Willard Harley's advice is "put it on the evening news."

Yes some will take the position these thoughtless ones are.... but the idea is to expose the affair to scrutiny and to cause conflict in the fantasy.

It certainly has done that hasn't it? H and OW are no longer enjoying a secret life of fun and laughter are they? Now they have to contend with this and it is NOT fun. That will do much to withdraw love units.... I think especially for her.

Having done that, you need to back away and not engage in an argument about it .... not with the WS... not with anyone. That cheapens you and lowers you to their level. Expose and silence except to those who are supportive.

Ending the affair is the goal of Plan A.

Stick with the plan Lu. You're doing the right thing.

C

I agree with Zorweb and Cerri, the people who put you down for telling them about your H's A are not your friends. Try not to take their reactions to heart. You know the reality of your situation.

There are people that will think that there is something flawed in you and that you caused/deserved your husband's A. That they must truly be soulmates and it shouldn't be any of your business to spoil their fun. These people that are being negative to you are just products of our morally screwed up world.

It is best in the long run to try to be the best LULU you can be. To try to hold your chin up. To not act like a pathetic looser. To not succumb to your husband's blame and justifications for his A. You will be more attractive to him if you can respond to him in a loving but firm and confident manner. That you still love him and want to be married and be the best wife possible to him when he is ready to try to keep the marriage and start fresh. That, yes, you haven't been the perfect wife in the past but that you want to and can be better. That you both made a mistake by living independant lifestyles. I want you to know that even when things look bleak that there can still be hope for a complete turnaround in time. So many people give up too soon.

You need to look your best. Don't plead or be frantically needy to him. I don't know your husband. You know better than I could what he may respond best to.

It sounds like you are trying to keep it together for yourself. I hope the headhunter can find you a job. It would be great if you could get a good job soon so you wouldn't feel like such a drain on your H and you can have a bit of security for yourself. San Francisco is an expensive place to live. I would think that if you don't get something soon that you may need to relocate.

Lulu,

I gather he has read here, so he knows the principles--or he wouldn't feel so threatened by your posting here, and having your own support system..

you know, those who seem to be 'rallying' around him in support of his actions..not only are they not YOUR friends, but they are not truly HIS friends either..whether he realizes it or not

I know you mention he's working w/ OW on a project
so what's going to happen when the next project comes along and they aren't working together anymore? Would he be able to trust these so called friends to tell him what's going on? would he be able to trust them not to be walking in HIS shoes, and be the one having the relationship with her?? NO, he wouldn't..

Would he be able to trust HER to be faithful while working in another city? Would she be able to trust HIM?? Again, No--

I'm sure he thinks they would..because they are SOOO in love, but the reality is...they were both SOOOO in love with someone else just a few years ago..

I realize this sounds kinda negative like I'm saying your M will not work out...and to expect the worst, but that's not it at all, I'm saying this not really for your benefit, but for your h's--as I'm assuming if he's that threatened by what your sharing on here, and the support system you have here, he'll be reading again..and I'm hoping something I've said will make him think--
before he leaps..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ThornedRose:

you know, those who seem to be 'rallying' around him in support of his actions..not only are they not YOUR friends, but they are not truly HIS friends either..whether he realizes it or not

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Brilliant TR..... My friends rallied around me, held my hand, refused to tell me I was being an idiot and a cruel thoughtless person to boot. And you're right, they really weren't being my friends. To this day I wish they'd taken a stand.

C

<small>[ October 12, 2003, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: *LULU* ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He called my father and I think my dad tried to tell him the same thing...that if she cheats on her H to be with him, he has no guarantee that she won't do the same to him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your father is a wise man for it happens often enough that the WS of today will become the BS of the future.

Can your parents offer you temporary help if you and your children need a place to stay?

<small>[ October 12, 2003, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: *LULU* ]</small>

LuLu I'm glad that your situation is not dire enough that you have to depend on your parents for economic support but it's always good to know that they are there in case you do need their help both financially and emotionally.

