this is a very touchy situation to say the least. i agree with the coffee man...see an attorney...and NO! i'm not advicating that you begin a divorce proceeding! but you should know your rights and what can happen if it comes to that.

the way you make it sound, it's not just an affair you're up against..it's the social interaction that is so much a part of her life that it's more important to her then you.

tell us...have you ever been invited to enjoy a few beers with the "gang" after work? do you attend social gatherings that are work related with her? what efforts are you making to bring yourself and her family to the concious fore front in compatition with her work life....which sounds to be a totally private area in her life. i mean she's having a EA with her job and PA with her boss!

there has to be a way to confront this thing in a posative way. i just don't feel qualified to make suggestions as to how you should do it. i know how i would do it but my methods tend to run to the extreme, LOL and by the way, what does the W of the OM think about your W still working with her H? where is that ladies head for goodness sake! this thing is going on right in both of your faces.

if your current therapist doesn't have any ideas then find another...some one with a plan of action to bring to the table.

coach

one last thought...how about a serious heart to heart with her and then a plan B letter? only i would ask her to be the one leave! radicle i know and others may feel that plan A is still in your future. i just don't know what your level of tolerance is.

coach

Oh yes I know them all and have been to many parties with them even to OM house. Believe it or not we were just at a wedding with the OM and his wife at the same table. Talk about tension.
OM's wife doesn't like her still working there I'm sure, but not much she will do and apparently OM and W don't even talk about it and no counselling, just letting it blow over which it isn't. I think OM's wife has her head stuck in the sand. OM who is the boss by the way is very non chalant about it all and appears to be the only one not suffering. Just this morning I told her again I didn't like her situation and baasically told her I would be preparing to move out when we get back from a family trip. A hurried up PLan B I guess but I think it is the only thing that might make her realize I am serious. I believe she is getting a lot of bad advice from a so called friend that has a screwed up marriage and a very sexual lifestyle and not a family one. One last thought I believe W and OM may both be experiencing MLC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by decisions,decisions:
<strong> Just this morning I told her again I didn't like her situation and baasically told her I would be preparing to move out when we get back from a family trip. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In case you did not hear it when Coach told you, DO NOT MOVE OUT!! If you get nothing else from this forum, get this. If she wants to be seperated, let her move out. You are not the one who had an A, and in many cases moving out can be considered adandonment and could affect any future custody proceedings.
Michael

I have been lurking on this board for a week but after reading your posts I've decided to become a member and jump into the discussion.

PLEASE pay attention to the advice that's being given to you!!! You are obviously very hurt and frightened by what's going on in your life or you wouldn't have put a call out for help here. Everyone that has responded to your questions have tried very diplomatically and patiently to help you through this, but you seem to be sabatoging yourself and following your own way of dealing with your situation. (Which is why I've become a member...you might need someone like me to get the message across!)

Dude, WAKE UP!!! You are in a major battle here, fighting to save your marriage, and you're NOT listening to the advice of the "Generals". I know, that's kinda lame, but I hope you get my drift). You want & need help, but seem unwilling to listen & follow through with "The Plan".

These people know what they're talking about. I'll try my blunt way of saying what they're saying....SHAPE UP! Pull yourself together! Quit being a wuss, don't "grovel"...(it's not appealing to your wife & you'll end up feeling foolish later.) If you don't feel "strong", at least fake it till you make it. Re-read the advice that's been given to you and don't do anything but what's been suggested.

I don't mean to be brutal, but you probably have just a little "window of opportunity" here to save your marriage. I've had my share of marriage trouble and would highly suggest that you talk with your doctor about getting on an anti-depressant & possibly some xanax for those times that you feel like you're totally losing it. You DON'T seem to be listening to the "pearls of wisdom" that are being given to you, and maybe you're so stressed that you can't.

I hope I haven't crossed the line concerning the rules of this board...that's not my intention. Some people just seem to need things put to them in a more "in your face" way. Either keep doing things Your Way (which haven't seemed to work), or get out of your comfort zone & try the things that are being recommended to you!

Good luck...I pray that you'll be able to work through this. LISTEN to the advice being given to you!

going on this family trip with her may prove to be very beneficial. if that is, you go along as the man of the family and the father of your children.

in other words if you two are going as mom and dad room mates (which is what i think she may have in mind) then before going, establish the ground rules.

