Hi Cerri, I've seen other's post to you and thought I would give it a try. I think you are just what the Dr. ordered at this stage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I know your very busy. But if you find the time for me I would appreciate it. Thanks.

Seems I’ve caused some problems….But not enough

Yesterday I was kind of leaning towards plan B. But I kind of feel like time w/ h yesterday was productive and could have turned a new leaf. I was even feeling better when I found out that ow called h up until late, to no prevail Tuesday night. Than to put the icing on the cake h was home last night and apparently towards the end of his 4 straight days w/ me and no contact w/ ow – she called mil and left msg. that she didn’t know where my h was and that he needed to call her and come get his things or she was going to set them outside. So I have managed to get her upset or at least a little in secure. Immediately, I thought no, not plan B. Not yet. If I can continue w/ my plan to plant the wedge and tightend the gap (details in following link) http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=017222

Ow is going to continue to get insecure making things difficult on h to even spend time with children w/o hearing her mouth. It is hard. It’s like dying every morning. After no sleep. But I think I can hang in there a little longer. If I can get him to help me w/ the kids I can go on. OW picked h up late last night. I have 3 questions

1. Should I ask him, (since I never have, but I’m sure he already knows what I want) to end this affair and all contact with ow.
2. Doesn’t making her act out play in my favor – He’ll either get tired of her or get tired of the problem I’m causing leading him home or me in plan B for sure.
3. Should I continue Plan A.

Any suggestions would be gladly appreciated. I have attached below links to the some recent post.

Here’s some history and link to two of my most recent post for background.

Separated once jan 2002 returned 5 mths later
I have spent the last year basically self educating trying to get through to h to communicate and work on m. He would sware to God that he tried and it was all my fault I would beg to differ, but this time because he didn't want to work on it. I thought some space would do the trick. boy did it. that was a little over 3 months ago. I know one time he loved me crazy. Just told me a couple of weeks ago he's biggest problem was control but he left me and gave me know choice but to be in charge of the controling things perfect example Bill paying.
-------------------
For-real

Posts: 200 | Registered: Jan 2002 | IP: Logged |

MYB
Member
Member # 15668 posted July 31, 2003 03:11 PM

I probably should add that H really never came back 5 mths later. He brought his body, but something else had taking over and although I still felt and saw hints of his love he was determined that he would not be controlled so he "rebelled" all the time and when there was nothing to rebell about he rebelled anyway. I know he loves or that he loved me more than any words could say. But he feels like I stuck him in the heart with a rusted knife or worst. It's not all his fault he just has a pain, that he never took the time to learn how to deal with. And I take responsibility for some of that pain.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=017241

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=017300

<small>[ August 07, 2003, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: MYB ]</small>

Hard call. If you can be respectful, I think telling him that having the affair hurts you is fine. Even saying you’d be happy if he ended it would be fine, as far as I can tell. I wouldn’t make any demands until it’s really time for Plan B. If you’re ready, write out the letter. Ask him to end it and write the No Contact letter. If he doesn’t, move to Plan B. But only when you’re ready.

Meantime, just keep up the awesome work. OW is really getting annoying. Seems some of the luster goes off a mistress once she starts acting like a wife. Probably works same way with OM once they start belching, only talking about sports, and short change the warm up to SF.

MYB, have you read my Plan A rants? I think the last 3 or 4 pages of my thread have some there.

I need to get caught up on some things today, and hopefully will have more time tomorrow. (but don't hold your breath or you might end up this color <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> LOL)

I would also send you to my site www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com and have you read the April NL... it's on the Articles and eNewsletters page.

Then talk to me more about what you've done in Plan A.

And yes.... you need to tell him how you feel about the A and ask him to end it. That's what Plan A is... a negotiating strategy to end an affiar.

Also.... who else have you told?

Have you been reading Lulu's thread here? That woman is amazing. She has done all the right things in the face of terrible anger from her husband and in spite of her own fear and uncertainty. And she's done them with swift precision.

