I never thought I would be visiting a bulletin board like this, but here goes. I found out about two months ago that my wife had a two-year long affair that ended last year. It sounds like it was the “soul mate” affair Dr. Harley describes in his book, Surviving an Affair (yes, I have already read it). That aspect of it has been VERY tough on me. I understand what happened intellectually, but not in my heart.

Basically, the affair was with a co-worker. W and OM worked on a couple of project teams together. She says they had a “strong emotional and physical relationship”. I feel lucky because W had to do very little to hide the affair. There were not a whole lot of lies, just a lot of things left unsaid.

During the affair, Wife got pregnant by the OM. The affair ended a couple of months after W returned to work from her maternity leave because the OM’s spouse found out and the affair was brought to light at work.

My “D-day” was just before Memorial Day. Wife said she had to tell me because of the guilt. She didn’t feel that she could continue our marriage with such a big secret. I think I took the news pretty well - we're still together!

Since D-day, we have had several additional conversations on the details of what happened. Up until recently, I never felt like I was being told everything I wanted to know, and I wanted to know all of the details. I now feel like I have a pretty good picture of the what, where, when, how. I still am not sure whether she has told me everything I would want to know. Wife did a good job in early conversations only answering the questions I asked (she would have made a good lawyer!). It would take me a day or two of thinking to understand what pieces of the puzzle I was missing, so I would ask again.

From her perspective, our marriage is starting to heal. She likes that I tell her how I feel and what’s going on inside of me. I have been telling her EVERYTHING. That is something that I have not done in the past. She was also impressed that I researched, found, and read a good book on surviving affairs in addition to internet research (the MB site). She feels that I am committed to making our marriage work by meeting her emotional needs. She says she’s “almost there” in terms of falling completely in love with me again. When I ask, she says there is nothing else I can do to get her there. I think time is the answer here.

From my perspective, I do not feel that she is doing a very good job of telling me how she is feeling and what is going on inside of her. I can tell when she is feeling down and when I ask, she says she is fine. I don’t think she wants to share her feelings with me because they might be hurtful. I think she might not be over OM yet. How can I get her to come out of her shell? Why won’t she share her feelings with me? I am truly in love with her, but this is something that is really bothering me.

My fear is that she will never see our relationship as being as good as what she had in the A simply because of the bubble in which the A occurred. We started talking about that last night and when I put the issue on the table, her response was that there were some things we were both going to have to get over and that we needed to look to the future. What kind of answer is that? We never finished the conversation because I said some things I should not have that ended the conversation.

My final thought that I would really like comments on is whether you guys (and gals) believe that love is truly the emotion felt in an affair. I am having a real problem with that, given that my wife had a “soul mate” affair. I cannot see how it was love. It might of looked and felt like love, but how could it have been? The A devastated four people. Dr. Harley says in his book that an affair is the most “selfish and thoughtless” thing a person could do to their spouse. Doing something you know is selfish and thoughtless is the antithesis of love.

<small>[ August 27, 2003, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: joltedGene ]</small>

Doing something you know is selfish and thoughtless is the antithesis of love.

Yea...but when it FEELS like love, it is love at that moment. It may not be the kind of love God talks about in the Bible (Agape love - love that seeks the higher good for the other person), but it still FEELS like love. And if the A ended when she was still "feeling" love, then that is something that your wife has to work through.

Has she read SAA?

By the way, just so you know, I am in the midst of an A - but it has been a long A and I have had moments of clarity...so you can take whatever I say with a grain of salt. I just like to share the WS perspective.

I hope it all goes well. Sounds like it will if you can get your W to open up about everything she is going through. You know, you might just tell her that "sugarcoating" the truth and holding back because she is trying to protect you causes you to feel scared and insecure about your current relationship. Explain that you DO want it to work with her and that whatever "truth" she shares with you will only serve to heal your M faster. No sense in her telling you she had an A, then holding back on some things. Better to get it out all at once. Good luck.

Thanks for the reply. We did get a chance to talk this weekend and I did tell her how I felt about her not sharing her feelings with me. I think she understood.

She has not read SAA yet. I finished it last week and gave it to her to read. Hopefully, she will start soon.

<small>[ August 27, 2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: joltedGene ]</small>

I sorry but I am a little confused. Did you say that the birth of your son was from the OM? Is he financially responsible for your son? I hope I read this wrong.

Bryanp, no you read correctly. I did not find out about this until "my" child was well over a year old.

The OM apparently did not step up to the plate after the child was born. OM only saw the child a few times. Of course, OM and W were still hiding the A at the time, so it would have been difficult anyway. I don't think the OM really ever expected to be involved.

The OM has agreed to terminate his parental rights and I will be adopting. I don't want one red cent from the guy. He can keep his money. With financial responsibility comes visitation rights. That means I would have to see the piece of crap everytime he came by to pick child up. No way!

It has amazed me that the easiest part of this whole situation has been accepting the child as MINE. I can't see it being any other way.

<small>[ August 27, 2003, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: joltedGene ]</small>

You are a wonderful person. The fact that your wife kept this from you until the child was a year and a half old says a lot in many ways about her and the OM and the fact it took her over a year and a half to tell you about the paternity issue of your child. The OM showed his true colors. What you have done in accepting this child shows what a true man and outstanding person you are since most men would have divorced your wife and the family. Your wife is an extremely fortunate woman to have you as her husband. I hope she realizes how special you are and how very very lucky she is. I wish you happiness.

Love is well defined in I Corinthians 13. That has nothing to do with what affair partners experience. Feeling "in love", feeling in love, feeling the emotion of "being in love", being infatuated, obsessed - sure. Not the same thing. A major part of Harley's plan is to get you to feel "in love" with your spouse. Feeling "in love" with your spouse is great, but it is not "love" as defined in I Cor. 13.

A couple good sex books I can recommend: "Celebration of Sex" (Christian) and "Passionate Marriage" (secular). You can get to a place far better than what they had - but it will take work, and will probably take a few years. Those books (read them together) will help you along that path.

Bryanp, thanks for the comments. I feel that my wife and I are both fortunate that I handled the situation the way I did. Don't know if you caught it or not, but W told me about the A and child at the same time.

John, the hardest part about the whole A thing is understanding what drove the other person to do what they did. I can't believe it was the same love W felt for me when we first met. Love doesn't hide - it must be in the open to flourish.

<small>[ August 27, 2003, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: joltedGene ]</small>

I don't know about your wife but my wife has come to the realization that she wasn't in love with her affair partner but cared for him deeply as a friend and felt very sorry for him. She never has had an opposite sex friend without it turning sexual so of course it went the same direction as the other guys before we married. She still believes an awful lot of the BS he told her. Drives me crazy to think my wife could be such a sucker and believe his tale of woe and sadness with his wife. She didn't believe me when I told her I loved her but she believed everything he told her. I've known for almost 6 months but thinking about it right now still makes me want to cry. Maybe I should stay away from this board, lol. Good Luck!

I haven't gone in the sexual direction here since so many people seem to want to avoid that talk. Our sexual relationship has always been great but since I found out it has gone into another realm of incredible. The jealousy thing has always gotten me going. I could go further but I'd have to rate my post R, lol.

OK...I'm probably gonna get chewed out for posting here cuz I am the WS still in the A and trying to end it. But I find this whole part of the conversation (about love) very interesting. It is something I think about all the time. Just so you know, I have been in my A so long that it is past the "infatuation" phase, so I
do understand what John is talking about below. And I make no excuses for having my A - I shouldn't have done it...I shouldn't still be doing it. It is something I am working on.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Love is well defined in I Corinthians 13. That has nothing to do with what affair partners experience. Feeling "in love", feeling in love, feeling the emotion of "being in love", being infatuated, obsessed - sure. Not the same thing. A major part of Harley's plan is to get you to feel "in love" with your spouse. Feeling "in love" with your spouse is great, but it is not "love" as defined in I Cor. 13.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely true about what the Bible says about true love...I believe this with all my heart. HOWEVER, we married our spouses because we had the "feeling of being in love"...not because of the action verb "love". I mean, we did want the higher good for them, but the reason we married was for the feeling it gave us...I think the rest comes later as we grow.

If we married them for the higher good and because of what 1 Cor says, then we wouldn't have sex with them before we married them....and the majority of people DO have sex before they get married.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">John, the hardest part about the whole A thing is understanding what drove the other person to do what they did. I can't believe it was the same love W felt for me when we first met. Love doesn't hide - it must be in the open to flourish.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I only know that what drove me to the affair was feeling empty, trying to tell my H what I needed, and never getting a response. I mean, he would look at me and listen to me, then he'd say OK, but I don't think he really understood. I've come to the conclusion that most spouses don't understand until they get to the point that they are about to lose their spouse - then they at least try to understand.

It probably is the same love that you and your wife had - because it was a FEELING...but because YOUR love was allowed to flourish, it grew to be more like the love that John talks about above.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by johnh39:
<strong>Love is well defined in I Corinthians 13. That has nothing to do with what affair partners experience. Feeling "in love", feeling in love, feeling the emotion of "being in love", being infatuated, obsessed - sure. Not the same thing. A major part of Harley's plan is to get you to feel "in love" with your spouse. Feeling "in love" with your spouse is great, but it is not "love" as defined in I Cor. 13.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">John, that quote above is priceless. If you would review the thread on "Trying to Understand the Fog" and if you feel you should post that thought there, it might be helpful.

I got all "snarly" with my post there, basically because the JFO boards are the first place someone crawls to in deep pain. The comments that WS are indeed in "love" are acidic to the freshly wounded.

Could it be suggested that x-OW's that wish to debate the depths of "love" in various betrayals be moved to GQII and away from Triage?

I am new here and I might not be like everyone else but this discussion helps me as it hurts me because I need to know and understand the truth. My H has been in a 4 year relationship but he never once said to me, honey, my needs are not being met. I never once had the chance to meet his needs.

But I am an avid reader and until last week I read with wonder stories throughout the ages of betrayal, passion, lust and love.

I personally cannot get any comfort from telling myself that my husband feels something so much less for that woman, why stay in it for four years and share so damned much with her and not with me?

I certainly don't want to add salt to anyone's wound, and mine is gaping, open, and bleeding, but I need to wrap my mind around something like reality so I know how to proceed.

Jaref - if you open a thread on General I will follow you. Not now, but later. If any other OP or WS can explain this to me, I am listening, with a broken heart but with open ears.

I did read SAA but I need to hear it from the participants.

By the way, when I found out, the thought that would not stop crashing and burning through my head is that they have been involved longer than my husband's and my engagement. If he and I had based a decision to get married on a relationship that was shorter than this affair, how am I to tell myself that what he feels in this affair is nothing compared to the love he felt for me back then?

Yes, I am really reading all the books, but I'm sorry. Some things do not add up for me. I tell myself that if his affair had been shorter I could explain it all that way, but four years? While he knew her for six and had two years to decide he wanted to become physical???

Someone please give me the truth.

Maybe I need to take a break but right now my anger and rage are pouring out.

Why does Dr. Harley want the spouses to feel in love with each other at the same time that people here are saying that these feelings of being in love with OP are not important? Why should I try to get my husband to feel in love with me again at the same time I tell myself in some fantastic Catch-22 scenario that if he feels that way for OP it's not real?

If I am being inappropriate for this board tell me but I have had it. I am reeling, I am reading things that don't make sense, I'm hearing one thing from one side and other from the other side...

Will someone post the definition of Love from Corinthian so I get get a grip on the things people are saying?

Dammit - my husband is in love with another woman and he said he loves her. If his love for me is so much stronger, who the hell needs it? Who NEEDS a man who loves me but can go out and do this?

I'm about to collapse.

NS,

I posted something to Jaref here in JFO about this, but I will give you a short answer to your question.

Love is a verb, it is something you do. Jaref stated that she felt that first love is a feeling. Perhaps, but the love that brings or should bring someone to marriage is more.

What your H has for OW is definitely the "feeling" part of love. But, what love really is, is a combination of things.

It is: feelings, it is commitment, it is devotion. Those last two your H did NOT have with his OW. He may want them, that is for him to tell you this weekend, but you have parts of "feelings", some part of commitment, and a little of the devotion. I would guess that you have more than your H's OW has.

Don't confuse intimacy with love. Don't mistake "feelings" as all there is to love. Many do, as did Jaref and look where she is: in H**l.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL