Appleman,

Go to your counselor or your clergyman, and explain the situation about your sister. I think one or the other should be there when you tell her sister. I also suspect your sister suspects, but lives in HOPE.

As for your W, time will tell. You will be blamed but you MUST do the right thing. Get with it. I would definitely cancel your trip and get as much of this settled as you can especially the issue with your sister.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks for the response. I have been waivering on the trip. The thought of getting out of here and being with my best friend kind of sounds nice for a while. But, I need to sort things out.

18 days and counting on our 2nd Anniversary......45 days until the wedding.......I can't believe I am at the centre of all this..........

After you tell your sister, get, and read, "Survivng an Affair". You can re-read it with your wife later, if she is willing. The link in my signature line has some things to do and read while you await the arrival of SAA in the mail.

<small>[ July 24, 2003, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Appleman - let me join with the others in saying that this is no time to be going on a trip if there is any way that you can put if off until some other time.

Think of it like a "bad accident" where your wife and sister were badly injured. Would you go on a trip or would you be there to do all that you could to support and help?

The timing on these things are never convenient. But your marriage and your sister's impending marriage to this creep take precidence over anything else right now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what are the possibilities of her reaction next? What do I look for? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How about denial, anger, trying to "blame you" for all the things that she perceives as "justification" for the affair. But the high cost of indulging her selfish desires has to be exposed and she has to feel what she is giving up for this "wonderful" person. A "wonderful" person who has cheated on his fiance not once, but twice that we know of. Who got a woman pregant, married and then divorced her (I suspect it was for futher infidelity on his part), who thinks it's okay to seduce the wife of the man that is soon to be his brother-in-law, etc. The fantasy bubble needs to burst. Read about Plan A and implement Plan A. The choice, while difficult, is either him or you. If it's him, he has to "give up" your sister too (that should happen regardless of the outcome between you and your wife). Your wife then gets divorced, gets a known cheater with no compunctions about fidelity, gets his child support, gets his ex-wife involved in their lives for the rest of her life, gets her own family and your family likely estranged for years if not for a lifetime, etc.

I think you get the idea. She needs to actually see the OM for what he is and not what she fanatsizes about. Expect resistance because she is head over heals in infatuation with the slimeball and can't distinguish reality from fanatsy. Be patient and loving and firm....there is no room for another man in your marriage...period.

God bless.

<small>[ July 24, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

Appleman,

I'm sorry for what you're going through. I know that the emotions are just completely overwhelming and wide-ranging. But hang in there. It really does get better, regardless of the outcome.

I totally agree with getting anti-depressants. I speak from experience when I say that they really do help stabilize the emotional turmoil and clear the funk that your in emotionally. When I was on them, I remember noticing that suddenly I realized I could concentrate. I could focus. I could prioritize. That sick feeling in the pit of my stomach was gone. And for once, I was able to think clearly and rationally and make good decisions that were not based on emotion. I was on them for several months, and then when I felt like I could be med-free, I stopped taking them and have never needed them since.

I also agree with not going on the trip. Leaving your spouse alone with the knowledge that you know about her affair is probably a bad idea. Who knows what she'll be tempted to do while you're gone? And more importantly, it may be something she'll be tempted to hold against you later. Don't give her the chance to blame you for her being alone.

No one else has said this yet, but I think something else you MUST do is delete the emails you've read between your WS and OM. It simply is not healthy for you to go back and read and re-read them. Dwelling in the pain will only make it hurt more and longer. I might save a printed copy in case your sister needs proof, but then I'd get rid of those too.

As for telling your sister, I was going to suggest that you arrange for your sister and her fiance to come over one evening when your W is home, and then confront the OM in front of your sister. That way, you don't have to be the messenger, he can't avoid admitting to what he's done, and your sister can't deny that it happened. Then I saw that they are 3 hours away, so I don't guess that's a very practical solution. Maybe you could forward your wife's emails from OM to your sister? I don't know. I understand your resistance to being the messenger. But she really does need to know and with her wedding coming up so soon, the sooner you tell her, the better. She really should know this. Since she's your sister, maybe the two of you will be able to grieve together. I guess that depends on how close you are to your sister. I'm not sure I can give you any genuinely good suggestions for how to tell her, so if anyone out there has any objection to the suggestions I made, please feel free to speak up.
The how-to is the truly tough part on this one.

Good luck Appleman and stay strong! And by the way, kudos on choosing to stay in the marriage and try to make it work!

jen

You must tell your sister before she marries this scumbag. She has the right to know. Meanwhile you need to go on antidepressants to help you stay calm so you can deal more effectively with this situation. What you need to understand is that you cannot control the actions of your wife whether you stay around or leave. If she wants to go and meet this OM she will do so without your permission. You can only control what you are going to do. If you find that she is not remorseful and does not want to work on the marriage you have the power to divorce her and move on. Become informed on the principles of MB. I would also recommend a book called "Love must be tough" by Dr.J.Dobson.

