For all of you WS, I have some questions. Please try to help me understand.

My H is the WS, and he does not discuss his feelings very much. So I am working in the dark alot as to what he is feeling about things. First question,

1) I know that he is going thru some pain. What kind of pain? What should be going thru is mind right now?

I'll be honest, right now I am having a hard time relating to any pain he is having. I mean, really, he has had the best of both worlds here and now that we are trying to work things out, he is still getting the better end of the deal.

2) Is there anything I can do, say that would help?

Thanks for your answers guys.

Vic1

Vic1, I'm sorry you are going through this. Have you tried asking your husband what his pain is, or if there's anything you can say or do to help?
I can only answer your questions based on my experience, but hope it helps some. Obviously, I don't know your husband, so I can't know exactly what he's going through, or what the exact situation is.
There is much agreement by Dr. Harley and on MB that a WS will go through withdrawal from the OP and the A, much like a chemical addiction. I don't know if we get addicted to the person, or to the rush of the A, or both, but I can tell you, withdrawal can be a private hell, much like going through the mourning process after a loved one dies. I knew the A was wrong, I wanted NC, but still the withdrawal was killer, so then I felt even more guilty because I didn't understand how I could miss OM so much, even though I wanted to repair my marriage and was so thankful for a second chance with my H.

Also, I felt like I had no one to talk to, especially my H, because I didn't expect him to sympathize with pain that I had caused myself in the first place! He said I could talk about anything, but if I mentioned anything about OM, my H would hit the emotional skids, sometimes for several days, and completely withdraw from me, which made me feel worse. I found I couldn't talk to friends or counselors, either, because even though they were nonjudgmental and supportive, they just didn't want me to think about or mention OM. It's a catch-22 situation, really. Maybe if I had come to MB, I could have found other WS to "talk" to. Maybe that would be good for him, too?
The best thing my H did to help me was to keep reassuring me of his forgiveness and love, go to counseling with me, read the suggested books, and spend set-aside time with me, trying to create a completely new M.

Hang in there. Try to be patient. God bless.

<small>[ August 07, 2003, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Rose55 ]</small>

My H is the WS, and he does not discuss his feelings very much. So I am working in the dark alot as to what he is feeling about things.

First, has he given up contact with the other woman? If he hasn't this could be why he won't discuss his feelings. As long as he has contact, his loyalties are going to be to her.

1) I know that he is going thru some pain. What kind of pain? What should be going thru is mind right now?

If he has been exposed and is having no contact, his pain is loss. I can tell you that I am in the midst of my A and if I lost the OM I would be devastated and lost. You have to understand that the OW was filling needs that you were not able to at that time. (I am not justifying - just telling you what I feel as a WS.)

I'll be honest, right now I am having a hard time relating to any pain he is having. I mean, really, he has had the best of both worlds here and now that we are trying to work things out, he is still getting the better end of the deal.

It sounds like the A is still going on when you say he has the best of both worlds. It has to end.

Is there anything I can do, say that would help?

Has the A ended? You can't help him til it's over. And truthfully, doing everything you can to make it end is the most loving thing you will ever do...and he will probably hate it.

Jerri
WS for over 5 years - want to end

I read my post above and wanted to make sure it comes across right. I am a WS spouse for over 5 years - I confessed on 2 different occasions and my husband "forgave" me thinking it was over. But he has never taken any action, never researched for help, just continues to live in lala land. I pray for the day that he fights for me. I pray for the day he exposes me. I pray for the day he tells me no contact. I love him. I have always loved him. But I felt so alone at one point that I looked elsewhere - and this has been the same OM all this time! I won't fill you in on the sick details, but it is ridiculous to have gone on so long. It is not my husband's fault I had the affair, and it is not his fault it still goes on. But my husband needs to take his head out of the sand and see me. I know he loves me.

That is why I say the most loving thing you can do is demand NO CONTACT. Plan A him! Plan B him! But do something!

My prayers are with you.

Jaref, I'm writing this with compassion: You can end the affair without your husband forcing you to! It will be VERY painful, but if you want your M to succeed, you have to make the choice to leave your OM and put all of your energy into your M! Would your husband go to MC with you? That's a good first step. Then you can talk about your feelings in a safe environment. God bless you.

Hi Vic1

I am not the WS but I have not talked to you for a while thought I would stop by and say hello.
How are things going?

