments were shunned 3 times. Ex:
  Me - Honey, you made a great meal.
  W - No, I just threw it together.
  Me - Really, it was excellent.
  W - It was nothing special.
  Me - I thought it tasted fantastic.
  W - Please, it was nothing great.
  I gave up after 3 tries at complimenting because I felt if she didn't want my compliments, I won't give them. I realize now that because she had/has low self-esteem, she needed me to stroke her more and not give up. That is why I feel/know that she is SO unforgiving with my A.
  Conversation - I was not a good listener. Interrupted her (she interupted me, but this should not be tit-for-tat). Rushed her to "get to the point". Tried to fix her.
  Financial Support - When we first met I was not well off, not that we are now, but, our financial situ improved 100% (double salary since we met, bought a house, 2 cars [used]). Problems were/are? never good at keeping/saving money: in deep debt twice; sometimes we were unable to put enough food on our table; first date was dutch - that was a "No No".
  Affection - I believe in PDA's (public displays of affection) and am very touchy-feely. She was/is? the opposite. However, she did have her affectionate gestures, and instead of playiong along with hers, I would compete to create my own.
  Physical Attractiveness - I did not dress the best (having come from a very poor family - back to Financial Support). My teeth are crooked and after 8 years into our R she didn't want to kiss me because of that (again, back to Financial Support - could not afford $4-6,000 to get my smile fixed). Now, every time I have attempted to save the money to fix, we have had "things" come up.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was definitely not a man when we met and married. I was not going to be controlled by anyone, especially by someone I love and want to spend the rest of my life. But it wasn't only that, I behaved in a childish manner and when she would comment on it, I pretty much ignored or retaliated saying, I'm not childish, I'm acting child-like. I was into my acting, singing, etc. when we met; therefore, this was part of my inner/outer theatrical work. Now I know this is b**l s**t.
What is difficult for me to swallow for now is that with all the work I have done over the last few years: counselling, men's weekend, men's team, etc...; she says I am great father and with my interpersonal work, "You have become the man I wish you were when we met....but, I cannot forgive the A."
That's it for now. I will post tomorrow about my evening (this evening) at home with the kids.

Regards,
TTSMM

TTSM,

You are doing just fine. Plan A with your wife may take quite a while before she believes that the changes you are making are real. Don't give up.....6 months is a reasonable time frame. The crucial thing right now is to stop LBs. What are the things that withdraws from the Love Bank? What are you doing to stop those?

All,
I'll try to keep this brief (my men's team says my stories are too long).

Yesterday, I was over at our house to take my W's Jeep for a checkup. Afterwards, I walked into the house, univited (but I did not use any force), and spent time with our kids. We watched TV and talked. My W stayed upstairs, watching TV except for when she handed me my mail. Our D offered me some juice and snacks.
After about 2 hours, my W decided to go to the store for somethings. She actually left me in the house. I packed up some clothes that I needed and threw them into the car.

She had emptied my entire dresser into my closet. My dresser is being used for nothing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . Sorry it hurts!

When she returned, she had ice cream for the kids, and after a bit, offrered some to me. I stayed about three-and-ahalf hours and it was great to be with kids.

Few issues yesterday.
She had asked about today (Sat.) and about my camping trip. Earlier in the week, I told her that I was going to relax on Sat, haven't been sleeping well, and then I have to go into work at 6PM. This is why I would not be seeing the kids until Sun. "Oh...OK." she said.
When I brought my ice cream bowl to the kitchen, I decided to place all the dishes, small pile in the sink, into the dishwasher. She came downstairs to find out what the noise was and was upset??? because of this. She said she would do it in the morning. "Don't you want to spend time with kids?" she said.

Now for today.
I went to bed about 12:30, just can't fall asleep. My W called my cell at 9:30 AM and I was fast asleep. She said she thought I would be at work....
It is very annoying about how she DOESN'T listen to me.
She said she found out about the Jeep and that it would take half a day to repair. That she would be without a car on the weekend. Without saying it, she was asking for my help. No, I didn't help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . I asked if she could ask a neighbor and she told me that she doesn't think so. Being half a sleep, I couldn't help. But, I did ask her to get more info. She found out from the shop that it would be best for her to bring it in on Monday, so...I am picking her and the kids up at 6:30 AM to drop off the Jeep and bring them back home. She was appreciative and apologized for waking me.
Afterwards, I could not go back to sleep.

This was the short version? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

More posts later,
TTSMM

I am so f*****g p****d at myself right now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

She calls me at work and gets upset with me because, earlier when we talked, I suggested that she go out to the gym and I would watch the kids. I suggested this because she keeps telling me how tired she is and how our S wakes her up everyday at 4-5 AM. SHe wishes she could just sleeo all day. So I suggested, (W - "Don't tell me what to do.") that she go, while I watch the kids in the house.

She feels I am slithering back into her life, by being so nice to her; and doing things for her. She said, of course that's you, you area manipulator.

I didn't lose it but I did bring up than don't speak to me any more, and she said this is how our talks always end up. I told then she should divorce me already (wrong on my part - and how I am suppose to just sit here and listen to this crap all the time).
My thougts - DIVORCE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO WORK ON IT. OR SAY, "YOU HURT ME SO NOW I AM GOING TO HURT YOU."
I told that she had an EA and she siad well you stuck your penis in her. I said true, and it was sex only, but/and an EA can be just as devistating.

She then hung up the phone on me.
That's when I started this post, then...

