Jaref I hope that you don't stop posting because of one member's post acerbic post against you. There are far many more people who are willing to offer you support for your efforts to end your A and give you constructive advice. Please consider coming back.

JareF

Please keep posting. In takes both sides to creat a problem, it also takes both sides to solve it.

You have some insight that I a BS doesn't have. I can feel your pain about your continuing A. I know that you need help and that your H isn't helping but in denile. I've read that you are a Christian, so is my W and I. God was with her when she was in the A, he was with us both. She just wouldn't listen, and in truth I wasn't either. You are very special, and I know that God is working with you. You might need to use simple english with you H, Turn off the TV, look him square in the eye and tell him to help you, you can't do it alone. You need him to help. Tell him about this MB, do what it takes. Write your own NC letter show it to him, then send it and follow it.

I hope your M can survive this, we all need hope.

We will be praying for you and your husband. (My W is Poe, she posts in In Recovery.
We are just starting out in our journey to Recovery, I look forward to hearing about your start.

God Bless you

Hi jaref you replied to my thread and I thank you for that. Before coming in to read yours, i never would have thought you were going through so much pain. I think you just want your husband to want you , love you, etc. You say he is the best person, and that he never gets angry. Does the om know that you want your marriage to work, or do you tell him otherwise. Please talk to your husband let him know how much you need him to help you get through this. If he is a loving person, and wants his marriage to work he will help you. Take one step at a time jar, and walk away from the om. You are commited to your husband for better for worse. The worse put it past you. Help your husband to help you. (Talk to him) My prayers are with you Hurtin.

I apologize for the harshness, but to hear someone roll in here and state they are the WW and are still seeing the OP.....HURTS alot of the betrayed. I really hope you understand this......without my insults. Have a good one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Also, how can you say Im recovering when you are still seeing the OM???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ August 14, 2003, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: StartinOver ]</small>

Jaref,

Please stay. You posted on my thread a while ago, and I was hoping to see you around.

I echo the thoughts of those who want to help you get the strenght to end your A, and to tell your H, and work on your M.

Your H may be afraid if he confronts you that you will leave.

I once read that when a WS tells the BS (I don't think I read this from Harley's, I don't remember where I read it), that if a WS tells the BS about the A, and they are telling them and want to stay married, that either the A is over, or they need support from the BS in ending the A. Maybe your H is thinking that. He might be waiting for you to tell. If he suspects, and wants the M to work, he might be hesitant to confront.

Thank you all so much. I had no intentions of leaving completely - just meant I wouldn't post on others threads if yal didn't want me to.

I do not have much time right now to respond right now cuz I'm at work, but I did read everyone's post...thanks again.

SO...I do understand what you were saying - you're saying that if I love him like I say, how can I do this?! right? Well, if an alcoholic loves his/her spouse so much, why do they drink? And if people love thier children so much, why do they molest them? We are human, trapped in our own MINDS sometimes. No excuses here...I am at fault. I chose to have the A. I choose to continue the A, even when I want to stop. SOme days I feel helpless and out of control in this area...scary. But that is why I am here...I'm here because I BELIEVE in what Dr. Harely says. I have read SAA, and His Needs, Her Needs, and Fall in Love, Stay in Love, etc. I am trying to help myself by making contact with like-minded people who will help me pull out of this fog. ANd I am seeking counsel.

And I am so sorry for your hurt. I am sure your WS NEVER intended to hurt you...it probably started as a way to fix a problem and feel whole. And it does serve it's purpose for a short while...til you realize your in deep and drowning. It's an awful thing.

Thank you all for the developing civility.

OneGoing.

JareF

I don't think you should stop trying to help others. Don't let the few nay sayers deture you. You do have a unique perspective to add. You know the pain people are going through. Plus in the effort to help others you might just help yourself.

You will find your way home.

{{{{{{{JareF}}}}}}}

<small>[ August 14, 2003, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: Silverthorn ]</small>

Jaref this places is for BOTH BS and WS alike. BOTH are suffering from the pain of the A(affair). BOTH want to do what is right. And you belong here just as much as any one of us here. Never forget that.

Jaref,

Please stay and post. It is apparant to me,that you are seeking help. Coming here was a GREAT first step. Know that we will support you as you learn.

Best to you!

Hi JareF,

Because I am not in your shoes, I don't completely know what it is like or how hard it is to break from OM. Have you considered trying to plan project, dates, with H and family. Keeping yourself busy with the family that there is not time for OM.

I dont' remember, does OM work with you? How do you know him?

What can you do to put distance between you and him? Would this help?

I agree, contact Cerri, she is great. I have communicated with her once in a while, and she is wonderful, with a great outlook.

