I recently discovered that my wife had been having an affair with a married
> client of hers. Amidst other sordid details, I learned that this man had
> brought his three year old son along with him on a business trip - during
> which trip he engaged in sexual relations with my wife. I also learned that
> his wife is 10 weeks away from giving birth.
>
> When I confronted my wife about the affair, she agreed that she would no
> longer have contact with this client, except under the most pressing business
> circumstances. In addition, I confronted the man with whom she had the affair
> and he agreed that in exchange for me not telling his wife about the affair,
> he would no longer have contact with my wife.
>
> I subsequently learned that he and my wife have continued to engage in
> inappropriate contact (not necessarily sexual). Consequently, I have
> threatened to tell his wife about the affair.
>
> 1. Do I have a duty to tell his wife now (she is 10 weeks away from giving
> birth and, obviously, is unaware that her husband is having an affair, let
> alone brining their 3 year old son along with him on business trips during
> which he has sex with my wife), should I wait until after she gives birth or
> should I remain silent?
>
> 2. If I do tell his wife before she gives birth, am I liable for any adverse
> consequences to her and her fetus (ie if she miscarries)?
>
> 3. Alternatively, should I contact the wife's parents (on the assumption that
> once armed with all the facts, including the duplicity of their son-in-law and
> the potential harm to their grandchildren (both born and unborn) they will act
> in their daughter's best interests)?
>
> 4. Does it matter if my actions in informing the wife and/or her parents are
> not entirely motivated by altruistic intentions, but rather by a desire to get
> back at the man that had an affair with my wife.

The reason for exposure of the A(affair) is to inject it with a toxic dose of reality. Most OM(other men) are emotional vultures that prey on vulnerable married women just for extracting sexual favors from them, and the last thing they need to spoil the jollies is to have the A exposed to their BW(betrayed wives). Dr Willard Harley is a proponent of full exposure of the A to the world IF the WS and the OP continue having contact, emotionally and/or physically.

As far as telling or not telling the OM(other man) pregnant W(wife), I would contact her parents instead so they can offer her moral support when they tell her what her WH(wayward husband) has been doing on his so called business trips. But show them concrete proof because they may just not want to beleive a stranger that is talking badly about their son in law, especially if they have a high opinion of him. The advantage for the OM's W is that while the news may devastate her, she will be with the people who love her the most and can comfort her when the truth is finally revealed.

While the OM can be considered a scumbag your wife is no better. She went along with having an affair with a MM whose wife was pregnant. She went along with having sexual encounters with the OM with his 3 y.o child being there. It is your wife who should tell the OM's wife and apologize for what she did.

<small>[ August 03, 2003, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: tomaz ]</small>

My wife would never tell his wife (the guy is one of her biggest clients)

What a position to be in but I think you owe it to the OM's wife to inform her. What a complete scumbag this guy is. I have to agree with Tomaz that your wife has a broken moral compass.

I wonder how she would feel if you told her you went away on a business trip while your wife was pregnant with a big female client. You also took your 3 year old child with you to the hotel and while he was sleeping in the other room you proceeded to have sex with your lover. I wonder what your wife would think of you and if she would want to stay with you at all?

The fact that this OM continues inapproriate contact with your wife says a lot about him and your wife. I would contact the OM's wife immediately and her parents. You are not liable for complications that may occur. It is clear that the OM thinks you are a paper tiger and since he is a big client of your wife you will do nothing. The continued behavior of your wife is disappointing to say the least. I think you should lay all the cards on the table. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. She does not sound very remorseful.
I would also think about contacting an attorney to understand your options. I feel very sad for what you have to go through and to find out after all of this disrespect the contact continues. You need to protect yourself now emotionally, physically and financially.

Has your wife given you a reason for this awful betrayal? Has she shown true and honest remorse for what she has done to you and your marriage?
Has she been checked for STD's since this affair?
Is she serious about working on the marriage? Are you both in counseling now? I wish you luck.

