I am 48, my wife 39. We have been married 6 years. We have 7 children, 3 mine, 3 hers, one ours. 5 still at home. My two oldest have moved out on their own.

I found out the my wife was having an affair with her co-worker. I found love letters and erotic letters from him to her. I confronted them both seperately, and they both said the affair was over 2 years ago when the baby was 10 months old. They now are only very good and close friends. He is a family friend who we helped financially and emotionally through an ugly devorce (his wife knew of the affair, I didn't). Our children are close to each other, and we sit for each other all the time. He is here as much as he is at his home. I had questions about them but my wife denied them and I believed her even though the "facts" showed different. Yes, I was in denial.

After I found out, our world was upside down. We are working but she won't stop seeing him, he is a co-worker. She says the affiar is long over and that they are "just" friends and that he is her "only" friend (which is true - he was my only friend also). Since I found out I have a hard time seeing him, having him over, etc. I have tried to be good, but it's just too hard. I found some CD's he made for her recently, all love songs about wanting her, and I found out he bought her a seperate cell phone. She had "good" reasons for all these things. But I had to find them, she never told me.

She goes to the market on weekends, and says that's her alone time. She doesn't like taking the kids or me along, though we would go. She is usually gone about an hour to 90 minutes. Last weekend I had to take my step-son to practice and my step-son saw "this guy" pulling into the market after mom. I dropped off my son and went to the market. Granted they were having a special car show in the lot so a lot of people were there. I found his and her car (not close). I called my wife's cell, got no answer and left a message saying I was in the parking lot at the show. I walked the show, didn't see "him" and went into the market. There they were, he pushing the cart for her. They laughing and talking. I walked up and said, "Hi guys"... he ran around the corner with the cart. My wife looked surprised and said, oh hi, you can join us if you want. I didn't and left. Came back and he was gone. She said he just happened to see her going into the market and joined her.

Since then we talked more and I told her about the chances of us staying together if he was around were slim and none according to the "experterts." She will not go see anyone with me, or talk much about things. I have read what I can and want us to work. I do love her, but I find it so hard with "him" still in the picture. Yesterday she was very withdrawn. He called a few times to talk with her, and they did talk when I was out. This morning, still withdrawn she said she was going to tell them they couldn't see each other, (with a tone) because of me. Now, will they still see each other, I just won't know about it. I know he still loves her, and will try to see her.

I trust my wife that the affair is over. I want to believe that also. I know she likes his attention, but he is not me, and family. I also think she doesn't want the fact of the affair to get out if we broke up. I want her to love and want me, but because she really does, not because she is afraid of the consequeneces if she leaves.

What should I do? Any ideas?

You are wrong when you say the affair is over. The PHYSICAL affair may be over, but her emotional dependence on him is not over. You will never recover your marriage as long as her heart is divided. It is horribly insensitive to you for her to insist that he be around you. She is telling you that her friendship with him is more important to her than you are. Harley says NO CONTACT with a former lover is a non-negotiable condition of marital recovery after an affair.

That said, there is a process to go through to try to respectfully convince her to end her relationship with him. It is called Plan A and Plan B. Please click on the link in my signature line to find out more.

Rob:

I agree with John. The affair is not over; an EA (emotional affair) can be just as devastating and destructive to the marriage as a PA (physical affair).

I cannot emphasize enough what John said: The healing process cannot begin until there is NO CONTACT. It is important to get your wife to understand that this is a non-negotiable part of the process.

Then I would suggest you get and read Surviving an Affair and His Needs, Her Needs, both by Harley (available by clicking the Bookstore tab at the top of the page).

If you can, show her this Web site (not the forums at first, but the material here). Go over it together.

If she does not wish to, then (after reading SSA) begin to implement a Plan A ... in which you work on becoming a better you, and she separates herself from the affair. (There is a Plan B, but we will get to that if necessary.)

As far as your "friend"; he betrayed you in a manner befitting Judas or Brutus. He is no friend. Your wife also betrayed you, not only because of the affair in the first place, but because of the deceptions in continuing it (even if it may only be an EA). It would be within your right to insist that this "friend" not come to your house again, and to have no contact with you and your wife.