Have a nice day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Rose55,
I know I can end it - I am the only one who can (besides OM). It's like I know what I want (to save my M), but I love the OM, too. I know it's the fog. I tried counseling before - I had this sorry counselor who told me I could be faithful to no man, so I should divorce my H, dump the OM, and just be single. She did some good for me in other areas, but in this area she sucked. Everything in me knows that being with my husband and loving him is the right thing to do. Believe it or not, I am a Christian and I know what I am doing is wrong and I know there will be judgement on me. Truly, I think my problem is I have no friends, no one to confide in. You can't live like this for long and expect to have friendships. How can you when 50% of your life is a lie (and in my case, 100% of it is a lie. Someday I will open this up to all of you.) I am going to start opening up to the Members on the board and develop relationships that are about building marriages, not destroying them. And I'm gonna find another counselor.

Anyway, I just wanted VIC1 to have some hope...I love my husband and always have. ANd what I did truly had nothing to do with him, but with me...and I think that's how all As are!

I had an EA some years ago which my wife found out now. She is going through grief and pain and not communicating inner feelings much , keeping no physical contact and taking advise on chat from a man friend who she says is helping her.
As for me, I am going through pain for her and I want contact with her for I know that will help her heal, I know she loves me but does not say it.
How do you feel yourself? How much time will a BS take, mine is saying I am rushing her by saying nice things like I lover her and want her. I am confused too.

Jaref,

It really is no wonder to me that you have no friends; you spend all your time maintaining two deceptive lives, where would you find the time?

You seem to know the course you need to take, but you also seem to be blaming your husband for not coming to your "rescue" from what started as something you wanted, but now wish to end.

You say that your husband has "found out" twice, but hasn't "fought for you." A question; What are you giving him to fight for? There are obviously things that you need that you don't get from him, and vice versa...

After five years of this, is it possible that he has adjusted to this life, such that it may be?

And in the end, isn't it your responsibility to do the right thing and end the affair, whether he fights for you are not? Are you abdicating your moral responsibility to your husband?

Just some thoughts....

Jake.

Hi Vic. I'm a FWW who had an EA...D-Day almost a year ago.

Yes, I went through pain, and still do at times. The pain was for a couple of different reasons, which seem to be at odds.

1) Pain at the loss of the relationship with the OM

2) Sadness for the hurt I caused my H

3) Shame, guilt, remorse, confusion, anguish a the entire situation and the role I played in it

As I told you, it's now almost a year past D-Day. Six months past D-Day, I posted the following post re-capping the thoughts and feelings I had experienced. I'm going to post it now for you in the hopes that you can get some insight into the confused mind of a WS.

But first, let me say this: the best thing you can do is love your husband and continue to show him you love him. THE MB PRINCIPLES WORK. Keep reading here, and implementing what you learn.

Here's that old post:

**********

What a roller coaster ride this has been! Had an EA that was interrupted by his wife finding evidence on the computer almost six months ago.

Trying to characterize my jumbled and often irrational emotions...

D-Day Shock. Numb. Realizing only that it has to be over but not knowing how I'm going to live with that. Reeling. Say good-bye to OM but don't realize that this will be the last time I'll ever see him in my life...don't grasp the finality of it. Dimly realizing that I need to be with my husband and restore my marriage,but not knowing how on earth this will happen. Husband reeling and numb also.

2 days after D-Day Husband wrestling with "How could you do this?" Me trying to explain by dredging up every uncaring and hurtful thing H ever did to me. Basically my attitude to him: "I'm sorry I hurt you, but this is all your fault. It never would have happened if YOU hadn't left me vulnerable to it."

4 days after D-Day I honestly haven't been thinking about OM too much: the reality of my H's pain and confusion is all I could deal with. But suddenly, while taking a bath,I'm hit with the full force of my grief over the loss of OM. It's a physical jolt. He has been my friend for over 2 years and he can now no longer be any part of my life.

5 days after D-Day Without even being familiar with MB principles, my H has instituted an ironclad NC rule. I violate that by I'M-ing with OM for about a half-hour...my first contact with him since D-Day. We re-hash what happened,catch each other up on our situations. We realize that it is definitely over and we have to commit to our marriages, but we still think we're in love,think we're star-crossed lovers. In short, fog is thicker than pea soup.