"My wife would never tell his wife (the guy is one of her biggest clients)"

What it comes down to is what value she places on her marriage, what value she places on her integrity, and doing what is right or being a person of no morals or principles. She is going to loose the account anyways once you tell his wife.

<small>[ August 03, 2003, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: tomaz ]</small>

I had tried 2 post some time ago, but it got lost.

New angle: Neither your W or the OM are particularly scumbaggish. If they are, then there'd be no reason whatsoever 2 try 2 save your M. Who would want 2 be married 2 someone with
low moral character?

So, what do you want 2 do. If you want 2 save your M, you're going 2 have 2 take a look inward - yep, at yourself. Affairs don't happen in a vacuum. Your W wasn't getting some need met in your M, and either sought it elsewhere, or fell easy prey 2 the OM who was looking for someone in her weakened emotional state. Are either of them bad people? Maybe. You only know your W, you don't know the OM. So let's just consider him a nobody and treat him accordingly. No malice, no consideration whatsoever. But a little honesty can go a long way in a si2ation like this, so I believe his W has a right 2 know about what he's been up 2. Also, if your W wants 2 save her M, then she won't mind jettisoning this so-called "biggest client" or quitting her job. It might not sound like an attractive pair of choices, but facing consequences of bad decisions rarely does.

But it's important that you decide right now, right up front, whether you believe your W is someone you'd like 2 be married 2 or not. If she is, then by all means drop the villification - the labels, the anger, all of it. You'll lose that one, I guarantee you from experience (though my M isn't over, I've done an excellent job at postponing it so long as I behaved like a victim and treated my W like the perpetrator of a wrong).

Hope this helps a tad,
-2long

I told the OM's W and they just had a 3month old. I felt that it needed to be exposed for reality to hit all involved so that the A would not carry on further.

Now your particular situation is difficult since she is with child so I have no idea if I would hold off or tell her now. You could threaten the OM that you will tell his W if they do not cut off contact completely.

I'm sorry, but I gotta say that this situation is disgusting. How dare that man be bringing his son along on a trip with his OW. Not to mention that his poor wife is at home pregnant.

It's said repeatedly that A's happen because there may be unmet EN's, but this man has NO excuse! How is his poor wife supposed to fill his every EN when she's taking care of a 3 yr old and heavily pregnant at the same time??? That man's a selfish SCUMBAG. He has absolutely NO jusification for doing this to her.

I swear, some people just need a good sock in the eye sometimes!

Sorry for lamenting, but this makes me ill.

I can't say that I'd be excited to get news that my husband is being an unsupportive AHOLE when I am looking forward to the birth of our next child. I'm not sure that there's truly a good answer. It's quite a quandry to be in.

Perhaps you could tell your wife that if she doesn't sit down and write a NC letter NOW to that man, that you have his wife's number and you WILL expose this to her. Don't be nice about it. Let her know that you are SERIOUS. No playing around. Ask her how she would feel if she was that woman and then point out to her that his life doesn't involve HER with the exception of the time he is with her. He goes home to a wife who has no idea what her husband is doing to her and your W is playing party to hurting this woman. Ask her if she is enjoying being the tool that crushes this poor woman beyond anything that she could imagine. Ask her if she likes being used by a man who is an insecure piece of **** that is acting out like a child because he isn't strong enough to support his wife during her pregnancy and the raising of their son. Maybe something along those lines might make the fog lift even for a second.

And 2long, I'm sorry, I've gotta say something about how I feel about not allowing yourself to feel like a victim.

I have been married to my husband for 10 years. I've supported EVERY decision he's made. I've always told him that I would be wherever he wanted us to go. There has never been a moment in our relationship that I have not told him how handsome, smart, capable, what a great father he is, how much I love him, how no man compares to him, etc. I have _ALWAYS_ done this.

With that being said, I'd like to add that my husband resents anything I ask him to do beyond taking out the garbage. I am responsible for everything in our household. If I ask him to do ANYTHING, he resents it. I am his mother, his lover, his housekeeper, his laundress, his accountant, his lawnkeeper, ETC.