You must remember, that it is natural for the WS (wayward spouse) to deny and hide their duplicity. (By the way, I should know, being a former WS.) WSs are also good at revisionistic history ... something for you to keep in mind.

If she is given to using the PC a lot, you may want to install monitoring software such as Starr by Iopus, it will help ward off revisionistic history, provide you with a level of protection against duplicity, and serve as a "watchdog" if you tell your wife it is installed (which I recommend, but which is not always advisable). It can be installed in a stealth mode so the user is unaware of it. It works and cannot be detected or deleted (unless you wipe the harddrive and reinstall the operating system ... which itself would be a huge red flag).

Godspeed to you both,
STL

The affair is not over. They are simply finding ways to hide it better.

Until this guy is gone for good your marriage will never have any chance to recover. Time to Plan A.

I hate to say this but "was the affair going on before her pregnancy?" sounds like it maybe was. Maybe you should have a DNA test done quietly.

Thanks for the feedback so far. Just to answer some questions. My wife does not like or use the computer. She gets her emails sent to me and I print them out for her. I have asked if she wants her own but she says no.

As far as the child is concerned, I have thought of that. They met (according to what I know) after her return from leave with the baby. Baby was born in July, then had their affair the following May/June.

I have read the A/B program and understand it. I talked last weekend about the leaving him behind. She said today she would tell him. I was home at lunch and she came home without him. But they work together. I don't see that changing.

Can she change jobs?

Sue,

We worked as a couple for her to get this position. She teaches and has time to spend with our kids. Free day care. We invested in loss of income for quality time for kids with mom. I never thought this job would cause issues and problems.

He is having to take on another job due to his legal issues. He now only works with her 2-days a week, and in time that may change to 0-days.

Rob:

In the case of co-workers, it is best if one or the other leave.

In this case, I would suggest your wife look for employment elsewhere.

Godspeed,
STL

Well, I hope he quits working there.

Rob,

Have you done any reading here? If not I would recommend that you get a book entitled Surviving an Affair by Harley.

I am worried about a couple of things. It seems if I have read this right that your W broke up OM's marriage. His W divorced him because of his affair with your W. Am I right?

Next, you should probabl do the DNA test, because there seems to be ALOT of lying still going on right now.

The advice you have received is great, but I really think you and W need to get counseling, because this is still a strong EA, and OM has nothing to lose. He has already lost his marriage due to this affair.

It is very clear that No Contact, NC, is imperative in this situation since both of them are still very much attached and it is clear from your W's unwillingness to seek help. She doesn't want help, because she doesn't want to end the affair.

My feeling is that you do plan A if you haven't already done it, but plan on moveing to plan B within a month or so if she will not break it off with OM. Her comments saying she will are weak at best, and the reality is that she has kept this affair alive and in your face the whole time.

That doesn't show alot of respect for you, or the marriage. If her job is more important than her marriage then I think you know where you stand.

Do the testing of your shared child, just for peace of mind. But, also see if you can get her to go NC. "trust but verify" as Reagan used to say. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

PS: You are supposed to be your W's "only friend" or "best friend" not some other guy. Same goes for you. So this talk of losing her "friend" is more of the fog so often discussed on this site.

<small>[ July 28, 2003, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

I see I have more explaining to do. I want to state up front that I know I have to work to make this happen. If I was perfect the affair she had wouldn't have happened.

I am not very concerned about the child not being mine. She didn't know him when she became preg.

She will not go to see a doctor with me to discuss this.

The affair took place while "he" was still married. I didn't know him then, just "of" him. He was unhappy, and I believe the affair was the "push" that gave him the strength to move onward. His wife didn't "know" but strongly suspected, and it's still that way. I have not told her either, I have only met her once in passing.

I have read a lot about affairs, here and other sites. They are all about the same. They say it must end. I am not sure if that will happen, I do KNOW that she has made moves that way. Making moves is not the same as ending, I know, but progress is progress. I only really pushed not having him around any more this weekend, and she has already started.