9 days after D-Day Desperate for contact with OM, I find a way to send him messages "under the radar." We are able to get cryptic messages to each other this way. Ironically,even WHILE this is going on, I'm realizing that I do love my husband,he loves me,and I want the marriage to work. (I can hear BS's screaming "HOW could you do have feelings for both of them at the same time??????" I honestly do not know. I HONESTLY DO NOT KNOW. Go figure. )

About 2 weeks after D-Day Husband follows that "gut" feeling that you BS's are so famous for,and finds the under-the-radar messages. All holy hell breaks loose. The rage and fury he DIDN'T demonstrate on D-Day explodes. To him,this is worse and more damaging and awful than the original D-Day,and will be a source of mistrust and fear for him for months to come.

However...it is the real beginning of the fog lifting. Not completely, but it was needed because it frightened me horribly...no,he never touched or hurt me, but it gave me the VIVID, UNMISTAKABLE reality that I could lose him forever. That I WOULD lose him forever if NC was violated again.

One month after D-Day Things are not good,not good at all, although we are going through the motions. H and I both going through the motions of trying to fill each others EN's. I feel I owe him that,and truly want to reassure him that I'm not going to deceive him again. He,anxious for me to know that he really DOES love me and can't live without me.

BUT...he is fearful and mistrusting to a paranoid degree. He must know where I am and what I'm doing every second of every day and night. I feel like a prisoner,and am thinking "I can't live this way," and it's making OM seem more and more appealing. Despite H's right to these things,it is a major,major lovebuster.

2 months after D-Day A crisis point is reached,which I will not recount on this forum. The upshot: H realizes that if does not stop LB-ing,he stands a good chance of losing me. It precipitates a MAJOR change in his approach. Still adamant about NC, but loses the jackbooted Gestapo approach to keeping me on the straight and narrow. Reaps huge dividends for him in my attitude toward him.

3 months after D-Day I'm still missing the OM terribly,painfully,despite knowing that the relationship is over and that I need to be with my husband. Still thinking I love OM,while at the same time,busting my rear to meet H's needs and reaping great dividends from that.

H has a lot of bad days,painful triggers,but I'm learning to show patience and kindness when he experiences that.

Sometimes my expressions and acts of love toward H feel forced and false,but they are becoming more natural and there are great moments of love and tenderness with him.

Still feeling "love" for OM at the same time! You're screaming: HOW???? HOW???? The answer: I DON'T KNOW.

About this time, I get solid proof (again, I won't tell you how) that OM is moving on with his life,doing everything he possible can to restore his relationship with his wife and God,and is being singlemindedly determined about NC. This knowledge,while painful on one level,is wonderfully comforting for me. He's moving on: I can,too. IT'S REALLY OVER.

About 5 months after D-Day Discover Marriage Builders site through a Google search. Wake-up call the very first day: I'm whining about how much I miss the OM, when some straight-talking BS's tell me to start thinking about how much I've hurt my H instead. That I don't miss the OM, I miss the fantasy he and I spun together.

This turns out to be the single biggest factor in dispelling the fog. Yes...coming to this site. Reading and realizing the truth: that what the OM and I had was not a one-of-a-kind grand passion,but actually a fairly trite cliche. Being confronting with the devastation and pain of the BS.

So,where I am NOW?

Finally feeling abatement in missing the OM! Going long periods of time without thinking about him at all!

Feeling more love and tenderness for my H. ENJOYING meeting his EN's. Thanking God that he loved me enough to stick by me. Planning to do everything I can to make sure we stay together for a lifetime. Seeing more clearly than ever the delusional fairytale that my EA was...seeing more clearly the faults and failings of the OM. Appreciating more and more the integrity and genuine love of the man who made incredible,tender love to me last night,despite being completely familiar with my stretch marks,less than perky boobs,and how I look when I first wake up in the morning!

THAT'S THE MAN WHO REALLY LOVES ME, and that's the man I love and want!

I now understand that there will be setbacks. There will be major LB's on both our parts. Neither of us will ever be the same...but God willing, we'll be better.

--------------------

Vic1, here is another old post of mine in which I talked about the things my H did right, post D-Day. It also gives some background about my EA. I hope it helps you get some insight. Best wishes!

*****
The FOM and I had been online friends for two years,having met on a Christian forum that was very spiritual and wholesome. In fact,FOM was one of the most intelligent and able theological debaters on the site,and had actually set up a lot of hedges around his marriage...his wife knew all his online passwords,for example,and was free to open all his e-mail. (The EA was mostly conducted through online chat and phone calls). Neither of us had EVER had anything like this happen to us before.