During ordeals like this one, it helps to keep yourself busy with activities and people that enrich your life, and I beseech you to not become a recluse because of what's happening in your marriage. If you continue living your life to the fullest, you become an attractive person not only to others but very possibly to your WH as well. So please make every effort to continue making your life the best it can be.

<small>[ October 12, 2003, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: *LULU* ]</small>

<small>[ October 12, 2003, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: *LULU* ]</small>

Dear Lulu,

I really feel for you.

My advice is very short as I have not much time on my hands right now.

Start making those changes for YOU, now. Take steps to be the most attractive, desirable woman on this planet, not just for him but for you and your own self confidence. It is going to be tough because you are hurting so much and your WH consumes ALL of your thoughts. When he is not there you have to pretend that he does not exist. When he is there you show him the changes, show him your love that is unbreakable.

Listen to him, smile at him, give him a neck massage if he will allow it. Tell him that no matter what you wish him to be happy because you love him. All of this is Plan A. No angry outbursts, lovebusters. Read about them.

When you need to shout, scream, break down, do it with your support people, us, friends, family, in the car, in the park - but NOT in front of him.

This is the beginning of a tough road. I am going to give you another visualization. Imagine that you have to eat a huge elephant. You don´t know where to start, and it seems like it will take forever to eat it. The first bites are small. The first bites are hard to chew. But the more bites you take at it the easier it gets, and at some point you will get to areas which are more tender and easier to digest.

Get going at that elephant, and if you throw up once in a while, it is o.k, don´t beat yourself up about it. Get back to eating.

Another piece of advice. Let your WH do all the work. If he wants a divorce let him do all the paperwork. You do not need to sign anything until you are ready. (at least I think so, but I do not know the laws and regulations in your country or state). By Plan A:ing him, he might have the heart to go to counselling with you and understand that for your sanity this is going too fast. It will give you time.

But please start making those changes to be a better you. ALL of us BS know exactly what we have done wrong in our M to push our WS away from us. We all make mistakes. Don´t sit on your mistakes, do something about them. NOW.

-queen-

LULU-

Happened to see this, and I recall you from the EN board; I am so sorry to read all this.

You are getting really good advice, and I am not going to add anything except a couple of thoughts.

1) He is saying typical WS stuff. You need to hear what he says and split out the legitimate information (i.e., what in his eyes damaged the marriage) from the hurtful stuff (too late, will never love you again etc.). The info is useful...you can react to it with action, but take the hurtful stuff with a BIG grain of salt. 3.5 years ago my DH was sure that it was too late for us, and that the best thing to do would be to split. Maybe you can stall the filing, but if not, don't despair...filing is not necessarily the end.

2) My personal theory is that it is much easier to MB a situation like this if you know you will be fine. And Lulu, you will be fine. I have no doubt that you will come thru this process and be a better partner, with better marital skills. Hopefully, you will get to use all that in this marriage, but if worse comes to worse, you will not only survive, but have gained a lot of knowledge that will go with you wherever you go.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Lulu}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Lulu, I know this is very, very hard, and I wish you the best of luck.

Kathi

<small>[ August 04, 2003, 06:30 AM: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</small>

What's up?

Hey Lu,

Just a couple of thoughts. Although it's good and it's admirable to look at your part in the breakdown of your marriage.... in NO WAY DID YOU CAUSE HIM TO HAVE AN AFFAIR.

This is not your fault. There are ethical ways to handle the problems and conflicts in marriage. Infidelity is not one of them. No matter what you did or did not do, it does not ever make having an affair with another woman ok or excusable.

No matter what you did or did not do in the marriage, having an affair is by far the most thoughtless and cruel choice one spouse can inflict on another. It is a betrayal beyond which it would be hard to go.

This is not your fault. He chose to betray you, your vows, your marriage, and himself as well. And in doing so he also chose to trash the sanctity of another marriage.