I am hurting, but I do love her, and I know she loves me. I am needing more info on the A / B thing.

In "A" I think I read in one article here that "everyone" has to be told? Friends, family? I am not sure that's true so I am seeking confirmation. If so, I am not sure I can do that, nor want to if we are together.

Rob,

In Plan A Harley beleives that the A needs to see the light of day. What does that mean? Well, it seems it is subject to interpretation. The paramount goal is rebuild the marriage, so sometimes telling the in-laws, out-laws, and your family may not be productive. It does often mean telling the spouse you know, telling OP's spouse of the affair, and NOT lying for your spouse about the affair.

Should you take an ad out in the local paper proclaiming her affair? I don't think so.

Should you tell your clergyman, with whom you are talking (if you are)? YES. Does Mom and Dad or FIL and MIL need to know? Perhaps.

But, no more lying about it, and no lying for her.

Some of this depends on the situation. But, the key guidline in my mind is not lying about it to anyone. If your or a member of your family asks point blank, then don't lie.

Have I confused you? Hope not, but I probably did.

I do strongly urge you to read about "radical honesty" and the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA, and how it is used. These two tools are very important to rebuilding your marriage. And the should be applied in plan A with the idea of removing Love Busters from you interactions with your W. No LB's and 'radical honesty' quite a challenge, but the idea is convey your ideas, your thoughts, and your boundaries in a way that she understands, but that don't bring up her defenses. Cannot always be done, but if it cannot then really really think about what you are going to say.

Just removing the LB's and disrespectful judgements, DJ's, from your interactions with her will really help her.

You want to become her best friend, and that means listening to some things that will really hurt and not make any judgements.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

rob, I just read your post and best to you. Your last line is the real demon I fight. How can we belive they really love us, yet they can treat us like they did? I have straight asked my H if he wants to leave but can't. He says he don't want to leave. When will I know for sure? I also feel he is staying until he can get it all together and leave. If you have anything that worked I would apperciate hearing it.

Pinky:

Plan A is about making it so he doesn't leave, because you give him all the right reasons (through fulfilling his needs) to stay.

Rob and Pinky, one major thing to understand about the wayward spouse (WS) is that they are in a FOG ... they don't know anything except that they play cards with Elvis on the mothership on occation. A popular poster here, WAT, maintains (and I agree) that WSs are hijacked by space aliens.

You will a lot of erratic behavior that will often leave you scratching your head. Getting the WS out of the fog is one of the purposes of Plan A. You can read about Plan A elsewhere on this Web site.

Godspeed,
STL

Pinky,

I think the best advise I have tried and seemed to make progress is to talk. I mean really communicate. State how you feel, and why. Don't attack, because then things become defensive, but share and be honest.

I talked about my feelings and why. I told her what I felt about her and us. I told her what I wanted and why. I told her why I really loved her. (That really takes some thought to get down deep to to real reasons.) You will find you love someone because of the way they make you feel about you. Selfish aren't we?

I then stated issues I thought I had done that I needed to work on and correct. Lastly, I told her about my concerns and fears. I layed everything out on the table for her. She knew exactly what I felt, why, and the consequences.

I also shared what I could and could not live with. I noticed that that list changes over time which can cause her confusion. She knows I love her, I want this marriage to work, that I understand that it will take time to rebuild, but I am up for the challenge.

From there she really opened up to me. WOW! It was a great talk. Lot's to work on, but yet together we are starting the process. Tears, that night, but well worth the emotional pain. We didn't yell, accuse, just talked about our needs and our feelings. From that point we started to build. We now have, what I call "check" conversations to assure we are on the right path.

Communicate, communicate, communicate.

What did I learn? That our relationship needs help, more than I thought. That she does love me, but not for the reasons or the way I expected or assumed. This is the point where you decide if that's good enough for you or not. For me, it's a place to start, not a place to finish. I want more, but I know I must work very hard to get to the place I want us to reach.

This is also a personal belief but I do believe that if you really want something, and are willing to work hard, take no credit, and focus you will succeed. The reward is in the end, and the journey to get there. Not in the winning.

