Ok, explosion started. Told my sister. Sister freaked. Went to blow up at fiance. Fiance called my wife as a head's up. Wife called back, got earful from sister. Of course she is totally ballistic. I think I know what I have to do. Got some anti-depressants too. I am on an adrenaline rush, but somewhat in control. Have to go pick up my wife now.

Appleman:

You have started a chain reaction. But it eventually will be a healing one: for your sister and for you. Hopefully for your wife as well. Dorkus erectus doesn't count in my book, but who knows?

My prayers and thoughts are with you and your sister.

Godspeed,
STL

A-man: FYI, a book referenced in my signature line link is "The State of Affairs", by Todd Mulliken. It goes in to great detail on the effects of control issues in marriage, and how they lead to affairs, and how they affect your approach to recovery. I think it would offer you some additional helpful insight if your wife perceives you to be controlling. Mulliken worked with Harley for 8 years, and their approaches are pretty compatible.

<small>[ July 26, 2003, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Appleman,

I'm saying some prayers for you while you're gone.

I am changing my post now:

Your wife is wonderful, just wonderful. She just slipped and had sex with another man. It will all work out since she is such a "wonderful woman" and truly remorseful.

<small>[ July 27, 2003, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

My thoughts are with you.

This is going to be a very rough and trying time and I'm sorry to say it has only just begun....

Your sister's world just crashed and crumbled around her and what makes it even harder is that it was her SIL who was involved.

You are going to have to be strong, I think your going on A-D's is the right thing to do. You will be able to think more clearly, that pit that's in the bottom of your stomach right now will not seem so big, it will help you rationalize.

Your wife has crossed a boundary that is going to take a long time to overcome. Not only do you have to deal with what your wife has done to the M, you also have to deal with what it has done to your sister and the rest of your family. I think your wife is probably going to put her head in the sand and perhaps try and run away from what she has done so she doesn't have to deal with it.

I think this would be a normal reaction, I hope this all works out for all of you.

My thoughts and prayers are with you at this terrible time in your life.

You will get stronger. Eventually it won't feel as hopeless or as helpless as you feel now.

Baba2:

Are you having a bad post day? This is Marriage Builders, not Divorce Encouragers. This situation is just now coming to light, so I am at a loss why you offer the counsel you do. I would expect as much from a new poster, but not one who has been here as long as you have.

This is the time for sane heads and for beginning the rebuilding process by using an effective Plan A. If you cannot offer constructive MB advice, why are you posting? Why do I seem to detect bitterness and anger on your part? Your post is highly insensitive at best or incredibly vulgar and crass at worst.

Appleman:

One step at a time. The immediate future will be one large emotional rollercoaster. Yet, if done properly, using the techniques shown in Harley's books and on this site; by availing yourself of constructive advice and support on this forum, you can salvage your marriage.

The worst case scenario is that you implement and use MB precepts and you don't save your marriage. In which case, you will still have become a better person for it.

I am keeping you, your sister and wife in my thoughts,
Godspeed,
STL

<small>[ July 27, 2003, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: SeenTheLight ]</small>

Update:

Wife was mad at me for telling my sister without waiting for our daughter to be home. I think that is half of how she feels, I think the other half is just that I surprised them with it. I think my wife wanted advance notice so that she could give advance notice to the OM.

Wife's fog has lifted a few times since the exposure. For the first time in 2 days she has brought up our daughter, before she would only ackowledge it when I brought her up. But she actually cried about the impact this might have on her. She has also cried thinking about how my sister might be doing, and told me to help her. And, since we left the city to go pick up our daughter, she is going to spend the night with her mother, she felt the need to tell her mother about that affair. Again, the first time she has said out loud the word "affair". She then cried because for the first time in her life, her mother showed disappointment in her for doing this.

On the other hand, my sister confronted her fiance. He denied it all and said that my wife has made up everything. He said that on one day, my wife kissed him and he kissed her back, but that's it. The next day they didn't talk or anything. He had reasons for quite a lot of their behavior. He said my wife became over infatuated with him(I agree with that) and that he pushed her away, but was afraid if he pushed to hard, she might go public with the relationship and blow things out of proportion. My sister is in denial, and tends to believe her fiance. So right now, 95% of me thinks something actually happened. The other 5% is a little confused at some of the details. My wife is still lying about some events, or twisting things a little to protect herself, and it's confusing the issue.

Oh, forgot to ask for a suggestion on the above. My wife is most likely going to ask how my sister is. Do I tell her that she is in denial because the OM is completely denying anything happened? Do I tell her that he has said that she was completely infatuated with him, while he was busy pushing her away?

Will this harsh reality help her get over what has happened, now that the OM has completely abandoned their affair to convince my sister that it didn't happen?

Wow, I just read your whole thread. Sounds to me as if your wife is infatuated with this man. Just by what you said about the e-mails they were writing back and forth it seems that he was trying to tell her to cool it but she wasn't listening. Believe me I know how this obsession thing goes my ex went way over the deep end. I really think you need to discuss this further with your soon to be brother in-law and try to feel him out. He maybe telling the truth.

Jill

I think you should tell her what the OM said. This is going to blow it wide open. He could be lying or he could be telling the truth.

From your ealier posts:

He wrote to her saying he was "unsure and wanted to know more." She wrote back saying to "give me a try, she is game."

I am not trying to defend him, but maybe he he was trying to stop it.

"husband told me today that he does not know me, he never has, because he never bothered to see me. You see me, I see you. I know you feel it......I have faith. Total faith. I have trust in you, and the person that I SEE. I don't want to let you go."