She calls again, and said...
She never realized that she assumes too much. That I was right (because I told that instead of thinking that at s what I meant by my actions and/or words, ASK ME.
She then told me about her personal trainer; how he dresses, smells good, great talker, etc... But, he is sleazy, like you. I have been attracted to sleazy men, but never again.

W-"We've been separated for two months and I know you have been sleeping around...and you should. I no longer have any feelings for you of love. Hopefully in the future I'll (she'll) find someone who ...."
I forgot her words, BECAUSE I am suppose to working now, but, instead I am writing a post because I am so FUC**** ANGRY.

Can someone out there direct me to a thred where the WS was experienceing the same roller coaster. Why doesn't she divorce me if she says that it is over? Why?!?!?!?!?!?

I'm sure I did a lot of LBing in this conversation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Back to work now.

TTSMM

TTSMM:

You want to be "right" or married? If it is not a positive comment, don't say it. Bite your tongue, sit on your hands, whatever it takes.

Plan A. Plan A. Plan A. No lovebusters none.

The niceness of Plan A will win out as long as you don't undercut it with lovebusters. Once she sees that the Plan A is about you making a better you.

The beauty of Plan A is that you both can win. It is not a win-lose thing.

Godspeed to you both,
STL

STL,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You want to be "right" or married? If it is not a positive comment, don't say it. Bite your tongue, sit on your hands, whatever it takes.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">God, that is going to be difficult. But, it is worth it. My family is definitely worth it.

I had a very good Sunday. Got to the house at 9:30 to take kids to church. My W asked about the pool, etc. I said that I didn't feel like the pool and I really have been spending too much money these past weeks taking the kids to various attractions. I want to stay here and play with the kids. She reluctantly agreed and saud she was going to sleep in. When we returned from church, she said that she was going to the gym. OK.
After she left, I snooped around the entire house. She took her heavy storage box and hid/took it with her. Don't know. (In this box are the pics of her wrists - see previous posts; letters to lawyers, notes of our arguements, email address, phone number of the OM). I was able to find the key, she did not hide it very well . I also found some books she is reading: "How to succeed with Men" and "False Intimacy" (she told me about the first one - see previous posts - this is where she apologized for trying to make me her girlfriend). The other book is about sexual addiction. She also took/hid the extra set of house keys.
I went online and dl'd & installed the STARR software. I purchased the Pro version and just rec'd an email from the PC an hour ago. SWEEEEEEEEET software. I have a funny feeling inside. Part of me wants me to find no evidence of an A, and another part of me wants to find something I can bring to her about her EA/PA (no LBing though). I am just venting right now.

Played with the kids in the back yard: jumoing through our sprinklers, shooting the water hose at each other. Then we had lunch inside, watched TV and I took a very brief nap; my D made me feel guilty because I promised to play Bingo with her. With the lack of sleep lately...but I'm wide awake now - huh!!!!????
We starting playing Bingo just as my W came home. Not much conversation, but I was having fun with our D; S was napping upstairs. Earlier on, my W had said she was making pizza, and since I was helping her with the Jeep, she invited?!?!? me to have some. I had missed sitting down with my W and D because I had started mowing the lawn. After the jeep, my W and I did some work on the front lawn.
When everything was done, she said thank you several times. I the left for my friend's.

Overall, a very good day.

More posting tomorrow.

TTSMM

TTSMM:

All good, postitive steps you have take here.

Just to clarify: Starr is not about snooping, really. It is about enforcing radical honesty in an environment where at least one is not being honest. It also gives validity to you: that there, in black and white (and even color, if you save screenshot images), is proof positive that all is not well.

This serves, later, to dispel the fog into which WSs tend to sink. It is your rebuttal to revisionistic history.

It is your right to sanity.

I am glad that overall this day was better. We take our victories in bite-sized chunks here.

Godspeed,
STL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I believe my W's ENs would now be...

Honesty and Openness
Admiration
Conversation
Financial Support
Physical Attractiveness

When we were courting, I would say they were...
Conversation
Honesty and Openness
Affection
Physical Attractiveness
Admiration
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you made a plan yet to meet her needs? Try taking the EN Questionnaire as you think she would fill it out. List specific ways she likes those needs met. (What has had good results in the past?)

How sure are you about her top five? From your posts, it seems that she doesn't mind you being around while you are spending time with the children. I bet Family Commitment is in her top five, and a good way to deposit love units.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My teeth are crooked and after 8 years into our R she didn't want to kiss me because of that </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm just not buying it that after eight years she "suddenly" thought your teeth were too crooked to kiss you. I think she is using that as an excuse. She might not even know or understand the real reason herself.

Dear tryingTOsaveMYmarriage:

I have read your other thread as well as this one. How are you doing?

ttsmm,

Just checking up on you. Hope things are going OK. Be strong.

Rho

Hi ttsmm,
Haven't read any postings from you recently ... is everything OK?

Rhodie/Yzzil,
It hasn't been great for me, see Editted Title: Suicide Stopped - Thanks MB Forum Posters for an update of what has been going on.

I will not be posting to this thread anymore.

Thanks for your concern and support,
TTSMM

Sad news. My W called me at work an hour ago. She told me that she finished talking to her lawyer's asst and that tonight, at home, I was going to be served D papers. THIS IS THE DARKEST DAY OF MY LIFE! I am NOT thinking about suicide or anything like that. I said several 'Our Father's' to get myself through. I have a terrible pain in my stomach and my hands are trembling. "Thy Will be Done!" is all I keep saying. How do I act when I get home? How do I react when this stranger comes to my home and serves me the papers? GOD HELP ME!

TTSMM