I told him that I was sorry for the email exposure - that it was selfish and ugly and I was sorry - it was unforgiveable. He said that I didn't hurt him.

Lu, I know this is horribly painful and scary. But you did the right thing in exposing the affair, in sending the email. You did not betray him, he betrayed you, himself, trashed his lover's marriage, and betrayed her husband as well. He is not the wronged one here, he is the perpetrator of wrongdoing.

He kept gently pushing my hair out of my eyes and he asked me to look at him. He had tears in his eyes. He said that I had to let him go. That the changes I was going to make were not too little, but they were too late. He said the only reason he was going to continue to go to the MC with me is so that I could finally hear what he has to say.

I'm so sorry. This must hurt so bad. But you can't believe what he is saying. He feels it now. And he is under the influence now. You've been around here long enough to have seen what those of us who were once the WS say about it..... we all said those things when we were in the grip of the addiction. And we all wished we could go back and take it all back.... make the choice to preserve the marriage... to not stray.

He said he is going to file for divorce on the 15th of August. I asked him if he would wait until the end of MC sessions in two months, but he again gently said no, that if I really wanted his happiness, I would let him go.

I know it's impossible to believe based on what he is saying. But if he divorces you, his chances of being happy are drastically reduced. The studies and the stats bear that out over and over again. Doing the hard work of a real Plan A is an act of love, even though it seems counter to that at the time.

I told him I didn't want him as only a friend, but as a husband and as a lover and as a sweetheart. He said he could no longer do those things. He had to go.

Brain cloud.

This hurts so much. He is acting so quickly. How can I save my marriage when he is scheduled to start ending it in less than 2 weeks?

IF he files... and that's a big if.... it doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean it's over. Many people file and never go through with it. Quite a few divorce and reconcile. Just recently I met a woman who said her parents were divorced from each other twice and are still married.

I can't imagine life without him. What am I going to do?

I would hope that you are going to continue to do a full fledge Plan A followed by Plan B, so that when the affair ends and he wants to come home YOU are still willing to take him back. Right now, that's my biggest concern.

This feels so hopeless. I want so badly to be optimistic, to have hope. He's so adamant. He sounds so sure. I'm dying inside. I don't want anyone else. I only want him. Why can't I have just a small chance? Not that I deserve one...

Read my sig line. You cannot base what you do on the things he says. They are not real.

And yes you do deserve the chance.

{{{{Lu}}}}}

C

Lulu: I am going to do something unusual, and disagree with one little piece of what C says (?!?!?) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Lulu wrote: I told him I didn't want him as only a friend, but as a husband and as a lover and as a sweetheart. He said he could no longer do those things. He had to go.

C replied: Brain cloud. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, it may be a brain cloud (though that is a DJ), but that is where he is right now. Right now, he cannot do those things. It may feel to him like he will never be able to do those things again. That is how he feels. It will be true, if he continues to feel that way, and does not decide to act differently. We all know he could be capable of being and doing those things again if he chooses, but until HE makes that choice, he cannot and will not. As long as he feels that way, it is true, not a brain cloud. Plan A and B are designed to give him the best chance of making the choice to be and do those things again, once his affair ends. Plan A is the enticement. Plan B is to protect you so that YOU will still be williing when the A ends. Meanwhile, words like: "I can understand why you would feel that way." will make him feel understood and validated, and make him remember you as someone who understood him. Is that how you want to be remembered? That is what Plan A is about. Being the person you want him to remember when the A disintegrates.

Now John.... why is saying it's a brain cloud any different than saying it's fog talk? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And I don't disagree with what you say, that it's how and what he feels now... but those feelings are based on the fact that he is under the influence of his addiction and like all feelings are subject to change at any moment.

But, crucial to that change occuring is that the A end. Only then can he make a clear and rational decision about what he wants and needs in his future.