What has he replied to this? Have you seen his replies to her regarding the above?

As for your sister, it's normal that she would be in denial. It's also normal that he the OM is going to say that your W is lying and it was all her. Your sister may end up believing him because she doesn't want to be believe that worse has happened.

Can I ask you why your wife wanted your daughter to be there before you told your sister? This does not make sense to me. If your daughter is young, why would your wife want her to be around all this commotion? I'm a little confused.

Another thing, I don't know what the statistics are but the majority of A's that are exposed, the OP does not leave the marriage. Often, they realize what they have and go back. As you can see from most posts here most of the BS's are still with their spouse. That is the reality.

I hope you will be able to rebuild your marriage and have a better and stronger one. I hope everything works out in the end for your sister.

Have you thought about Marriage Counselling for you and your wife? Individual and together.

There is a reason this happened, if it wasn't your sister's fiance, it very well could have been with someone else.

My thoughts are with you

Appleman:

Of course the dorkus erectus is going to lie about it; not only lie, but if he can, he will shift all blame to your wife.

Now that it is all in the light of day, you can all begin working on the process of healing the marriage.

Healing the relationship between your wife and sister may be much harder. But look at the bright side: your sister was spared having to marry the idiot. Not much of a bright side, I grant, but anything positive, eh?

Godspeed to you all,
STL

ps: Baba2: So you edited your post; its tone is no better than before and is counter-productive to Appleman's situation. I think you are a very troubled person, filled with anger and bitterness. Rather than lash out at others in such a snide and crude way, why not confront your problems via these forums? You will find loads of help.

Jillybean: It goes both ways, based on the emails. The sister's fiance is just as culpable in all this. Appleman's sister just suffered a shock, at such times denial is not an unusual side-effect. Stick with it and her, Appleman. The WS (his wife) and the OM (dorkus erectus) will do everything that they can to mitigate, obfuscate and deflect. For that is the way of the two caught ... err ... with their pants down, so-to-speak.

Stay the course, Appleman. Even if your wife were stalking the OM, that does not mean he had to pick cherries off the tree did he? His argument is much akin to criminals who scream "entrapment" when caught.

pps: I have edited some portions of this post. Bad, bad STL ... never post before morning coffee. Never, never. (Scolds self at some length.)

Godspeed,
STL

<small>[ July 27, 2003, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: SeenTheLight ]</small>

Heartbroken:
His response to my wife saying "I can not let you go" was I do not want to jump into things, I have done that all my life.......I like you, but I need to know more and I do have a deadline.......this is not the best time."

The reason why my wife wanted her with us, is because my daughter was with my parents, and my sister would be grieving, spending time with my parents, and my daughter didn't need to be around that.

SeenThe Light I have really appreciated your feedback throughout this, so what do I do? Do I tell my wife that this guy is just denying everything? I see two possible outcomes. It will help her realize how unimportant and unattractive this guy really is. Or, she may then to all of a sudden follow the same path and start denying it as well, "together again so to speak."

I've already wrote about how infatuated my wife was/is and how she was trying to convince him. Here are some of the things he said, although he says they were just really close friends:

"I don't wanna forget, but I don't know what happens next. I can't get you out of my mind, I think you are an amazing person...I just don't know where it goes from here"

"I know what has happened, but I don't know what it means. But, I can't let you go either."

"I like being with you, but in the end it comes down to love. Can I love my sister all my life? Maybe, time will tell. With you it just began."

So, with him talking like that, does it just seem that an affair was dreamed up by my wife only, and that he didn't reciprocrate anything? What guy about to get married in a month would talk to a female friend like that if there wasn't some sort of history being referred to.

Jeeze, even after all this, he emailed her again, and she responded. He basically admitted that he lied to my sister and told her half-truths.

She again said how mad at me she was for telling my sister with my daughter in town. So, once again they are there supporting each other in this tough time.........

Appleman,

I would print out all the correspondence between them before she deletes it all!!! And keep it for a little while. This is probably going to get worse before it gets better.

If your sister needs proof or is still in denial show her what you have in a kind and gentle way, her world like yours is crumbling.

How is your wife reacting today? Most important is how are you? You will have to take care of yourself in all this mess, your daughter needs you. Take it one minute at a time. Slow, baby steps will help.

Have you heard from your sister? How is she?

My thoughts are with you

Ok, Zorweb, I am gone.

<small>[ July 27, 2003, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

Ok Zorweb, I am gone.

<small>[ July 27, 2003, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

Heartbroken,

I am up and down as usual. Don't know how my wife is, haven't seen her. Talked to her briefly, but it was right after I found out she emailed him again. My sister is dealing, him and her are going to go to counselling on Monday.

My question still needs an answer. Do I tell my wife what my sister and him are doing? That he has denied it, that he wants to work things out with my sister, that they are going to counselling and want to stay together? Will this show her some reality of it?

ummm...help?

Baba,

See the thread STL started just for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Appleman, I appologize for any hurt baba's posting has caused you in a time when you have more than to deal with than anyone should have.

<small>[ July 27, 2003, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Zorweb ]</small>

Hi Appleman,

Yes, I would tell your wife what he has said. I believe I did say that in my post this morning.

I think it's good that your sister and her fiance are going to go to counselling. I think that no matter what there is still hope for people to change and work things out.

There's hope for you and your wife too. Everything has got to come out in the open and there should be no secrets.

Not telling your wife because you think it will hurt her is not the wise thing to do. You need to be open and honest starting now if you want to save this marriage.