We have 2 sons. One son is autistic. He's VERY difficult. He takes apart the furniture, he daily rips out ALL of his toys, he hits, he's still in diapers, at age 4 he has the vocabulary of a 1 year old, he does not respond when his name is called.

As you can imagine, I feel MUCH pressure and anxiety in my life. About 6 months before dday, I slipped into a very deep depression. I was overwhelmed with my life, sick of struggling with it, and just gave up. Did the minimum I could do to get by in life, and lived very unhappily during that period, often having thoughts of suicide. I'd tried discussing my unhappiness with my husband, tried enlisting his help to do stuff around the house, tried to reach out to him for support, only to be mostly met with resentment. Occasionally he'd do something, but he'd throw it in my face "how much he does". He'd pick up toys in the livingroom a couple of times a month and act like I was making him do slave labor. I'd always thank him profusely when he did it, but when he'd throw it in my face how much he does, I'd remind him what truly was occuring.

So after months of my depression, he got sick of me. He got tired of having an unhappy wife. He didn't want to help me, he resented my asking. He didn't know how to help with the depression, not that he inquired as to what I was asking from him either.

Then comes dday, he tells me some girl at his work came on strong, then he went and had sex with her during the week (3 times in 3 days during lunch break). He tells me that he doesn't know which one of us that he wants (his EA with her was maybe a month). He tells me that I am useless (basically). He had conveiniently forgotten all of the times I WAS there for him. The times he was in the hospital and _I_ was the one to stand there holding the pee bottle for him when he couldn't. The time that _I_ drove with two kids, in the snow, down to the hospital because _HE_ wanted a coffeepot and tv in his hospital room. The _2 years_ he went through a period of agoraphobia (not wanting to leave the house) with him and comforted him and tried to him him through it. The on and off depression of his own that he suffered through. The times when he said he needed a break and I would take my toddler and preschooler on a _16_ hour road trip down to FL BY MYSELF, so that he could have some peace.

There have been MANY times in my marriage when MY EN's have gone unmet. In fact, he has done nothing but critize me for my sexuality (or what he considered to be a lack of it) since our first year of marriage (which could make us assume that he is a sex addict).

He has been an even husband. In 10 years, this was the first (admitted or even suspected) time he has done this. He is a great father. He is a steady worker. We have things in common, yes. But for me to consider his A as ANY fault of my own, or because of a problem in our marriage, I must object. I'm sorry, I don't believe I am a victim, per se. Heck, maybe I do, but I _DO_ see his act as VERY unjust. I do not believe that what he risked (did I mention that he DIDN'T use a condom??) for his A was so beyond selfish that I can find NO EXCUSE or NO REASON for it other than his own selfishness???

How can anyone say that an A happens because of ENs being unmet, but then turn around and say that an A is wrong and the WS is just being selfish and that the A has nothing to do with the spouse? It's very contradictory!

My goal with being on this site, is to find a way to move BEYOND it and forgive him for his moment of absolute WEAKNESS and selfishness. It's to learn how to make our marriage stronger. It's for me to learn how to be able to look at him and (hopefully one day) not think about what a selfish ahole he was for that week. Overall he is a good person. This is a blemish on his record. I can't imprison him with my anger for eternity because of it. But I cannot say that I will take any blame or even consider myself to be a part of it. I could not have been a better wife considering my circumstances. I have many times compromised myself (such as forgiving him for his A -- which I truly am coming to terms with, believe it or not), he should've been strong enough to do the same for me. I'm sorry to say that he wasn't, but I am stronger than his weakness, and I can survive it and learn from it.

Wondrme

One more thing --

What about those people whose spouses bring them home an STD or HIV? Are they not VICTIMS of thier spouses waywardness??

Eduard, I read your story. How did she take the news? Is it posted anywhere?

