Things just took a turn for the worst. I saw that she had emailed him from another account. So they are still communicating. I stressed to her not to be talking to him in our house, and tried to set limits. She just freaked and asked how I dare do this to her and that she is not going to live under constant surveillance. She nows says she is going to leave as soon as possible.

She is just basically lying outright to me, and running to him. Even after she's been exposed. Talk about more hurt all over again. I just don't see any form of recovery from this.

K, I am now checking her other email account, and he is repeatedly emailing her asking her to log on. He seems pretty panicked. If I see the messages before she does, I am deleting them. Is that bad? It's cutting off communications rights?I don't know what I am doing now.......it's getting worse.

Appleman,

Stop monitoring this. It is only hurting you. You know she is going to leave. Will she come back? I don't know. Will you want her back? I don't know. Will you have a chance to rebuild? I don't know.

But, I do know that you won't stop this: they have to decide to stop it. Your only action item is your sister, AND working on your behavior in the marriage, even if W leaves you need to learn from your mistakes and make changes in your approach to things.

So, stop playing censor.

God Bless,

JL

apple,

I'm sure that guy IS panicked. He realizes what's about to hit the fan. I imagine that things WILL get worse before they get better considering the circumstances.

You can do a Plan A while separated, I know several people who have done it successfully. Don't expect your wife to act rationally or show remorse right now....she's deep in the fog. The fogged have no conscience, but eventually she will see the destruction she caused. Just because this process will take months, doesn't mean you will feel as badly as you do right now. There will be a lot of ups and downs.

Do consider TMCM's advice about anti-depressants. Did your counselor prescribe some?

OK, so don't monitor? How can I just let this happen in the background? Are you sure? The conversations are just the panicked, trying to touch base on what's going on type.

K, someone help. I read some more again. She said that she is going to phone him tomorrow when she goes out for lunch with a friend. What do I do? Do I try to prevent this? My counselor told me that if she continued to talk to him, to lock her out of the computer, but I know how angry she is going to be. Do I lock her cell out too?

God, how can I let this go on behind my back. The OM said he needs to figure somethings out, and what he does depends greatly on her and that he requests her time. So now she is going to give it to him? All this time I know. What he wants her to commit to him, then he'll leave my sister and make these great plans with my wife. Man, it's all slipping away.

Arghhhhhhh

Appleman:

First, take a deep breath. Relaxed a bit? Good.

She is in the fog at the moment, and as WAT is fond of saying, she has been abducted by space aliens. Look at her behavior as going out to revisit the mothership: she and Elvis are probably on a first name basis.

As a former WS, I will tell you: she will use any means to justify what she was/is doing. By space-alien logic YOU are at fault in all this, and she is right. I know, I know ... it doesn't make any sense; but as has been said here in the past: do you want to be right or married?

So, secondly: start Plan A. Like 5 minutes ago, even. The sooner the better. And hold on, Appleman, because you have just entered the rollercoaster ride from He!!.

Remember, Plan A is about meeting your wife's emotional needs so that she has no reason to continue the affair for that reason; it is also providing her that safe harbor to return to ... she has to know that you are willing to take her back and work hard on salvaging the marriage and improving yourself. Finally, Plan A is about negotiating the end of the affair. That is Plan A.

Plan B is about protecting yourself: whatever love remains, you protect to have any future chance at saving the relationship. It is also there for you to prepare to move on IF she or you decide to move on to Plan D.

So, you have to set the example here ... to calm yourself, spend a few hours rereading the material on this site about Plan A.

There are no guaranteed results here. However, the MB principles have proven by far more effective than any other technique in saving and rebuilding marriages. If you have not already done so, order Surviving an Affair from this site (really, they should be paying us promotional fees, don't you think, as much as we plug the book ... just kidding, Dr. Harley) and read it immediately.

Heed the advice previously given: if you have not seen the doctor and gotten anti-depressants, please do so at once. They take some time to build up in your body, so the sooner you begin, the sooner you will begin to medically stabilize.

