Plan B is about the Betrayed Spouse. About protecting you from further pain due to abuse, neglect(after much time spent negotiating to make changes) and of course infidelity. Plan B is a last ditch strategy to save the marriage.

Plan B by definition means that you remove yourself from all contact with the spouse that is unfaithful (or causing great pain) in order to preserve your love for him/her and your willingness to reconcile when the affair comes to an end.

There is no such thing as a "modified Plan B" in which you continue contact but close yourself off. That's the Taker's strategy of withdrawal, and although it will serve to protect you to some extent from further pain, it will not serve to save the marriage. Your withdrawal and coldness while continuing to have contact will erode any deposits you've made during Plan A.

PBL Guidelines:

• I love you.
• I married you for life. I want to stay married to you
• I am willing to do what it takes to be the spouse you've always wanted and to address the things I did wrong in the marriage.
• The affair/neglect/abuse is so painful for me that it will destroy the love I have for you. In order to protect those feelings I must end all contact with you.
• As soon as the affair/neglect/abuse is over I would love to talk with you about our future.
• Until that time please respect my wish for no contact whatsoever
• In an emergency you can reach me through______.
• Arrangements for seeing children and handling finances are_____.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

C

Good guidelines

I needed this reminder. I am not in Plan B. I am not in Plan B. No matter how much I want to, anything that I do right now is withdrawal, not Plan B.

I want to be in Plan B so badly I can taste it. But I'm not.

Sigh. Be nice, J. Be very, very nice. Sigh.

Thanks Cerri for the guidlines and thanks J for the comment.

I too am trying to remember be nice, be nice, be nice. Kind of hard to do when your heart is breaking. But I know a sad depressed wife at home won't help him want to be there and end A.

If it is true that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger then I will be as strong as an ox by the time this is over. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lr001:
<strong>Thanks Cerri for the guidlines and thanks J for the comment.

I too am trying to remember be nice, be nice, be nice. Kind of hard to do when your heart is breaking. But I know a sad depressed wife at home won't help him want to be there and end A.

If it is true that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger then I will be as strong as an ox by the time this is over. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whoa!!! Plan A is not about being nice!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Plan A is a negotiating strategy to end the affair. Being nice will not do it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whoa!!! Plan A is not about being nice!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Plan A is a negotiating strategy to end the affair. Being nice will not do it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, what Cerri said. I'm in the unenviable position of being threatened with losing my daughter if I even -mention- the affair, our marriage, or any other ****ty thing that my partner has done in the last couple of years.

To put it mildly, this is ICKY. Or, really, it's a Plan A about a completely different subject. Not the affair, but the attempt to cut me out of my daughter's life. And the negotiation process there seems, slowly, to be working. I may well lose the marriage in the process. But protecting the kids is more important than saving the marriage. An awful thing, that, but true.

Sorry. Plan A is going well. H says that the affair is over. Of course he said that 3 weeks ago and I find out last week he's still seeing her. Swears this time it is over. I need to beleive him.

What I was refering to in the be nice, be nice is that I am having trouble dealing the the A. I am trying to be the best wife I can based on the fact he says A is over. Am I wrong? From what I have read I thought it was my job to make him want to be home with his family and not with her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lr001:
<strong>Sorry. Plan A is going well. H says that the affair is over. Of course he said that 3 weeks ago and I find out last week he's still seeing her. Swears this time it is over. I need to beleive him.

What I was refering to in the be nice, be nice is that I am having trouble dealing the the A. I am trying to be the best wife I can based on the fact he says A is over. Am I wrong? From what I have read I thought it was my job to make him want to be home with his family and not with her.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unless you have Conditions for Recovery in place.. see below, you can assume that the affair is not over.

Yes, enticing him back part of it, but only part... he needs to send her a letter stating that the affair is indeed over, that you know all the details, that he does not want to see or speak to her again the rest of his life, and that you will be told if she attempts to contact him.

If he's told you before that it's over, only to have secret contact with her again... he will do the same thing in the future. There need to be extraordinary precautions in place to make it next to impossible for that to happen. Accountability being a big one of those precautions.

Then he needs to agree to certain conditions... until he does that the affair isn't over. Or at the very least the risk to your marriage is not.