You should ask Ir001 who just found out that her H is having an affair. She is 7 1/2 months pregnant and has a 3 y.o. Hope this link to her thread goes through.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=003246
Personally, I think you should absolutly tell his wife. Of course it is not ideal to find this out while pregnant, but preggo woman are stronger than you think. I can't believe your W went ahead with this creep knowing he has a pregnant wife at home and a 3 year old with him.
Best of luck to you, I will keep you in my prayers

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> In addition, I confronted the man with whom she had the affair
> and he agreed that in exchange for me not telling his wife about the affair,
> he would no longer have contact with my wife.
>
> I subsequently learned that he and my wife have continued to engage in
> inappropriate contact (not necessarily sexual). Consequently, I have
> threatened to tell his wife about the affair.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do what you said. Do not threaten. Act. You already said what you would do. Why did you not do it????

I find it amazing that some of us use "unmet ENs" as a justification for going out and committing adultery. In other words, it is up to my spouse to make me happy, otherwise I will go out and find happiness elsewhere. It is a sad commentary that commitment, integrity,high moral values, and principles have stopped being important.

Wow, this is somewhat amazing.

Apparently I'm being accused of justifying my W's A because I wasn't meeting her ENs? Because I don't want 2 label her emotionally or morally weak or "broken?"

Bull feathers. There is no justification for an A, period. Never was. But does it do any good 2 remind the WS of that fact? Does it do YOU any good 2 think of your WS in that light? I don't think so. In fact, I know so. Read SAA. I've been reading it again, now that I believe that we ARE in recovery, and the new perspective is enlightening. Harley wouldn't villify the WS like so many people seem 2 want 2.

I know how much this hurts. I've been M'd over 27 years now. We have 2 kids. My W's first A with Rat Meat started over 12 years ago. It's been over 18 months since D-day. And it's been that long precisely because I held on2 this "I'm right, she's wrong, I'm the victim, she's the perpetrator" for so much of that time, as well as the fact that I have gotten no NC agreement and harping on that fact - anyway, I've prolonged this day precisely because of my choosing the victim role.

...in the meantime, we have a house 2 rebuild. We've got a teenage son who's really intelligent but is flunking some of his classes and is behind, and I've got a major project ramping up at work that I've fought for for over 15 years 2 get... (and my W has worked similarly hard 2 get where she is 2day).

What "worked" 2 get us in2 recovery... Radical forgiveness. Dropping all the anger and resentment. YOu have 2 do this yourself, because the WS can't do it for themselves, and will hold on2 it at least as long as you hold on2 yours. Is it easy? Hell no, it's not easy. It's very, very hard. But as you do so, you'll find it's also very, very rewarding. Literally, enlightening.

You can choose the path 2 enlightenment, or you can wallow in bitterness. Your choice.

I choose enlightenment.
-2long

<small>[ August 04, 2003, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

I found out long after the fire was gone from my W's A so I decided to not get any blood on my hands and keep my mouth shut. If it is still going on even in a purely emotional level you have to tell his W.

I've read your story and I truly feel for you. I am 7 1/2 months pregnant and I found out 2 weeks ago my husband was having an affair with a coworker. He swore to me it was over and yet I find out a couple of days ago he is still seeing her. Again he swears it is over but what to believe?

I haven't confronted OW yet. I haven't actually told her I would tell her H. Yes she is married too. I have sent vieled threats of telling her husband to her cell phone. If they continue to see each other I will tell her husband and send him copies of all the chats, email and text messages I have. I feel her husband has the right to know what his wife has been up to. Like you my intentions are not entirely noble in the matter.

As far as you telling his wife, I wouldn't worry about her being pregnant. While stress is not good for the baby my OB assures me he is much more concerned with my health than the baby's. They have a way of taking what they need.

Make sure you know where you want this to go. If you want your marriage to have a chance be careful of doing anything you can't take back. I know it is not fair that as the BS's we have to worry about that but, the truth is we do.

There is alot I could do to ruin both of thier reputations and make thier lives as misserable as they have made mine. But if i want my marriage to have a chance I can not go to far.