So take another deep breath ...
Godspeed,
STL

Appleman:

I am STL's wife.. just wanted to stop by and point you to a thread that discusses Plan A. There is a link to it in my signature block... Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters.

I put the post together by gathering some of the best info posted here by our most skilled MB'ers. It's a good, practical look at what all this means and how to implement it.

<small>[ July 26, 2003, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Zorweb ]</small>

i too just found out about the infidelity of my husband a few days ago... i talked with the girl and she was kind enough to answer all my questions. she says that their relationship didn't last for over a month because she felt that it was wrong for the relationship to continue... because she knew he was married. they have been very good friends ever since and swears to God that they have stopped being lovers for a long time.

i've been suspecting that something was going on with the two of them and often fought with my husband with it because he says that i don't trust him that well for me to think of that.

after i met with the lover, i talked with my husband regarding this but he was denying the fact that a relationship happened. he still stands firm that they were just very good friends and it was wrong for me to put any malice. he was shouting at me and cursing me in front of my parents and our children and i couldn't take it anymore. i was hurt and he was adding to the hurt i was feeling instead of consoling me so i threw him out of the house.

it may have been a year since their A was over but i just found out and it hurt like hell. throwing him out of our house felt very right at that time but now i feel so empty and at a loss because my life has revolved around him for 6 years and my children love him very much. he has not tried to talk to me and reconcile because he doesn't think he has done anything wrong to me.

i want him back but i want him to feel that i was hurt. i know a lot of people know how i'm feeling right now and there are people here who reconciled with their cheating spouses. but how long did it take for you to accept your spouse back? i hope someone can answer asap. thanks for your time.

But it says that Plan A is to separate the spouse from the lover. I think that is happening on a emotional level, as their contact just seems to discuss the situation....like "how are you doing in all this", "what are you going to do". They seem in desperate need to talk as they have something in common.

I think I have balanced the "I want to work on our relationship and I will be here to do that" and the "you've hurt the hell out of me and you made a bad choice" part. What is not working is the setting of limits. She sees me trying to govern her life and impose restrictions, which incindentally was some of our prolems during the marriage. Me being controlling. I am not being a doormat, but I say something the wrong way and she is going to blow. She is very.....ummm....unique in that regard.

And then some of the ways to break up the affair, I know would make her just freak out. Like telling her mother. That's where she plans on leaving to, her mother should now. But if my wife founf out that I told her, she would go beserk. How is that helpful?

Appleman:

Tell your MIL ... do it now. Your wife can go ballistic; I will get out my son's telescope and watch for the contrails. The purpose in doing so is to take every opportunity to expose the affair to the light of day.

Affairs live only in secrecy and darkness: it is very seldom that they survive exposure to light.

As far as her "anger": she does that "unique" thing because she has found it has worked in the past. If you do not let it affect you, do not engage with it, and are still there extending your hand, she will abandon that behavior ... because she will have learned that it no longer works. She used that behavior to control YOU (as you were using other behaviors to control her).

Plan A is also about you working to be a better spouse; do the EN assessment ... if she won't, fill one out the way you think she would (hopefully at some future time you would then see how wrong you were ... lol).

By keeping the secret, you are helping to perpetuate the affair ... which is definitely anti-Plan A. So go do Plan A ... which includes exposing the affair; but just because you expose it, does not mean you need to lovebust when she explodes.

Godspeed,
STL

ps. I was rereading some of what went before, and I must respectfully disagree with Just Learning. Install tracking software and continue to monitor. No one says you have to "read it now", but having a record of it could prove of value in the future. One good software tracking program is Starr from Iopus. It can be installed in stealth mode, and she will be none the wiser, and you will at least know if she is up to inappropriate behavior.