We don't know that by taking steps to end an affair that we can save the marriage. But what we do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no hope for your marriage as long as the affair continues and the longer is lasts the more that hope slips away.

Your first goal must always always always be to end the affair.

Now go read... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> And bump this again if I get lost in the Bog of Never Ending Work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

C

Thanks gg, sounds like you think I should keep upseting ow. I guess I'll try. H is very, very resistant. Seems that he does not want me to be an interference in his relationship. Perhaps he doesn't want the hassle of having to deal w/ two women. 1st it seemed he didn't want to see me because he hated me, now it seems he dosen't want to see me, either because he can't tell me he doesn't want to be bothered or because it just complicates the situation for him. I don't hear any hate. I guess that feels better. 3 weeks ago - the hate was so thick. I don't know if there is an interpretation for his lying, but with ow threatening to put his stuff out and with her picking him up late last night, why oh why would he tell me he slept at a friends house. He is adament about not keeping the children at my house. effort to keep her happy, I'm sure. But considering, according to him he doesn't know where he is sleeping tonight, seems like my house is the only house to keep C.

Thanks so much, Cerri. I'll bump this up tomorrow. As for now, I'mma reading <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Then talk to me more about what you've done in Plan A.

In Plan A, I've just been showing him a different me I showed him the most amazing anniversary ever, he didn't contact ow for days. I don't nag him at all about ow or anything. We are communicating so much better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I never say anything about m. I'm letting him have his cake and eat it to, while at the same time letting him know that this A is painful. He seems to get sucked into the plan A than retreat back to her safety, as he had been in withdrawal for the longest time. Anniversary night he was so touched and angry at the same time, because I had never done anything like that b4.

Also.... who else have you told?

All family and friends pretty much. Can't find anyone else to tell. My oldest son is not quite 4.

Have you been reading Lulu's thread here?
will check her out.

Your first goal must always always always be to end the affair.

How do I end this affair <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> It has already gone on strong for atleast a good 3-5 mths. I've got to do something.

Maybe he's more concerend about losing her. It's almost like he's trying to cut off contact w/ me so he can go forward w/ her. Is that natural. Also, this is really interesting. H treats his sis like trash always. The night after after he called in cursed mom, he went into house and apologized to sis for the way he had been treating her - she called and asked me what is wrong with him. Sounds to me that he is on an emotional roller coaster. He's cursed me, he's cursed his sis. Mil and Ow stood behind him (his little army) that he cursed MIL, Guess who's next...I hope so.

If you haven't already, and you find time check out the links above. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Thanks, Cerri

<small>[ August 07, 2003, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: MYB ]</small>

He’s sticking to his story that he is not having an affair and only slept w/ her once. He said God had already forgiving him and that he didn’t want my forgiveness. He asked me why I don’t go find someone to make me happy. He said for the first time in his life he was happy and people noticed it. I asked him if not an affair what do you call it. He said a good friend that has been there for him, conversation….He said she loves kids she would never hurt the children. About her statement, sometimes people say things they don’t mean. I am starting to feel like a plan B. But I feel that way every time I have to deal with him talking about her. I told him that she is counter productive and that as long as he continued his affair we could never have anything peaceful. Not even a peaceful divorce. He said that he was going to consider that. He said divorce 2-3-4 times during our 45 minute conversation. He wants to do it. I said she’s been there for you for 6 mths, how long have I been there for you. He said never.

He said the anniversary was like a dream come true and a nightmare all at once.

He said to make me happy he would end it with ow he said he wouldn’t see her anymore I said no all contact. He said he would only talk to her, and I said no all contact. He said He’d probably see her but not as much. I said no all contact. He said if it makes me happy. I know that he is lying because he also lied about being w/ her last night.

Does it sound like I can end this.

No one can end an A but the people in it (and they both have to get there). But you can do what you can do, which right now is show him what a GREAT M would look like on your end. Try your darndest to make up for the lack of ENs you have not been giving over the years. And curbing the LBs (nagging, disrespect). Don't make what happened on your anniversary a one time event...make each day seem like your anniversary. Sweeten your voice and your attitude.