1. she makes no telephone calls to the office while she's away.
2. she certainly must make NO telephone calls to the the OM.
3. she agrees to behave in an appropriate fashion. that is no evening out alone with out you and the children...and no disrespectful dialogue during your time together.
4. you on the other hand will promise not to bring up the relationship and your differences at all. she can but you will not!
5. you will not make any disrespectful judgements or comments about her or your marital differences.
6. you will not expect her to sleep with you or have sex.
7. you both will agree to behave with civility and respect for each other.

and guess what? if she can't agree to these terms i would tell her that you're going to take the kids and go with out her...which is something that i'm sure has crossed her mind...(that she will take the kids and go with out you!)

and when you get back home...and if you decide to go to plan B, you ask HER to leave! you don't leave your home and children for any reason. discuss this with an attorney! VERY IMPORTANT!

look if you can't continue to plan A and if you're losing all respect and love then plan B makes sense but you have to do things in a correct an orderly mannor. every move requires patience, thought and planning. your enemies are haste and anger. be in control! say what needs saying but do it with out anger and do it in a non-judgemental way.

you can do all of this...YOU CAN! just think first before acting out no matter how much she provokes you.

good luck
coach

I have tried most everything that has been suggested to me from people on MB. She is determined to not leave her job at least not right now, because of the security thing. As I have said before she has not felt good about our marriage for many years which is one of the reasons she does not want to leave. I feel like I have to give her the opportunity to figure out what is important in her life, I know she is struggling with this. We did have sexual contact a couple of times while on our trip and it was mutual but I know it is still a touchy area. If I expect too much it seems to create tension and uneasiness.
Now that she is back to work she seems a little distant and probably thinking about OM and not about our future. It is strange because we still plan for the future and have a Catholic marriage retreat weekend coming up in 4 weeks.
One last thing I think I am pressuring her a little too much and keep forgetting to just try and have fun.

Hi,

Is going on a Catholic marriage retreat weekend a good idea? How are you going to be even slightly honest with the other participants if you don't mention your W's A? And you can't tell the other people about it without creating a bad situation with her.

The essense of retreat weekends is for people to share their insights and experiences. You as a couple are not in a position to do that at present.

Look at it this way. Your WW wants to have her life organised so that she can carry on the A with you accepting it. The retreat weekend will mean sharing about marriage with no mention of the A which is ideal from her point of view.

I would be interested to hear the views of more experienced posters but that's my immediate opinion. Incidently from being around this board I'd say you've got some of the best people helping you.

Going to the weekend retreat may be,like the late Dr Shirley Glass says, 'waxing a dirty floor' so I would reconsider you two going unless there is a willingness from your W to end the A with the OM and commit to rebuilding the marriage.

she is seeing an OM on a daily basis...continuing to cheat right in your face...(yes! what she's doing is cheating, even if she's not still having sex with him...and do you really believe...?) then telling you strait out that her job and social situation at work (because that's part of the whole cheating syndrom) is more important to her then you and her marriage...and you're feeling bad about pressuring the poor darling to much? and you're considering going to a catholic retreat with her? OK ! that's interesting.

has it occured to you that maybe you're not expressing your true feelings to her in a meaningfull way? because from what you post here, she just doesn't seem get it...but more important you don't seem to be able to make her understand that this situation is intolerable for you...unless it is tolerable for you.

your plan A doesn't seem to work because her EM's at home and in the office are seperate and she gets them all taken care of in seperate compatments. the woman is living two lives! why would she give it up? she's having a great time and now you're about to take her to a catholic retreat where she can play the role of mother theresa!

have you consulted a professional about this? why don't you give the Harleys a call and discuss it with them? let them tell you their opinion and help you plan a course of action; because as things are right now, you don't seem to be getting anywhere.

sorry for my blunt approach.
coach

If you are going to a Retrovaille weekend they are for marriages in need of a total overhall not just a tune up like Marriage Encounter. Marriage encounter is for good marriages to get better and Retrovaille is for bad marriages near divorce or even after to try and save them.

At Retrovaille there is no sharing of the personal stuff in your own marriage with the group. Only the facilitators share about their personal experiences. Many of those have experienced infidelity, separations, alcoholism, and any other bad stuff that can effect a marriage.

All the work you do is done alone, together back in your room. They give assignments to work on.

I don't think it is wrong to go even if your wife is still in contact with the OM.

Don't expect it to cure all your problems though. We had several other D-days after that weekend. I thought it got through to him and it seemed to be fine for a while but it wasn't the be all end all. Everything you try may help. We also went to a 'Getting the Love You Want' (Harville)IMAGO weekend that helped some too. The Gary Smalley weekend we attended was very much like the IMAGO only much less in depth. There was more hands on with the former. The Smalley's have a more indepth therapy weekend available than the one we attended.

After all the above I thought we were on the road to recovery after we had renewed our vows only to have my husband start a new 'friendship' with another OW within the next year. That one lasted 8 months. It was a PA twice (that he admitted to) just before I figured out what was going on. I do think I've learned the signs better this time and hope that I don't have to go through it again because I don't think I will want to stay married to him if he does it again (we've had the 3 strikes already).

We went to a Marriage Builders Weekend and are still working on the followup from that. All is going well.

It sometimes takes a lot longer than we think to get through this and have a better marriage, but it is possible.

I hope your wife wakes up and gets out of the fog soon but don't hold your breath. I believe NC is necessary for real success in the majority of cases.

<small>[ October 21, 2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: 4give ]</small>