Appleman -

Ouch! How dreadful!

Please get in touch with a counselor ASAP. You could try calling Penny at 1-877-416-2657. (Tell her Doofus, the spacey sex addict, sent you.)

I wish you the best of luck dealing with this awful situation. We'll all praying for ya, guy.

Thanks for all the support. My counsellor was able to get me in tomorrow morning. My wife still hasn't said anything, she has basically slept the whole day. Sometime with me by her side, holding her. She has even curled into me. But I am being patient, and not forcing anything at the moment.

My counsellor told me to hold off any action until we talk, so I am going to do that.

Thanks again guys, it...umm....sort of feels better, at times. I have cancelled my flight as well.

K, I asked her if she wanted to talk or if she had anything to say. She just said no, and that she is still processing. She almost has this nervous smug look on her face. I can't tell what it means.

Why can't she show some guilt? Does it sometimes take a while? What are her possible reactions when someone gets caught?

a-man,
like all the rest i find your current marital situatin to be mind boggling! and very problamatical in it's complexity. here's what it sounds like to me.

1. your wife initiated this affair and the OM isn't the kind of person to ever say no to an easy roll in the hay. this guy is pure mongrel and seeing that he never marries your sister has got to be one of your top priorities. and don't worry about how your sister will take it! she will have plenty of support from her loving family...and in the long run she will end up in a much better place for your efforts...so do it...call and tell her right away!

2. your wife is not sane at the moment. i think it was pepper who described being insane as having a different reality. well does this not describe your wife and her current behavior?

don't expect any apology from your wife. do not expect any explanation from her. right now, she is in another place and you have no relevance to her. i'm quite sure that her children don't even matter to her right now.

i know this is impossible for you to believe but stand back and look at her and how she's acting...try to clear your mind from the emotional trauma it's suffering and take a clear look at her! you will see that she is not the person you knew...not any longer.

3. what to do? get control of yourself! take care of you and your children. get therapy right away. get medicated if you need to. do what ever you must to begin seperating yourself from her insanity... if you don't, she will drag you into her world and you will end up tilting at windmills...questioning your own sanity. you simply must get yourself to a place where you have some perspective...an over view of the situation that allows you you to see things clearly.

4. do not beg, plead or cry. this will make you exceedingly unattractive to a person who doesn't find you very attractive at the moment anyway. instead, try to project an image of quiet dignity, understanding and self assurance.

no yelling, screaming or arguing! don't let her suck you into her sick world! you must stay above it. if you have to cry, and you will, go some place and do it alone! project no weakness to your wife right now or she will eat you alive. in her current state, her ability to be cruel is beyond anything you will be able to comprehend.

5. give up any thoughts of controlling her behavior. she will do as she pleases and the only control of the situation you will enjoy is the control you have over yourself.

6. tell the world. i don't care what anyone may say or advise this i know for sure and from personal experience. nothing,...nothing brings a person out of the fog and back to reality more quickly then the cold hard light of truth! when "everybody knows" the romance isn't quite as romantic...the mystery not quite as mysterious. when everybody knows, the world not is no longer void of problems.

i don't think you you will have long term issues with the OM. he's not looking for anything long term with your W. he sounds like a hit and run artist...a slam bam thank you mam kind of dude. no sir...your problem is your wife! how you handle her...the sensativity you bring to what's going on in her life and her mind...the understanding of her insanity and your willingness to be patient and tolerent...that is the problem as i see it.

finally my friend i can tell you that you're about to learn a lot about yourself. how you react to this problem can make or brake you as a person. no one can tell how things will turn out but if you work hard and stay in control of yourself, no matter what happens you can take something good from this mess and end up being a better man in the end. hard to believe i know but true.

good luck.
coach

Appleman:

You are in the unenviable position of having to do a morally right thing amid the chaos inflicted by others.

You are morally obligated to tell your sister. As Robert E. Lee said, "Do your duty in all things. You cannot do less, and you certainly cannot do more."

So do your sister, and yourself a big service: get that issue out of the way. Like previous posts; make sure your sister has a support network standing by ... and you should be part of it.

Plan A your wife. Start this very moment. Keep Plan B standing by.

Then take a deep breath and hold on, because the rollercoaster ride from Hell is about to begin in earnest. But here is the paradox: during that ride, if you and your wife discover, jointly implement, and live the MB prinicples ... the rollercoaster comes to a stop, and the ride from Hell becomes the lifetime you both envisioned.

