Very confused right now!

Things have not been better between us for quite some time than they are now, yet I still see evidence that she is lying and contacting him and another man that I am not sure what the R is about?
I want to confront her about the cell phone bill where all of the evidence is, but I don't want to spoil the good feelings that have resurfaced <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

We have been getting friendlier by the day and she finally admits that we have a chance!
She told me about a conversation that she had with a friend from work. He told her that he had 9 A's in 3 years! But, went on to say that he and his wife reconciled and have built a stronger, happier marriage than they ever thought possible. He said they are like newlyweds. I think that her hearing this from someone who has been through it and made it, helped her out tons. She was crying and said that she felt enlightened, and realizes that she has made many mistakes. We had a very, very productive talk, and she admitted that she feels like we are friends again. (This is a good step in the right direction, as she admitted to being on the verge of filing papers)
I have not pushed and continue to be happy with baby steps.
Here is my dilemna: The cell phone bill only goes to the 20th, and all of the "fog lifting" started on the evening of the 20th. So, I do not know whether she has had contact since then, although she did admit to running into him at the grocery on the 20th.
I feel like she is really making an effort, but unless and until she can really go without contact, I feel I may be wasting effort.

Then there is the issue of this other guy. It is a guy that works where she does but not even in the same dept. There are numerous calls to his pager, usually followed by a 1-5 minute call back to her. (unfortunately, incoming calls do not show originating phone numbers). I know that she has been "hanging out with him" and she of course denies anything is going on. But, I am not sure.
She took my kids to an amusement park nearby on the 19th, and he rode with her. He did not take any of his 3 kids though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> She says that he didn't want to take his motorcycle so he just rode with her. (doesn't he have a car?) I asked why he would go there without kids and she said he just wanted to hang out with everybody (A few of her other friends from work had gone too).
My kids were there and my OS told me he just hung out with them all day!?

The last thing that really bothers me is that there are a couple of calls to a local real estate agent??? I really don't know what to think. Should I give it more time and see what happens? Should I confront her now and try to get honest answers, even though I think it would jeopardize what little we have rebuilt? I just don't know.

I just want her back!

r0uter

<small>[ July 28, 2003, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: r0uter ]</small>

Well, the policy of radical honesty would require her to honestly answer your concerns. But how fully, at this point, are the MB principles enmeshed in your lives?

But even without radical honesty; you cannot let it slide; for it fosters the impression that she can get away (with whatever she is getting away with).

Discuss what contact with the OM does to you emotionally, and why no contact is so important. Again, no lovebusters ... but do not create an environment where destructive privacy can flourish.

Godspeed,
STL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But how fully, at this point, are the MB principles enmeshed in your lives? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have fully embraced the MB principles and agree wholeheartedy with the PORH. However, as yet I cannot get her here to read anything. She knows that I have been reading extensively, and I am sure that she can see the changes in me. I just finished reading TTSMM's post about encouraging the spouse to visit, and I am anxiously awaiting a reply that I can use to my advantage.

I can certainly try to discuss it with LB's, but (and I am not making excuses) she immediately gets defensive and starts doing her own LB's. Maybe with the fog a little clearer...

Boy, I still have a lot of work to do!!

r0uter

r0uter:

It is good that you have embraced the MB principles; but until she has, it is somewhat dicy. She will not understand such concepts as radical honesty, emotional needs and avoiding lovebusters.

So you question her indirectly; "This is how I feel (etc.)" ... by "pointing" the finger at yourself, she will not feel as threatened; and perhaps it will provide the opening for a dialog.

Let her know what contact with OM, however slight, does to YOU. Tell her how much you have learned about marriage and relationships, and that you want to share it with her. If the opening is there, then proceed with MB precepts. If not, gracefully back away, and leave it for another day.

Though she appears to be "friendlier" do not be blinded by the appearance. Remember, you have been fooled by appearance before, right? Encourage her to work with you to set the marriage right (in a non-accusatory way). More akin to "I need your help to make our marriage better (etc.)."

Godspeed,
STL

I have discussed with her the things that I have read here. I have explained to her what the POJA and PORH are, and she was seemingly receptive.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Though she appears to be "friendlier" do not be blinded by the appearance. Remember, you have been fooled by appearance before, right? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know, that is probably what bothers me the most. I can't seem to get the thought out of my head that she is being friendly in order to get me to relax and take the pressure off, and then WHAM she will hit me again. That's why the call to the real estate agent bothers me.
She has talked about me getting a job somewhere south where we could move and be in warmer weather and stuff. Is this so that when I take the job and go down to find a place she can say, OK now that you are there, stay there and I will stay here? I just don't know.

r0uter

if you have any doubts then you should brig them to the table for immediate clarification. anything else put's you in "fools paradise."

my friend it's bad enough when she lies to you...why would you lie to yourself? having her at any cost is not having her at all...it then becomes about her having you and anybody else she may choose to as well.

sorry but that's the way it appears to me.
coach

R:

Radical honesty. Get your concerns out there in as non-LBing way as possible. If you allow wiggle room, they will wiggle.

Known fears can be dealt with, it is the fears of our own creation that eat us up. So get the fear out into the open where it can be addressed and dealt with.

Godspeed,
STL

rOuter I hate to say this but she is cake walking. She realizes that none of the OM are marriage material (like you) but she doesn't want to let go of them. If she were truly serious about rebuilding the marriage, one of the things she would have done is to beg you to come back home, has she? What she is doing is she is trying to keep you hoping that there is a chance for the marriage to be rebuilt that way you won't give up and move on. I would seriously consider going to Plan B.

TMCM,

She did not beg me to come home but, she she no longer wants me to leave! When I came back after visiting my mother, she told me it was ok to stay home and now says that she feels comforted when I am in bed with her. She says that she looks forward to coming home and seeing me again and that before the thought of coming home made her stressed out.

I am not totally disagreeing, but as I said before, there is not sufficient evidence right now that she has talked to anybody since last weekend. As far as I know, she has not had contact with anyone but me since starting to feel good again. I think I will give it a few more days and see if I can find any evidence to support contact.

I will however discuss my feelings with her.

r0uter

Thanks for the update rOuter so disregard what I said.

I agree with you in that you should wait if there is concrete proof of her contact with the OM or this other, new potential OM.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She says that she looks forward to coming home and seeing me again and that before the thought of coming home made her stressed out.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Outstanding! If later you have to go to Plan B, you can rest assured that you did a good Plan A.

Thank you TMCM for confirming that for me!!

r0uter

I think the OM w/the kids that he didn't take to the park -- didn't take them because he didn't want his W to know he was going w/your W. Does that make sense?

My H always seemed happier and chummier when he thought he was getting away w/it.... Was always happy when he was getting to eat his cake!

SD,

Would make sense except that he is divorced and does not have custody, (I believe).

I confronted her about this on Sat night. She was very upset, threatened to leave. I told that if that was how she felt she should go, got out of bed and went downstairs. She followed me and told me that if I wanted to talk to come back to bed! I talked, very calmly, and told her that she should expect and allow me to be suspicious. She responds by saying that she will not live like that, she will not live by my rules. (Which means that I must live by hers? I think not! POJA or nothing!) I told her that at this point it would be a shame to throw away all of the progress that we made last week! I asked her if she enjoyed last week and if during that time she felt like we could save the marriage, she said yes she did want to. I simply told her that if we were to save the marriage, we would have to work together, not apart!
Yesterday, when she woke up she was still a little off, but as the day progressed she got better and better. She was at work all day and called me several times to see how things were going, and to say hi! Progress! I can see that she does want to try. She actually came straight home from work instead of taking a friend offer to go have a beer and see a movie! (Two weeks ago, she would have opted for the beer in order to avoid me <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> )

We are making progress and I am feeling good, but still a bit apprehensive, about the way things are going. I am still trying to figure out how to get her here. She doesn't spend any time online at all. I will continue to chip away at her, and leave little hints all over. She has really enjoyed the little notes that I leave in her truck while she is at work! (It's the little things!! Wish I had realized it this well long ago!)

r0uter

r0uter,

I'm glad to hear you and your W are making progress. I totally understand your feelings of apprehension.

I thought my W and I were progressing, but we've had some major setbacks. I just realized how much in love with OM she is. I have no idea how long it will take her to get over him (if ever).

It's been 6 weeks since d-day for us. How long has it been for you?

H4U,

D-Day was Mar 8th! It has taken a long time to get this far. We have been doing fairly well and things continue to improve! I just discussed a concern I had with the second OM and she was very open and honest about it without LB'ing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
She admitted that he had asked her out on a date and that they had done some things together that might be considered questionable. But when we finished talking about it we were both smiling, I looked her in the eye, thanked her for being honest about it, and said, "Doesn't it feel good to be able to be honest?!" and she smiled her beautiful smile and said, "Yes, it does." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
We hugged for a very long time and she kissed me and I was in heaven! I will need to start a new post over on Recovery soon!!!!!!

Good luck to you... Don't give up! I don't kow if this will help you but.. I found that the more I did to try to be the man she needs me to be, the more I saw the things that made me fall in love with her in the first place. Even when she wasn't at all onboard with repairing the marriage, I was able to find thoughts of her that made me happy! Not even sure if that makes any sense!? Anyway, good luck, and hang in there. If you follow the MB principles I think you have a good chance!

r0uter

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"she was very open and honest about it without LB'ing! She admitted that he had asked her out on a date and that they had done some things together that might be considered questionable. But when we finished talking about it we were both smiling, I looked her in the eye, thanked her for being honest about it, and said, "Doesn't it feel good to be able to be honest?!" and she smiled her beautiful smile and said, "Yes, it does."
We hugged for a very long time and she kissed me and I was in heaven! I will need to start a new post over on Recovery soon!!!!!!"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good job rOuter! Keep on maintaining the emotionally safe environment for her because it is essential for true intimacy to continually develop between the two of you. But don't let this make you beleive that you have to become a doormat to your W because that is NOT what the MB principles are about.

TMCM,

I have begun very gingerly setting boundaries. She has thus far been receptive to that! Things are going well, but I am trying to be realistic in my expectations.

When I hugged her and gave her a kiss (The best, most passionate kiss in over ten weeks!!!) she stopped, giggled and said, "That's gonna get you into trouble!" I smiled and said, "I hope so!!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Then my kids walked in! Sometimes timing is everything!

Thanks again,

r0uter