But what is your plan after that? How long can you do this for? How are you going to keep from giving up? Do you have a deadline, a drop date, in your mind, or one you can tell him? Have you thought of what Plan B will be like? A Plan B may be necessary, but not the end.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StillHereMakingIt:
<strong>No one can end an A but the people in it (and they both have to get there). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, a huge part of Willard Harley's stance, concepts and methodologies say quite the opposite. That you, the BS, can do quite a bit to put an end to a spouse's infidelity. That's what makes his approach so different than others.... and so successful I might add.

C

I wish I felt that stronger, that the BS has more influence in the situation. I felt so powerless. As though I could follow the Harley principles, ask for what I wanted, then had to sit back and wait for others (WH) to make the decisions. It was a hard place to be. Perhaps I did have more influence in the situation than I thought, because it's all turned around now and I am enjoying a M I never thought possible.

Bad Just Got Worst

We had a bad, bad lunch meeting. He gave me what he said he would for cs. He was very nasty and standoffish from the beginning. For What? I have been nothing but nice. I could feel my blood boiling. But I tried, and I tried and I tried and I just couldn't take it. I asked if he had any attention on ending his affair and he said yes, I asked if when he ended he would be interested in any Counselling. He said what kind of counselling. I said counselling for everything. He said affair or no affair I want a Divorce. I was fine with that - I let him exit the car w/ out another word. Than I called from cell phone to advice him I had intended on attending a fam reunion that I attend every year which happens to be ow fam reunion....Big family. I've never seen her there. And asked if he'd planned on going. He seemed not to know anything about it. He was nasty. I thanked him for paying cs on time and he said yeah next time I won't be giving it to you. I said who will and he said it will come through the courts and I said well good, if they have they're paperwork together. (because they haven't) Than I said why we're on the subject would you like to negotiate with me an increase in cs. He said increase you want more money....way to piss him off. He said well I'm already giving you xxxamount. according to csenforcement I can get 300.00 more and I'd rather be getting it for my children than having him blow it up in the air on ow or whatever. I told him that I would be pursuing the maximum amount available and the only reason I had not done it was because I thought it was temporary and that we would try to get our stuff together. I told him that the money he is giving is making it difficult for me to do the things I need to do for the children. He said I don't think your going to get it. And if you do it's going to be very ugly for the next 18 years. I told him it was unfair to threaten me because I am pursuing my legal right as a mother. further more, he pissed me off because he wants to take c to some new place, I do no the people, but they have moved since and they didn't used to keep clean house, and I asked if I could check out environment and he said no. So there goes my weekend. There goes the LB - We've all been waiting for and at this point....I don't really think I care. It was me that asked him to leave and it was me that (before asking him) faked prepared myself for this to be the end, because he wouldn't go to counseling when he was there, and everything that he has ever gotten in life came because I filled out the application or turned over the note....so I figured...I should have known. I did know. He only takes what's handed to him and he only does what's easy. Now what. Because if he want's to fix it...sure no problem.. But other than that I cry out and get it over with

It certainly SEEMS like the time is fast approaching for you to implement Plan B. If you stay too long in Plan A your love bank will come very close to closing and then you may not have enough love left to either weather the difficult initial phases of marital recovery OR have the desire to want to save the marriage. Just because your WH's A ends doesn't mean that your marriage is out of the woods because many times recovery can be more difficult to endure and survive than an ongoing A. So start preparing yourself to implement Plan B before it's too late.

Here's my plan B letter

I know you don’t like reading letters with that in mind I will keep this short. I want to tell you first. That as bad as I am hurting, I am using all of my strength not to try and hurt anyone else, yourself included. I am going to give you some time to think about negotiating in increase in child support with me. I know you think I won’t get it, and maybe I won’t get the full guideline amount, but I’m confident that I have a good chance of walking out with more. I am trying to communicate with you and even through our separation have us make effective decisions for the children. That’s why I asked you to negotiate. I am sorry, that I got upset by your seemingly desire to want to rush off to court. Neither of us have the time to be running in and out of court fighting over something that involves our children, something that eventually we are going to have to lean how to handle as a team without any outside interference.

I want you to know that I took my commitment to you more serious than anything in life. I fought 2 be with you and I know there where times when you fought to be with me to. The odds where against us, But when I said you where my king I meant it. When I said I love you in all times, good times, bad times, sickness and in health, I meant it. I made a vow to you before God, Forsaken all others and I intent to hold that vow down. Although I realize that I had heart and emotional issues that hurt you terribly. You had similar issues that contributed to the state of are union. Realize, this is a union, God said that we where to be one. That your pain was my pain and my pain was yours. I realize that instead of giving you a whole woman, I gave you one that was broken and scared, don’t be afraid to admit that you where in pieces too. And please don’t let yourself forget that through the all times…Although I may not have done exactly what you would have had me do, I never walked away. And if we where not together, remember one call and I was there. Ask yourself “if you did everything you could to make us, to heal us, to save us and to make every night like July 31st 2003- By far the most beautiful night of my life. When I look back at everything special in my life, I can see your hand in mine. I believe if you look back and search the special times and the special things you have in your life you will find that I am directly connected. Through God all things are possible. Remember that when making our vows we committed to forsake all others from your mother to mine, no one person was excluded. God’s word does not permit either husband or wife to fall prey to the lust, fantasy or even good conversation of an emotional or physical affair. It is an abomination and has the potential to destroy all love and everything beautiful and healthy in our family. Because of this I am cutting off all contact with you. When you have ended your affair I would love to talk to you about our future, whatever it may hold. I will designate someone (likely my mother) to call and discuss Visitation and CS with you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MYB:
Here's my plan B letter

I know you don’t like reading letters with that in mind I will keep this short. I want to tell you first. That as bad as I am hurting, I am using all of my strength not to try and hurt anyone else, yourself included. I am going to give you some time to think about negotiating in increase in child support with me. I know you think I won’t get it, and maybe I won’t get the full guideline amount, but I’m confident that I have a good chance of walking out with more. I am trying to communicate with you and even through our separation have us make effective decisions for the children. That’s why I asked you to negotiate. I am sorry, that I got upset by your seemingly desire to want to rush off to court. Neither of us have the time to be running in and out of court fighting over something that involves our children, something that eventually we are going to have to lean how to handle as a team without any outside interference.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A Plan B letter has nothing to do with child support issues. So please reconsider omitting this part of your Plan B letter.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want you to know that I took my commitment to you more serious than anything in life. I fought 2 be with you and I know there where times when you fought to be with me to. The odds where against us, But when I said you where my king I meant it. When I said I love you in all times, good times, bad times, sickness and in health, I meant it. I made a vow to you before God, Forsaken all others and I intent to hold that vow down. Although I realize that I had heart and emotional issues that hurt you terribly. You had similar issues that contributed to the state of are union. Realize, this is a union, God said that we where to be one. That your pain was my pain and my pain was yours. I realize that instead of giving you a whole woman, I gave you one that was broken and scared, don’t be afraid to admit that you where in pieces too. And please don’t let yourself forget that through the all times…Although I may not have done exactly what you would have had me do, I never walked away. And if we where not together, remember one call and I was there. Ask yourself “if you did everything you could to make us, to heal us, to save us and to make every night like July 31st 2003- By far the most beautiful night of my life. When I look back at everything special in my life, I can see your hand in mine. I believe if you look back and search the special times and the special things you have in your life you will find that I am directly connected. Through God all things are possible. Remember that when making our vows we committed to forsake all others from your mother to mine, no one person was excluded. God’s word does not permit either husband or wife to fall prey to the lust, fantasy or even good conversation of an emotional or physical affair. It is an abomination and has the potential to destroy all love and everything beautiful and healthy in our family. Because of this I am cutting off all contact with you. When you have ended your affair I would love to talk to you about our future, whatever it may hold. I will designate someone (likely my mother) to call and discuss Visitation and CS with you.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This looks good but I would recommend that you wait until Cerri gives you the thumb's up.