Good luck and i will keep you in my prayers.

the problem with making threats is that once made they must be met or you run the risk of never having any credability ever again.

further, i believe that you took the moral low road when you offered NOT to tell IN THE FIRST PLACE! no matter what, the correct thing to do is to tell...always! others may disagree but i've personally never herd a convincing moral argument to the contrary.

at this point, you should not only tell the OM's W, but you should tell the HR person at your W's place of business. you should contact the HR person at the OM's place of business as well! you should tell all of your W's friends and her boss at work. you should tell all of your friends and family and her friends and family as well! are you getting the message here? if it were me, i would take out an ad in your local newspaper!

telling the truth is not a LB...sorry! and if it is then it's just to bad because there are worse things in this world then LBing. being part of something dirty and dishonest being one of them. abusing a 3 year old child with unfaithful images of sex and dishonesty is also high on my list...so call me a prig!

coach

bigredesq,

I can not tell you what to do, but I will tell you what I did, as our circumstances are similar.

My W had an affair with a married man. I found out when the OM's W was 7.5 months pregnant. From the time I suspected, it took 1 month to get to the truth and all the while the A continued. I could not sleep nor eat very much during that 1 month. My W and the OM (a co-worker of hers) knew I was close, but they continued. The OM tried to convince me that there was nothing.

I found the whole truth with the use of a phone recorder and caught a 3 hour + conversation between the two of them that laid it all out. My W had broken it off. He was trying to convince her not to. He was pathetic. Not trying to make my W smell like a rose here. She did a terrible thing, and she was having a really tough time not giving in to him.

After I got the truth, let us just say I scared the s*** out of him. I told him that I would tell his wife after she had the baby and recommended that he tell her first after he/she was born. Like you I was scared for the unborn child and the innocent mother.

One month after the baby was born, I hand delivered to her house a 7 page letter outlining the details of the A, and two tapes containing the phone conversation as proof. The OM's W did not know who I was. I just rang the doorbell and gave it to her.

I almost did not follow through on it, but in the end did. I had 2.5 months to think and post about it. Was it revenege motivated for me? In the begining that was the sole motivation. In the end, it was minor. I just felt she had a right to know. I would want to know.

I found out on a Saturday, and on the Monday they no longer worked together. The OM a couple of weeks later started to e-mail my W again nice little love e-mails. My W forwarded his e-mails to me. My W promissed me honesty and followed through. After a week of this she e-mailed him telling him that she was sending them to me. He e-mailed her again stating that my W was stabbing him in the back.

My point is this. After I knew something was up and my W knew I was in terrible pain did not stop right away. Even with me threatening him, he did not stop, and he was scared of me. This is the fog. It seems that most A's go through this. The fog is powerful, but it can be cleared.

You seem to know who the OMW's parents are. If I were you are the very least I would tell the OMW's parents with proof. After the baby is born I would still tell the OM's W. The problem is that you do not know the parents, and they may hide it. I think by telling the parents that puts some light on the A.

In my case the OM's W knew. He told her because he knew I was coming. The OM called my W at work a couple of weeks before I went with the info and asked if I was still going to tell. My W said probably. I did not not hide it from her.

The OM's W called my W to confirm some stuff and that was it. They are working on recovery.

YOU HAVE NO REASON TO FEEL GUILTY FOR TELLING THE TRUTH. Just remember that there are innocents involved and they should be treated with respect.

In addition, you stated that the OM is a big client of you W. You do not state what kind of business this is, but there seems to be a fear that he could harm her business. I would try to find a way to hurt his business or job if he did such a thing in retribution. Does he have a boss to answer to?

bigred,

You seem to think you're obligated to protect OM's wife. I don't believe that you are. OM is aware of the consequences of continuing his behavior, and has chosen to ignore them. YOU are not the one who would hurt her by bringing the A to light. I also believe that telling her may help her in the end, by speeding up the end of the A. Plus, it will give her the tools to protect her child from that sort of sick situation again.

I have a five year old son. If he breaks the rules, he knows there are consequences. It is not my fault that he has those consequences, nor do I feel guilty about imposing them.

Finally, I am pregnant and have a child. I can be ferocious about protecting my family's stability. I personally would want to know everything I possibly could to arm myself and fight for my family.

I know this was a bit disjointed, but hope that it expressed my thoughts clearly.