Dear Sue,
I know the OM from a hobby. I do not do that hobby anymore even though he does. However, the first time I told my husband about the A, he sort of wanted me to quit, but I told him I really loved the hobby and didn't want to quit, so he didn't make me. Of course, I see now that it wasn't the hobby I didn't want to give up, but the OM. Don't think I knew that for sure back then.

Sue, although I have confessed my A to you all, I have not confessed the extent of the A. It is much deeper than anything I have read on this post. You all have been kind, but firm with me and that is what I need. I am very scared to share the full details because it is just so...I can't even think of the word to use. All I can say is that you all would be horrified.

My problem is that I am a liar. Simply put. It started when I was a kid with my parents. You know how parents always say it is better to tell the truth than a lie cuz the punishment is worst? Well, that just wasn't true with my parents, so I learned to lie and used it til the day I left home when I was 19.

At that time I got married and I didn't need to lie anymore - I told my husband everything. And for 10 years I wasn't a liar anymore. But then I became unhappy with my M and I told my husband this. I told him that if he wasn't going to have a life with me and be open with me, that I was going to have to make my own life. When I said that, I wasn't referring to an A. I was only meaning that I was going to find my own interests - up until that time I made his interests mine. He wasn't interested in sex and that was very important to me, too.

So I went and got a hobby and sort of did my own thing...and the next thing I knew I was having an A. The truth was that it made me feel empowered for the first time. I had this OM that was interested in me and I wouldn't let him have me. I teased him which only enticed him more. Then I fell in love with him.

Anyway, that's how it started...

So anyway, figuring out that I was a liar came from two years of counseling that I had the first couple of years of the A. I knew I was a liar, but I didn't see that being a liar was the problem in this situation. I do see it now.

I do promise that I will confess the extent of my A to you all very soon - I just can't deal with it now. I can't handle the rejection right now, and I am not ready to be screamed at at this time. And believe me, yal will scream. I just want to talk to yal right now and get to know you. I already love you all so much and feel so much for all of you.

Hi Jaref

Thanx for posting on my thread. Knowing my situation and the crazy things I did, you may not think I can be of much help. Well, I thought I was a VERY level headed person with a sane outlook on live. Seems sudden deep crises can make one totally loose one's sanity because of fear of the unknown feature - and the doom and gloom that one sees. That's what happened to me. Thanks to MB website I am starting to get perspective, at least I hope so!

The fact that you are also posting here tells me that you have begun taking steps correct your M again. Seems to me as if you have already read a lot about relationships and saving one's M too.

How to break an A and restore one's relationship with one's spouce? My thoughts are: I don't know if you have ever experienced the horror of a divorce process. It is a long drawn out nightmare like an amputation without anaesthetics. And when the amputation has been completed, you are crippled in some way for live. At the moment it seems as if you are in a situation in which I have been for a month or two, wanting to break with the Other Person, but then it becomes too painfull. You are already established in a web of lies and it came to sit on you, albeit uneasily. What is needed is a deathly dose of reality, as somebody pointed out in order to get you out of your fantasy world with the OM. Or, is there any possibility that your husband can get a transfer? That will place the OM out of reach. Again, divorce is a sad, bad, sorry story that I don't wish upon my worst enemies. You must face the fact that somehow, your husband may just do that to you if you don't stop your A. For sure you are playing with fire, just like I did when I entertained other thoughts behind my GF's back. I have burnt my fingers badly. Only a mirracle can save my relationship now. You are risking the very same thing.

Hi JareF,

We may or may not be horrified by the truth. I know I was raised in a household where telling the truth was the best policy. Let see, if we lied and got caught, the punishment was double of what it would be if we told the truth about a bad deed. It was usually grounding, or something like that, maybe bathroom duty for a week. Yuck.

I don't know what caused you to have such aversions in your youth to telling the truth. I know my H, has issues with honesty. Mostly because of his mom. Both my H and his brother. To this day, neither one of them can be honest with her about anything. They hide the truth from about everything. My H was recently diagnosed as a diabetic, he does not want his mom to know. She has this way of trying to make people feel inferior if they don't meet her expectations. Of course, it does not work with me, I wonder what planet she is from.

Most of us have read or heard alot here, so I'm thinking what you have to say may not be as shocking as you think. When you are ready.

But the longer you wait to end it with OW, the harder it will be for your H in recovery, and you.

Take care

Jaref,

You might as well post your story. You might be surprised at what people here have seen, heard, and experienced. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> So I am not so sure you can really drive everyone away.

I would like to repond to some comments you made very early in this thread. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I wish he would be strong and help me (on his own). But I fear the only way to get his help is to tell him about the A again and at the same time show him Surviving an Affair and tell him he needs to read this and apply the things in the book if we are ever gonna have a fighting chance.