It kind of happened like the proverbial frog in the kettle. Starting out completely wholesome,innocent,even spiritual,then before you know it a connection has been formed that is very strong. The catalyst for what became an intense online EA was when we finally met in person (under very innocent circumstances,with our spouses and a lot of other people present).

Meeting and realizing there was physical chemistry on top of the mental and emotional connection was just too much. Within days after meeting,we had convinced ourselves that we were in love with each other,were soulmates that were destined to be together forever,and were making longrange plans to leave our spouses and marry each other.

Well,after two months of this,we were found out... and it was immediately clear that we had been living in a fantasy world. Bottom line: we are both Christians who believe in the sacred covenant of marriage,and there was no way we could justify violating that. We do not have contact with each other at all,but I have solid reason to believe that he and his wife are doing everything possible to restore and heal their marriage,and my husband and I are doing the same.

Quite honestly,the withdrawal was horrible for me. Ghastly,painful. However,I kept most of the pain to myself,not wanting to hurt my husband with the fact that I still had such strong feelings. (However,with that sixth sense that husbands often have,my husband sensed it strongly.)

So even though I would technically characterize only the last two months of the relationship as an EA,it probably bordered on that for some time previously.

Why was this man so important to me? Well, I could write a book on the sadness I was feeling about my marriage prior to the EA,and even prior to the online friendship at all. Although I'm seen as outgoing and even successful,I have had a major inferiority complex all my life. My parents and siblings were my cheerleaders, but my husband had pretty much ignored this need. I also was convinced my husband did not care about my needs or my feelings AT ALL,and I didn't even believe he really loved me. OM came along and cared very much about me,my talents,my abilities,my skills. He also thought I was beautiful and desirable,and told me so...something else my husband never did. There's more,but you probably don't feel like reading a book!

Basically,although I did care for the man,I'm sure I cared most for the WAY he made me FEEL. That's probably true of your wife too,and that's good news for you,because YOU can make her feel the same way!

You also asked:
Was there anything imparticular your H did or didn't do that was a tremendous help?

Well,the very first thing my husband did made an enormous impression on me. When I had told him everything,he sat there stunned for several minutes. Then he came toward me (I was sitting in a chair across from him). I flinched, thinking he might hit me or something, although he had never physically abused me before. Instead,he put his arms around me and told me he loved me.

This wasn't enough to lift the fog at the time,but it was a powerful gesture that moved me tremendously and stayed with me during the next few weeks.

At first,my husband did a lot of things wrong. BS's,in your justified demands of NC and need to know where your WS is at every moment, please remember that this can be very strangling and claustrophic for the fogbound and emotionally fragile WS. I know,you're thinking "tough luck"...and I agree that NC is of paramount importance; I'm convinced I never would have emerged from the fog without it. But be careful about your spirit and attitude while enforcing it. If you come across as a jack-booted Gestapo,that is going to be counter-productive and HURT your cause,not help it.

This very nearly happened in our case. In my H's zeal to control every move I made,even getting freaked when I would spend too long in the restroom at a restaurant (something I've ALWAYS done),I felt like I was going to lose it,and I almost did.

OK,what he did right:

1)He wised up and stopped L-B'ing by being too controlling of my every move. (Yes,you have a right to know all about your WS's schedule,but let them take a pee without freaking.)

2)He started meeting my EN's in a big way. He would send me e-mails and cards telling me how beautiful and desirable I am,and how much he loves me. (FYI,I am doing the same things for him). Whereas he had never been one to show any affection in front of other people, he started going out of his way to do so! We constantly hold hands and even occasionally kiss in public now,something that makes me feel wonderful.

3)He has arranged nights away for just the two of us,and treats me like a queen during those times.

4)He has gone out of his way to bring me thoughtful little (and sometimes big) gifts "just because."

5)He makes a point to praise me and brag on me in front of other people.

6)He makes an effort to do fun things with me,takes me out to dinner,enjoyable time together without talking about the EA.

These are the main things. One thing I need to tell you is that,even during my Fog,I was going through the motions of trying to restore my marriage. I was making a major effort to meet my husband's EN's despite the fact that often, my heart wasn't in it.

As his love for me has become more obvious and overt,I have responded to it in kind. The love I had for him that smoldering inside me has caught fire again. As he shows me more love,I show him more love,and it becomes a beautiful cycle!