Good luck with your relationship.

rob,
here's my take on your sitch. as others here have already advised the affair is not over. not by a long shot so don't let either of them try to sell you that line of cr@p! and another thing, if he was such a good guy then he would agree to disappear into the sunset on his own and would be begging you his good ex-friend (i hope)to forgive him...so here's some things to think about.

1. and you say that you SO love your wife...wondeful but what does that mean? you love her so much you don't care what she does and who she does it with? you love her so much that you'll accept any thing from her just to keep her?

2. there is a lesson here for us all...especially those who feel that telling the other betrayed party in an affair (the H or W of the other person) is not the correct thing to do. how much better off would rob have been if he could have confronted this issue at it's inception.

3. maybe your wife and the OM are NOT together because they think that they are acting noble! LOL by her staying with you and by him not insisiting that she leave!

interesting ha? that's maybe why she won't give him up totally...she thinks this guy is her "soul mate" (yuk) and that she's already sacrificed enough by giving up her sex life with him!

4. you have trouble seeing or being with the OM?! i would think so! rob, this guy is a snake! a snake and a low life! under the guise of friendship he accepted your hospitality and used your faith in him to seduce your wife! this is not a nice man! you have to find a way to seperate your family from him...totally!

you can't go on making believe that everything is OK...letting your kids play with his kids etc. letting your W think you approve of her seeing him and speaking with anytime she chooses.

5. Plan A your W for sure but that does not mean you have to accept her disrespectful behavior. in fact you should be finding ways to tell her how disappointed you are in her. more over, if she truly feels that he is her only friend that what are you?

sorry to sound negative but this is a sitch crying out for a pro-active move on your part to change the staus quo! your W needs to be confronted by another kind of you...a less accepting and diplomatic version. they shop at the super market together?! the very idea!

good luck,
coach

Hell of a week. Okay need some feedback. "He" told my wife sometime that he couldn't live with me "freaking" out all the time and he couldn't have the friendship with her because of me. (I didn't know this happened earlier this week). I told her today that he needed to be out, and talked about the things I needed to do to help things out. I also told her about the literature I had for her to read. WOoooooh! She got very upset. It's all about what I want. It's about my needs. I said it wasn't about either of our needs but the focus had to be on building the relationship. She is really upset. He said he can't live with my attitude and I said I can't live with his. She feels lost in the middle. She is attacking making me feel guilty and I am trying to stand my ground but this really sucks. I told her I would do all I could to help her. I also told her that her feelings of hurt, loss, deprecison were okay and we would get through it together. She got very mad, still is. I am doing dumb things, like saying "I love you" and she says yeah, I love you. But the tone etc is so bitter. When I push on it I get, "it's what you want to hear." I told her I want the truth not what she thinks I want to hear. I told her if she chooses to be with "him" as a friend I am gone. But I will respect her decision.

I thought things were going GREAT this week. Then today wham! Maybe her feelings just came to a head, when I pushed the point I didn't want him around even for a moment.

That won't happend right away, but it is getting less and less. I am looking for work outside the area, which she will support, but doesn't like.

Thoughts? I know she is hurting, upset, and feels that she has no control right now of anything. How can I help her? Give her space? Be there? Hoping for some good ideas????????

rob,
the best way to help her now is for you to do what's right for your family and for yourself.

you can now see how much damage has been done to the marriage; you tell her you can't live with this OM in your lives and she's having trouble making a decision as to what she wants and the right and wrongs of the situation?!

if it were me i would tone it down a bit with the ultimatums. no sense letting a foggy headed space cadet with a broken moral compass make these decisions for you. and please understand my description is not of your W but of the place she is right now. i do not want to sound disrespectful of her. but really, she is just not in a place right now that allows her to make important life changing decisions...so i wouldn't put her on the spot.

instead, i would disconnect from the situation. tell her how you feel, and explain that you just can't be around this person ever again and that you expect her to understand and respect your feelings. don't yell at her or scream at her. just keep reiterating you point of view in a calm logical way.

good luck.
coach