<small>[ July 26, 2003, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: SeenTheLight ]</small>

Appleman,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But it says that Plan A is to separate the spouse from the lover. I think that is happening on a emotional level, as their contact just seems to discuss the situation....like "how are you doing in all this", "what are you going to do". They seem in desperate need to talk as they have something in common.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope, this is no evidence of the affair winding down.. it is just the way affairs are. A large part of an affair is ‘you and me against the world’. Then they jump in bed together to prove that what they have to greater then the world around them. It’s Romeo and Juliet all over again. A large part of many affairs discussing how the affair is wrong, how this is the last time, how they need to talk just one more time (for the zillionth time) but oh gee they just cannot help their poor selves. This is proof of the affair continuing.

I assume that your wife knows about all the affairs this man has had. Does she realize that this means that she is really nothing special to him? Just one more?

One thing that I can see here is that your wife needs the people around her who love her to help her through this. She is being used. Your sister is being used. Heck this guy is preying on your entire family. That is why her mother, your mother and everyone else needs to know. He is a predator and the damage of an entire family needs to end NOW. You have the power to do this.

If you do anything short of using ‘big guns’ on this you are not protecting your wife. I don’t care how upset she is getting. The worse that can happen is that you loose her. You are already loosing her. If things continue as they are and you continue to not take a really strong stand with this she is going to continue what she is doing. And he is going to continue to use your wife and your sister. You may as well rent her an apartment to continue her affair with this guy… right now you are enabling her to continue this affair.

He is cheating on your sister once again. Your sister has to know this. Not in a day or two but TODAY. You know, with the way this guy is you have no idea now many women he is involved with.

The chances of him carrying around an STD are very high. The health of all of you is at risk because of this bum. Have you considered yet any of the health risks this OM is has caused you, your wife and your sister? Have you all been tested yet?

If you tell your sister, your entire family and your wife’s family.. sure she will get angry. But that does not matter. She will get over it. Your telling is not a love buster; it’s a very loving thing. This is not to embarrass her. It is not to hurt her. It is to protect her, your sister and both families from this predator.

For one thing, if you tell your sister, it could have a double bonus. He will be so busy with damage control with your sister that he may not have the time to talk to your wife.

If you do not do expose the affair to everyone involved today or as soon as you can reach the parties then you are part of the affair. You are condoning it and you have no room to complain about what you wife is doing.

You cannot control your wife’s behavior. But you can decide to not be a part of the damage she and this bum are causing. You have total control over whether or not you are a participant in the affair or if you are part of the solution.

If you were my brother, and you knew of my fiancé’s or my husband’s affair, and you waited even an hour to inform me I’d find it very hard to ever forgive you. I would not consider you as someone who loved and cared for me. Why are you waiting so long to protect your sister? Is it because you want to spare your wife? Not a good reason.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">God, how can I let this go on behind my back. The OM said he needs to figure somethings out, and what he does depends greatly on her and that he requests her time. So now she is going to give it to him? All this time I know. What he wants her to commit to him, then he'll leave my sister and make these great plans with my wife. Man, it's all slipping away.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">sorry this left before I finished,new here.

1.talk to the man
tell him to tell sister, time limit. then you tell.

2tell your wife it's over.
she needs to stop contact with man.

3 fyi cannot stop her it seems she has mind made
up and wants to be with him. It is not fog it is lust, if it wasn't him, she would have found someone else.

right now she is destroying alot of lives, her own included.

question? why do you want to keep her?
will you ever trust HER again?

I am sorry your going through this, I see things as she is wanting out of the marriage and away from you and you hanging onto one arm and he the other right now with a tug of war. She has already picked.

let go, lock her out of your life? she has locked you our first, but you didn't know that. She does not care. She has another man, that bites.
it is truth.

hope for the best for you, the ride only just began for you. I am going to watch how this plays out.

I am new here so I am just learning the ropes and the concepts. I am reading. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ July 26, 2003, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: YaYa ]</small>

K, this is my immediate concern......My wife is going to be phoning him in 3 hrs. Do I prevent this? I haven't been able to tell my sister just for the fact that she is working nights this weekend, and I don't want to do it over the phone. I want to tell her in person, with the emails if she needs proof.