These are the things that need to go in the letter to her. LETTER, not take her out to dinner and tell her. It should be written by him with these guidelines, reviewed and ok'd by you and then you both put it in the envelope and mail it:

No contact letter to the affair partner:
• Out of respect and love for spouse and children s/he realizes that s/he must never see or speak to lover again.
• the relationship with lover was cruel and thoughtless and you did not deserve to be treated that way
• S/He is determined to be the spouse you deserve and have been missing
• S/He will not contact her again and asks that she respect his wish to end the relationship entirely
• You have been told all the details of the affair and will be told immediately if contact is attempted in the future.

Conditions for Recovery:

Radical Honesty. Each of you must learn to be honest, in a way that is respectful and courteous, about all the events in your life. This includes how you feel about things that each of you does. Your hopes, dreams, and plans. And is particularly necessary in terms of accountability. You each need to know where the other one is and what you are doing 24/7. There can no longer be the opportunity for one of you to have a secret second life. This is one of the conditions that allows an affair to flourish.

Eliminating things that hurt each other(love busters): This is where we look at things that each one does that either hurts or annoys their spouse. This ranges from abuse to simple habits that drive you wild.

Doing things to make each other happy(meeting needs): Being honest and eliminating hurtful things will stop the pain. And then in order to restore love to the marriage you both must re learn what it is that reach of you needs to feel happy and fulfilled in the marriage, and then find ways to enjoy doing those things.

Time as a couple: The primary reason marriages fall apart and lose the intimate connection is that couples stop spending time together as a couple. They do things with their kids or their friends and families. But to maintain, or rebuild, the feelings of love men and women in romantic relationships need to have time for just them.

Creating a way of life that is good for both of you at the same time(following POJA): You do this by making all your decisions in a way taking each other's feelings into account.

Here's Harley's info on Plan A and Plan B from the main part of this site.

C

Thanks Cerri. But, I have a question. He swears this time it is over and that he has told her so. I made the mistake of emailing her and telling her if there was any further contact I would tell her husband about the affair. How do I get him to agree to write and send the letter and is it necessary at this point? i.e. should I wait to see if there is indeed further contact. He will be going out of town week after next and if there is indeed still contact I will know from the activity on his computer when he returns. Can't tell now because he doesn't use the computer when I am home and I am always home when he is. But he will take it with him when he goes out of town and does not know about the recording software.

lr001,

Thanks Cerri. But, I have a question. He swears this time it is over and that he has told her so.

They all say that. He might mean it... in the moment. But without precautions that make it impossible to continue.. or at least very difficult... the temptation may well prove too strong in the future. An affair is an addiction. Same behaviors and actions are seen.

I made the mistake of emailing her and telling her if there was any further contact I would tell her husband about the affair.

Actually, I would say that was the right thing to do. And I would probably go ahead and tell him unless your husband agrees to the n/c letter and the C4R.

How do I get him to agree to write and send the letter and is it necessary at this point?

Necessary? I dunno. Advisable? Yes. How to get him to agree.... yeah that is difficult. I would approach him with your fears for the future and your need for closure and for safety and security knowing that he has ended it definitively in a way that YOU can see.

i.e. should I wait to see if there is indeed further contact.

You can. How will you know? And if there is, after repeated promises not to, then I think you need to seriously consider Plan B.

He will be going out of town week after next and if there is indeed still contact I will know from the activity on his computer when he returns.

<sigh> Is it necessary that he goes out of town without you? One of Harley's cardinal rules is that husbands and wives not spend nights away from each other. This is of even more importance when you are recovering from infidelity.

Recovery requires that the conditions that led to the affair be addressed and eliminated, along with any conditions that allowed it to flourish in the first place. A big part of that is the ability to have a secret second life....and nights away from home is a prime example.

Can't tell now because he doesn't use the computer when I am home and I am always home when he is. But he will take it with him when he goes out of town and does not know about the recording software.

A spygirl... I like that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Didja get through all the reading for the day?

I got thru the reading. Thanks Cerri you are a big help. He has to go out of town on business. A class he has to attend out of state. She will not be there. They work for different departments. Any contact will be by email or chat and I will have a record of all of that. If I find out he is still seeing her then I will definately consider plan B. The problem with plan B is that we live on a military base and unless he agrees to leave I am stuck. I have nowhere to go, will not leave our 3 (nearly 4) year old with him and since he is the military member I can not make him leave. And I'm pregnant and will be having the baby Oct 8. I have to have a c-section and will need his help. I don't think I can take care of an infant and a 4 year old immediately after major surgery. It's pretty sticky. So I need to try as hard as I can to make this work with plan A.

Trouble is that he is still in the place where he won't admit that the affair is a problem. Only the circumstances in our marriage that led up to it. How do I make him see that regardless of what the problems were this was unacceptable and I didn't deserve it?

Hello Cerri,

I've never posted a reply to one of your threads in the past (but have read many of your threads) and have been referred to this thread by another MB'er.

I am in Plan B...I don't want to say it's modified but due to required dropoffs with a young daughter, I see him.

This is my problem. Can I prevent this? Not without significant issues from my family and his...everyone believes it's time for MY civility.

What do you believe to be the best approach to my demeanor? Should I say Hello/Goodbye...how should I address his attempts at conversation? When he does attempt to converse about, for example, daughter's success at most recent swimming lesson, should I acknowledge, or should I remind him of conditions of PBL (i.e. ask him if affair is over, if not, there's no reason to converse with me...etc.)

Thanks for your time and you invaluable insights.

Hi Terrified,

I am in Plan B...I don't want to say it's modified but due to required dropoffs with a young daughter, I see him.

Is that because you know you'll get a rant if you say the "M" word to me???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Where are these drop offs occuring? At your home? How old is your daughter?

This is my problem. Can I prevent this? Not without significant issues from my family and his...everyone believes it's time for MY civility.

Uhhhhh.... why is that? The civility thing I mean.

I'm assuming A. How long? With whom? What have you done to negotiate and end to it?

What do you believe to be the best approach to my demeanor? Should I say Hello/Goodbye...how should I address his attempts at conversation? When he does attempt to converse about, for example, daughter's success at most recent swimming lesson, should I acknowledge, or should I remind him of conditions of PBL (i.e. ask him if affair is over, if not, there's no reason to converse with me...etc.)

Well, here's the thing. Plan B is to protect you, not to punish him. So you don't want to be rude and cold, that would undo any good Plan A work. At the same time, you don't want to put yourself in the position of feeling like you're enabling or being taken advantage of.

So what are some (even impossible sounding) alternatives for the switching of child times?

C

lr001,

I got thru the reading.

Good job!

He has to go out of town on business. A class he has to attend out of state. She will not be there. They work for different departments. Any contact will be by email or chat and I will have a record of all of that.

Well?????? Was there????

If I find out he is still seeing her then I will definately consider plan B. The problem with plan B is that we live on a military base and unless he agrees to leave I am stuck.

Is he military? Is she? If so you have the means to end the affair right now. The military frowns pretty hard on infidelity and will not tolerate it.... as BS's shouldn't.

I have nowhere to go, will not leave our 3 (nearly 4) year old with him and since he is the military member I can not make him leave.

Oh yeah...... if there is contact again, you need to go to his supervisor. Yes, he'll be angry. Go read what I wrote earlier today at my thread about the anger WS's have for the things you need to do to end the A and how that changes once they are through the withdrawal period.

And I'm pregnant and will be having the baby Oct 8. I have to have a c-section and will need his help. I don't think I can take care of an infant and a 4 year old immediately after major surgery. It's pretty sticky. So I need to try as hard as I can to make this work with plan A.

A HUGE part of Plan A is exposing. For the sake of your kids... oh my gosh... three little ones who need their family intact.... you need to do some really difficult things.

We don't know that you can save your marriage by ending the A, but we do know that as long as it continues there is no hope of fixing it. And that the longer it drags out the more difficult recovery will be.... if YOU are willing to reconcile once it ends.

Trouble is that he is still in the place where he won't admit that the affair is a problem.

Why should he? There's been no adverse effects or consequences for him because of it.

Only the circumstances in our marriage that led up to it. How do I make him see that regardless of what the problems were this was unacceptable and I didn't deserve it?

Only time, and even then it doesn't always happen. Some unfaithful partners never apologize and never admit they were wrong. You can still recover, it's more difficult but it is possible.

But first it needs to end. Explicitly. And there need to be extraordinary precautions to ensure that it won't happen again.

C

<small>[ August 13, 2003, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Stephan ]</small>

Thanks Cerri for your input. I know the military frowns on adultry. At least publicly. Privately thier position is "Don't get caught". They tend to do everything they can to protect each other from being found out. Once it is out though they switch to "this is against regulation" mode.

Trouble is it is a small post and if this is made public could have very adverse effects on my husbands carreer. If we are able to work out our problems this is something i have to consider. Jeopordizing his carreer will hurt me in the long run no matter the outcome of the M.

I have thought about calling someone who works for the department that I know rather well. I used to be in the same national guard unit until the birth of our daughter. I'm just afraid of contact getting back to him. I know I have to do some difficult things, I just am not sure how or if I can.

I want to beleive he has ended it with her but my gut feeling tells me he is just getting better at hiding it. He leaves sunday for his trip so I will KNOW what is going on next friday when he gets back. The wonders of moder spy technology!

I know this has to end. I'm pretty sure it hasn't. But I am scared to death of loosing him if I take all the necessary steps to make it public and end it. I read your comments on the other thread about WS anger at being exposed. I'm just afraid that he will see it as having his professional reputation ruined along with his personnal reputation adn never forgive me for it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lr001:
<strong>Thanks Cerri for your input. I know the military frowns on adultry. At least publicly. Privately thier position is "Don't get caught". They tend to do everything they can to protect each other from being found out. Once it is out though they switch to "this is against regulation" mode.

Trouble is it is a small post and if this is made public could have very adverse effects on my husbands carreer. If we are able to work out our problems this is something i have to consider. Jeopordizing his carreer will hurt me in the long run no matter the outcome of the M.

I have thought about calling someone who works for the department that I know rather well. I used to be in the same national guard unit until the birth of our daughter. I'm just afraid of contact getting back to him. I know I have to do some difficult things, I just am not sure how or if I can.

I want to beleive he has ended it with her but my gut feeling tells me he is just getting better at hiding it. He leaves sunday for his trip so I will KNOW what is going on next friday when he gets back. The wonders of moder spy technology!

I know this has to end. I'm pretty sure it hasn't. But I am scared to death of loosing him if I take all the necessary steps to make it public and end it. I read your comments on the other thread about WS anger at being exposed. I'm just afraid that he will see it as having his professional reputation ruined along with his personnal reputation adn never forgive me for it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's HAVING the affair that will ruin his professional and personal life, not the exposure of it....

If the A does not end, then it is very likely that your marriage will. We are so brainwashed in our society to think that divorce is an easy painless way out and that we can just get on with our lives. Those of us who have been through it know that's not the case at all.... far from it. The effects are far reaching and have some lasting effects.

Also, 47% of first marriages in the US end in divorce. 65-80% of second and subsequent marriages do. Your chances... or that of your husgand ... of being more successful in a future relationship are not all that great.

But before you can begin to salvage your marriage the affair needs to end. One of the best ways to do that is to expose it. Of course he'll be angry, he's an addict protecting his source. But the devastation is not the fault of the exposure it's due to the affair itself.

Here's some links about the effects of divorce.

http://www.smartmarriages.com/divorce_brief.html

http://www.mediate.com/articles/psych.cfm

http://www.americanvalues.org/html/r-unhappy_ii.html

C (who has the world's MOST depressing set of bookmards... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

Thanks Cerri....I know you are right. It is just so hard sometimes.

Funny you should mention divorce statistics. This is my first marriage but it is my husbands third. Not very encouraging.

When he comes back from his trip if I find the affair is still going on I WILL expose it. If he is still involved with OW he won't be able to keep from contacting her for a whole week and the only computer he will have available to use is the personnal computer.

Right nowI am in a "wait and see" mode and doing everything I can to avoid LB'ers. Some days are better that others. It just gets so hard sometimes when you are hurting so much.

Wish me luck. And if I havn't said it before THANK YOU. Finding this site and you has truly been a blessing from God.

Hi Cerri,

Okay, now you got me worried. I have been a little rude and cold in my demeanor. I've now ruined all my Plan A efforts, haven't I. It's been somewhat confusing for me. Do I smile and say Hello and Goodbye "normally"?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Where are these drop offs occuring? At your home? How old is your daughter? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The dropoffs occur more generally at my IL's. However, they do sometimes occur at home depending on the time. My daughter is 4.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uhhhhh.... why is that? The civility thing I mean.

I'm assuming A. How long? With whom? What have you done to negotiate and end to it?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Civility...my mother and IL's wants me to treat him civilly. No anger. Like friends for my daughter's sake.

A with a woman overseas (in the signature line). She's still there. Went PA in Oct'2000. EA before that, I guess. They have seen each other 3, possibly four times.

He calls her regularly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well, here's the thing. Plan B is to protect you, not to punish him. So you don't want to be rude and cold, that would undo any good Plan A work. At the same time, you don't want to put yourself in the position of feeling like you're enabling or being taken advantage of.

So what are some (even impossible sounding) alternatives for the switching of child times?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, I think I can come across as rude and cold. I just don't want to open the door to conversation which is what he tries to do.

I often try to seek alternatives. His parents, my mother, my friends, etc.

God, I think I've screwed up.

Terri ... I answered you over in GQII