C

C: Have you ever started a post without knowing what you want to say? This is mostly a brain dump that is only somewhat related to what Lulu said, and what you said, but I feel a need to compose, and it may be relevant. According to a book I read recently, men were created by God with a deep desire for three things: a battle to fight, an adventure to live, and a beauty to win. It sure works for me. Many men mis-direct these desires toward destructive disputes: violence, affairs, sports and corporate competition that is self-destructive (and other-destructive) and crime, but it is not the desires that are the problem, it is the way they are expressed. In fact, society and the church frequently try to quench these desires because of their pervasive negative modes of expression, rather than challenging men to express them in a constructive, healing, wholesome way that is consistent with an abundant, vibrant life.

I also read last night in "Passionate Marriage" how Schnarch tries to speak to his clients as if they were capable of acting with integrity, or perhaps speaks to that part of them that is capable of acting, or at least wants to act, with integrity. A man who is acting with integrity will be following those three deep desires without abusing others.

Lulu has seen her husband follow those three desires: to live an adventure-filled actor's life, to battle for her attention (two cards/day?!) and his place in his chosen field.

I think a way to describe what has happened is: For him, the adventure of their life together had become a stress-filled rut of obligation. He feels he/they had been losing the battle in the marketplace, and his battle for her attention and admiration had become unrewarding, even frustrating, and it did not seem like those things were going to change. His adventure with her did not go as planned, the battles seemed unwinnable, and Lulu was distant and didn't seem to care - she let him go. He gave up on their adventure.

Now, he has a new adventure, a new beauty, and the odds in the battle seem to have improved. That's why the changes are too late. But, he has given up his integrity in the process. Furthermore, if it is true that he has really not had sex with the OW, then he may not even realize it.

Lulu needs to find a way to tap in to those desires again. To challenge him to act with integrity without accusing him of acting without it. To remind him of how hard he fought for her - does he really want to give up now that he has a chance to win? To tell him that she believes in him, and his ability to win the battles. And to show him that she is a beauty worth fighting for.

I'm not sure that helps. But, I had pretty much given up on my marriage about six months before my wife started her affair. It was by God's grace alone that I did not jump ship and have my own affair. The emotional chasm between us continued to widen in the ensuing three years of her hidden affair. Then, she confessed. I then knew about the ULTIMATE betrayal, and had a theologically correct reason to seek the divorce I had secretly desired. (Truth be known, part of me had wished her dead so I could be released from my felt obligation to remain married to her.) So, what held me? Just what I suggested Lulu should try to tap into with her H: I had fought so long, and so hard, for our marraige, could I really give up the battle just when there was a chance of winning? I knew some of what that confession had cost her. I knew it was the most profound step she had ever taken toward the marriage for us that I desired. I could not pass up the opportunity to at least see what might happen. Then I talked to God about it, and His direction was quite clear.

Lulu, right now your H is distracted. But, the affair will probably end. What then? Will your H remember the glory of the battles you fought together, the power of your friendship, the adventures you shared? Or, will he remember frustration and conflict and feelings of being overwhelmed by financial problems? A lot of that depends on what is the last thing in his memory banks about you - what happens between now and Plan B.

Plan A your heart out. (That does not necessarily mean avoid conflict - I think a woman who knows what she wants and fights to get it is very sexy, frankly.) And pray. Will it "work"? - To get your H back? Maybe. - To know you did the best you could? Yes. That is all anyone can do.

<small>[ August 04, 2003, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Johnh39,

Wow, that post was an inspiration to me. Thank you for posting it.

-queen-

<small>[ October 12, 2003, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: *LULU* ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by johnh39:
<strong>C: Have you ever started a post without knowing what you want to say? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL John,

You can ask that in all seriousness after reading the reams I've written in the last couple of years??

Yeaaah....

Good thoughts, and an interesting perspective. I have a similar train of thought about men, women, deity, and life/romance/relationships. But it hasn't jelled enough for me to put it all on paper... that and I have literally no time.

Really you guys aren't coming to the bonfire? I was hoping to get to know Mrs. John a little better. She seems very wonderful.

C