Coming on this site helped tremendously...it caused me to do a couple of things to actively work on getting the OM out of my mind. Also,it helps to know that the OM is working on HIS marriage too,and is not contacting me at all. If I thought of him as still yearning for me,that would make it doubly hard to let go.

We still have setbacks. Just last night my husband had a major trigger episode that left him scared and shaking. He had nothing to worry about,but he doesn't KNOW that. I held him, reassured him of my love for him and my faithfulness to him,but I know there will be these times. It's part of the painful fall-out,the inescapable consequences of my actions.

And to be honest,I know there will be periods of sadness for me about the loss of the OM's friendship. I'm being perfectly honest with you.

But the bottom line is,my husband loves me and I love him.

1)I know that he is going thru some pain. What kind of pain? What should be going thru is mind right now?

The pain was the most physical pain I could ever imagine. My head hurt there was a constant buzzing in my ears. The weight of the world felt like it was resting on my shoulders. It was difficult to breathe and I would have panic attacks. My heart hurt so bad I wondered why it could go on beating sometimes I wish it would just stop so I wouldn’t have to focus on breathing through the pain.

I felt completely alone. Like I had lost my last friend in the world. I had nowhere to turn to. There was nobody I could confide in who would understand how immense my grief was when the affair was over. My husband tried but he how could he really relate, he would never have been that stupid.

I felt immense guilt knowing that I caused it. I caused hurt to somebody I loved and wondering how I could ever have let myself be so fooled into believing something so morally bad was okay because I was “special.” I was so stupid. How could I have ever believed somebody who would lie to their own mate wasn’t lying to me when he told me how wonderful I was, how much he loved me, how this was different. Like somehow we were exempt from everything that was wrong or right because we were different in our love for one another (that’s just so gross). Basically I was a piece of tail and in the end I wasn’t even good enough for that too because when it was over he walked away and never looked back. I wondered how I could ever have been such an idiot to jeopardize myself, my spouse, and the lives of my two children to have an affair in the first place and then to grieve over it when it was over.

2) Is there anything I can do, say that would help?

My husband was just there. He didn’t push. He didn’t touch me. He knew I was hurting but didn’t try to fix it because he couldn’t. We took long drives, hours even days, where we wouldn’t talk. We don’t live anywhere near a beach, we live in Colorado and it was fall when all this happened. We would load the kids up in the car with a portable TV and drive through the mountains and look at the trees with their leaves changing. It was very peaceful and soothing and gave us time to heal. We worked on major projects around the house throwing ourselves physically into the work. All the talking stuff came later after the initial grieving peri

To JAKEB,
It really is no wonder to me that you have no friends; you spend all your time maintaining two deceptive lives, where would you find the time?
You're not telling me anything I don't know...

You seem to know the course you need to take, but you also seem to be blaming your husband for not coming to your "rescue" from what started as something you wanted, but now wish to end.
Yes, I have been reading and know the course I should take. I am not blaming my husband - I am simply stating my FEELINGS. As sad as it sounds, I do more to "save" our relationship than he does. I'm the one reading Marriage Builders and all the books. He didn't "Find out" about the As...I told him. And I tried to end it on my own...but as you know, sometimes there needs to be pressure to make them end. HOWEVER, with that said, I DO KNOW that it is my responsibility and MY fault. I was simply pointing out that when Plan A doesn't work, Plan B probably will.

And in the end, isn't it your responsibility to do the right thing and end the affair, whether he fights for you are not? Are you abdicating your moral responsibility to your husband?
Yes, it is my responsibility. I was trying to give the mindset of the WS.

Jaref,

I wrote out about a page and a half, and realized that it wouldn't do any good, and would only be the rantings and ravings of a betrayed spouse. In the end, as you have stated, you know where all the pieces lie.

I genuinely feel sympathy for you that your husband doesn't appear to want to fight for you. I know that had I found out while my W's affair was going on, or soon after, there is a high probability I would have spent some time in jail after visiting the OM...

It makes me wonder, given you assessment of the state of your M, that maybe Plan B might work. At the very least, if he doesn't wake up from his apathy, you'll be one step closer to freedom...

The only thing I wonder about is how can a wayward spouse truly be Plan A'ing if he/she is still in the affair? This doesn't add up to me.

Or do I have the completely wrong take, and you are NOT refering to yourself as the person doing Plan A and considering Plan B..

In any case, I wish you luck with whatever you come up with.

Jake.