Yea, it seems the only place my husband isn't weak is that he hasn't had an A.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want to discuss the comments I put in bold from your quote. You seem fixated on your H being weak. When in fact, it seems to me he is the opposite. He has stood by you through your admitting to having an A TWICE. You say he is a kind and gentle man, and apparently you think that is weakness. I am here to tell you it takes alot more strength to FORGIVE than it does to rant, rave, and throw a tantrum before walking off. You may feel you would respect him more if he snooped, was very angry with you, or what ever, but you ARE WRONG.

What he has done is forgive you and trust you, Lady that takes strength. I think you are transfering your lack of strength to him. If he were so weak and spinless you wouldn't be worried about telling him about the A and forcing him to either divorce you or work on it. But, the reality is if you tell him YOU have to work on it or leave. You are the one that hasn't got a spine, and you need one really bad.

You know the saddest part of this? It is that you would be much happier IF you got rid of the OM and you know it. Now you know why the Harley's won't do marriage counseling with someone in an affair, OR someone with substance abuse issues. It doesn't work. There is no logic, no words, nothing that can reach you, UNTIL you are ready to make the change.

No matter what you H did or didn't do, he isn't as good as the Harley's and they cannot reach you. He has two choices endure, or leave. He has choosen to endure.

Jaref, you are going to have a "coming to Jesus" meeting with yourself. It is you and only you that can do this and it has NOTHING to do with your H and his strengths or weaknesses. I think you know this but you won't admit it to yourself.

It is only YOU that can break this off. IT is only YOU that can deal with the withdrawal. It is only you that can make a choice as to who is going to be with you in your life. It is only YOU that will choose how your life works out, and who if any stands over your grave in the end counts their blessing for having known you.

IT IS YOU who is leading your life, not your H, not your OM. It is YOU that has to make the decision to end it.

I wish I could offer you a simple, straightforward, and painless way to handle this. I wish I could reach out and take your H's pain away. I wish you had never had the A and had a great marriage. But, I can do none of those things, only YOU can do them.

God Bless,

JL

Just Learning,
I am sorry...I did not mean to indicate that my husband is weak. I don't think that at all. I think I just wish he would have taken some sort of steps to help me. Yes, it is not responsibility...but I envy these people who have "Plan A'd" and "Plan B'd" their spouse.

I guess what I am saying is that I am the WS and I am the one at MarriageBuilders website - not him. His idea was to forgive me and move on. Mine was to start looking for help.

I guess I idealize too much. I am grateful that he forgave me before, and I pray that he will do it again...soon. I am going to tell him soon.

JareF

Share any part of your story when you can. It will help to tell others. I know you are in pain. Poe and I will continue to pray for you. As I am sure many other on the MB.

Again you will find your way home. Have faith, and believe.

It seems to me that your husband loves you very very much and wishes what is best for you. He wants to move on and support you everytime you have confessed because he does not want to be mean to you and wishes to lessen your pain. It makes me angry that you see this as some sort of weakness about him. All right now for some tough love. Many men would have kicked you out after the first and second time but not your husband.
How do you appreciate this kindness from him?
You go back and continue the affair with the OM that probably deals by your implication with a host of sexual activities. It sounds like your OM uses you and you use him and the man who truly loves you and forgives you time and again is left out in the cold. What is that old saying: There is nobody so blind as someone who refuses to see.
Wake up for gosh sakes before you lose everything you have. You don't treat a husband who loves you the way you have been treating him. Why can't you just sit down with your husband and show him these messages you have written and show you love toward him. Maybe instead of waiting for him to react you should be the one is more proactive.

All right my tough love speech is over but you previously stated that you would be devastated if your husband had done to you what you continue to do him. He does not do these things to you because he loves and respects you. Can you say the same about yourself? Tell him the truth and show him the love and respect he deserves or do him a favor and let him go. Imagine him marrying someone else down the line. How would you feel about that? The bottom line is that you cannot love and respect your husband until you love and respect yourself and you can't do that while you continue your present behavior. Everybody here is hoping and praying for you to succeed but we can't help you until you are willing to help yourself. I do wish you well.

I'm sorry...again, I did not mean to indicate that I view my husband as weak - actually, quite the contrary. I think I just wish he would fight for me. And I know you all view the fact that he has forgiven me twice as strong...and it is...

...I think I idealize too much.

Anyway, I do think my husband is strong, and as I have said before a wonderful man. Fine and noble.

Enough on that...this site wears me out! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I dreamed about it the last two nights - guess cuz of all the posting. You guys are haunting me - in a good way.

Jaref unless the 'horrible' things you mention have anything to do with childhood murder, mutilations, pornography and prostitution, or other unspeakable abominations, chances are that your 'horrible' acts are not going to even register on the MB Richter scale. Odds are that my ex-WW with her multiple affairs with multiple partners is going to make you look like Mother Theresa. So rest assured that you are dealing with a relatively worldly bunch of folks that have been witnesses to some mighty strange behavior from their spouses and former spouses in the past. You ain't dealin' with no Amish folk here my dear.