Godspeed,
STL

Appleman, I'm a former WS, and I hope you don't mind me adding a quick thought. My infidelity wasn't discovered - I confessed, but based on my experience, I'm guessing that your wife might be in shock right now (which will add to her unexplainable behavior), and she probably doesn't know what to expect from you, either, so that might be scary for her, too. I wish you all the best, and will be praying for you both. God be with you as you go through this.

Well as long as we are quoting Robert E. Lee, Hi STL, I would like to offer you another quote from him.

"Honor is the most sublime word in the English language."

THink about that abit. The word is often misused or used as an excuse to do something horrible. But, it also calls one to action to do good.

You need to conduct yourself with Honor. That means telling and supporting your sister. It means offering your W another chance at your very young marriage, plan A. It means honesty, yup, "radical honesty" from you. Honesty delivered with care, kindness, and no LB's. But, honesty none the less.

Your sister need to be rid of this man, and I do have a feeling this won't surprise her as much as you think (the who part will, but not the act). She will be deeply hurt, but she won't be humiliated as she will be if she marries this turkey.

Got to be done, so after you talk with counselor and hopefully get a good strategy to tell your Sister, go for it. You can do no less, and Honor your sister and yourself.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks again for all the comments.

I have spoken to my counselor and she has been helpful. I can stand back and look clearly at the situation.

2 problems......one is that I keep having the images.....my wife and this man, it makes me sick. Second, is that I think she is going to leave for a while anyway. We had problems before this, and she was planning on leaving anyway, this just happened in the meantime.

It seemed like she has given up hope on us already, and then went and did this. So, I'm afraid that she is not going to see the light anytime soon. She needs to do what she has to, and I have to sit here and take it. I was too much of a jerk to her during our marriage, that she does not see it any better by staying with me.

I am planning on telling my sister in a few days. Why you ask? Because, she is working all this weekend on nights, and I don't want her to have to deal with this. I work shift work to, and when I confirmed all this I was in the middle of work, and ended up havoing to cancel my next shift. Just extra hassle she doesn't need. I am going to drive up to see her on Monday. I'm afraid of what my wife is going to say when she finds out that I am telling my sister. My counseller has re-affirmed me that it doesn't matter. I am not responsible for this, my wife and her fiance are. I know that, but I feel like it's going to drive another spike between us. It's got to happen, but it's really hard.

Thanks for that quote; it is one of my favorites. Unfortunately, most people do not ever contemplate the sublimity of honor.

Had I been thinking of it at the time, I would not have had my A, would I?

Appleman:

I must respectfully disagree with your counselor. While in an ideal world, your wife or her fiance would tell her, the cold reality in this is that you are the only one morally whole enough in this bizarre triangle at the moment to actually do so.

Godspeed,
STL

<small>[ July 25, 2003, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: SeenTheLight ]</small>

a-man,

Glad you got to see the counselor, and so sorry about your situation. I'm also gratified that you have a plan and time frame for telling your sister. Please think about calling your parents or someone else to be with you and give her support when she gets the news. I can't even imagine how difficult this is for you.

On top of that, you have to decide what you want to do with your marriage. Do you have it in mind to try and work things out with your wife. If so, perhaps you can start reading about a Plan A and focus your energy away from the pictures and whatever she plans on doing. Have you gotten a chance to talk to her again?

Sending hugs and prayers your way.

Sorry, SeenTheLight, I might have misrepresented what my counsellor said. She does think I should tell my sister. She has just re-affirmed me that it's not my fault and that it was my wife's and brother-in-laws fault.

We have talked some more, but we are just messed up. She is leaving anyway, do to the problems we were having, and she says this affair hasn't changed that. She has admitted that it was the wrong thing to do, but she doesn't look guilty, even though I have been stressing how hurt I am.

She just keeps saying she has to leave, but that there is still a chance for us, if I fix myself. (Other problems).

See, I got a mess to deal with. The affair hurts, but she was going to leave anyway. Plan A isn't really an option, if she isn't here.

Some people might see her action as a justification, but I do believe her. We were on the brink before this vacation(affair), and I was trying to get help to be a better father and husband. It's just that this happened. So, now I have 2 problems, 3 if you include my sister to deal with. I think I have got the sister thing under control. I have formed my plan, and set a date, so I feel relief there.

What a ride, sometimes I feel so positive about working things out, and other times I feel sick.

Appleman:

Yes, there were needs you were not fulfilling; that still does not excuse the affair. What have you to lose by doing a Plan A?

It is good that you recognize your shortcomings in the marriage. But has she? If not, it will end up being an Appleman bashing contest, and we will end up with applesauce.

I hope things work out in the long run,
Godspeed,
STL