I just feel like re-inforcing with my wife the need to solve this on her own and to not continue to make bad decisions. Right before I drop her off I want to tell her that it is likely that she is going to phone him with her alone time, and that she should do something constructive, to focus on what's important.

Either that, or right after I drop her off, phone my sister in a mad rush, most likely wake her up. If I can even do that, her fiance lives with her, so he'll probably pick up. And tell her over the phone real quick?? Doesn't make sense, but I am on a deadline. Suggestions for this immediate problem please?

AM what about asking your sister to meet you at a public place without her fiance? You can take the evidence with you and show it to her and be her emotional support when she receives the bomb.

Appleman:

Tell your sister now. You found a reason to delay it until after the weekend. After the weekend, there will be some other reason.

She has every right to know now. So get moving and go tell her. If you can't see her face-to-face, then use the telephone, but make sure she has access to some help ... such as family, her best friend, whatever.

But, like the Nike ads say: Just Do It.

Godspeed,
STL

Where is it your wife is going this weekend?

a sneaky meeting with him, while girlfriend is working?

so they live together? then this is going to be even tougher, as they are sorta like husband and wife without the official paper.

both have screwed up BIGTIME.
get them all to dinner in a restaurant, one with a booth that gives privacy.so you all can talk
or a hotel room with room service.
order dinner and get them to talk about it, to come clean, say now you both have something to share, don't you? that you have been hiding from
sister and I? who wants to talk first.
then see what and who blames who. Both there and both of you the truth comes out once and for all
and you will see how they will lie to protect themself from each other. even.

please do it with both of them at the same time.
it isn't going to make a bit of difference because the damage is done.

but it will PROVE to both you and sister what lying snakes they both are and prove to them they do not love each other, they will squirm to try to get out of the light.

maybe something will happen and all will live happily ever after. but maybe everyone will go separate ways which is probably best for everyone.

I think the whole think stinks to high heaven and God will judge in the end. this way you will
be there for your sister.

Good luck and lots of prayers sent your way,
no easy way for this one. Bud.
damage has been done, damage repair maybe. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Appleman:

I would respectfully disagree about some form of confrontational solution. In such a forum, there is too much possibility of confrontation and the protection and attention due your sister will get lost in the [shuffle].

If necessary, that can occur at a later day. Your sister deserves to have it broken to her in a manner that is as safe and supportive as you can make it. Have your wife and her fiance there will inflame things IMHO.

Godspeed,
STL

<small>[ July 26, 2003, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: SeenTheLight ]</small>

I agree, an ensemble is not appropriate.

apple,

One important thing to do is to project this thing into the future. It will help you decide what to do today and help you see that complete exposure of the affair is absolutely necessary. Let's suppose that you tell your sister, and hopefully, that she separates herself from this snake and calls off the wedding. In the meantime, your wife is already talking about leaving and moving to her moms. Suddenly, they will each have alot more in common than just the affair. They will both be battling broken relationships and now without the prying eyes of others....they can do whatever they wish. She will no doubt go ballistic if you inform her mother....but no mother is going to support this heinous affair. Your wife needs a dose of reality right now....and she needs an environment that will protect her against her own inability to protect herself. Stop worrying about her reaction to exposure. Everyone is calling this guy a predator, and he is. But I think the what you've described is a relationship that was intiated by your wife. The people who can help her see that error or the ones she will run to...and they are the ones who need to know.

If there is a crisis and you think your sister needs to know before the weekend is up....I suggest you call your parents or her best friend to help you, ask them to go stay with her while you tell her over the phone about the situation. If the snake answers first, advise him that it is in his best interest to vacate the premises NOW because his world is about to explode. Get this thing out there before more harm is done. Undercut your wife and OM's ability to go further by letting anyone she may run to know the truth. Don't give them time to cover their tracks, or for this snake to convince your sister that it was all your wife's doing and he is innocent.

Gosh, I just ache for you. So sorry. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />