Shortly: history (to understand what is happening):
My wife told me last year that she wanted a separation. I pleaded with her for about 4 weeks and basically got a bunch of lies and an absolutely irresolute desire to seperate. She then even contacted a friend of her whom she knew was secretly in love with me to visit me to get me off her back.

Well, in my desparation I found her attractive and immediately fell in love, on the rebound. We bought a house together and started living together. She turned out to be a very good mother for our children and I loved her. But due to problems to come to an agreement with my wife regarding costody and assets, the divorce began to drag. My girlfriend started to have tantrums and anger outbursts. I can fully understand her frustrations now. In the meantime I discovered that there might have been a chance to save my M, since my W started to plead with me from time to time to reconcile. I now know that she did it only when she felt insecure. In the process, I started to correspond with her via email, to really explore what went wrong and what the chances for reconcilliation might really be.

HERE IS THE PROBLEM: I came to love my GF and came to realise that my wife is not the type of person that I need to be married to: emotional psychological issues ecpecially. BUT, because my GF was already feeling insecure and have anger outbursts, I did not tell her about my contact with my wife. Now that I am 100% sure at last that my decision to separate is correct and my divorce has already been in court (case rejected because of too complicated custody and visitation issues) I told my GF the gist of what happened. Our relationship has already been strained the past couple of weeks because of her fears and insecurities. She slapped me in the face and haven't spoken a word to me all evening. She is totally ignoring me and I think she has made up her mind to leave as soon as she can make suitable arrangements.

I am at a stage now, after a year of having been to hell and back, that I don't even have the power to cry any more. I plan A'd her the past couple of weeks whenever she threatened to leave to the best of my abilities. Once or twice I could not handle it any more and I told her that I am sick and tired of her anger outbursts. But that was as far as I went. Last night, for the first time in a week, we kissed and made up. Tonight we were on our way to go ice skating. Then the issue with my wife came up and I spilled the beans to clear everything up.

You may ask yourself if I am for real! Yes I am. I made mistakes in my confusion and ignorance last year, but I have learned a tremendous amount since then. I would have done the whole thing just the other way round: but, then I most probably would have remained extremely vulnerable to my wife's emotional manipulation. I would have known nothing of her shocking series of EA's and PA's. It was my GF who told me about it and my W acknowledged it when I confronted her with the evidence.

What now? My GF has told me just this afternoon that once somebody crossed swords with her, they are enemies for live. Anny comments anybody. I am strugling to remain sane here. I struggled so much the past couple of weeks and months with my GF's concerns that even I just feel like giving up and accepting that if she is the kind of person who can't emotionally handle this kind of thing, it is better that I find it out now before a possible marriage than having to struggle with emotional outbursts later. Are there any sane girls in this world who are capable of seing the bigger picture and understand that I had to deal with my W and marital issues first? I can understand that her EN's must be met - the most serious one is security. But what about mine? How can I make her understand that this was a highly abnormal situation. I did not have an A with my W. I never had an A in my life. I don't have the need to have girls falling for me. I do have an overpowering need to establish a lasting, loving relationship with one girl whom I love and who loves me too. I think I found such a person. But now I think that by tomorrow she will be gone. The last time I tried to speak to her she slapped me in the face.

Comments, please. Just help me keep my sannity and perspective hear please.

This sure sound like a difficult situation. Your girlfriend is probably threatened with your communication with your Wife because it sounds to me like you jumped from one relationship into another very quickly. Would it make sense to you to try and take some time for yourself to figure out both relationships? The physical abuse (slapping your face) is disturbing. I'm a new member and not in any real position to offer skilled advice but I hope you look before you leap--

As I sat here in the kitchen with the laptop, reading and thinking, she came in, wordlessly made herself tea and went back to the bedroom again. Normally she would have asked me to make us each a cup of tea. She totally ignores me.

How can I get a conversation going before she leaves? I am afraid that is what she is going to do tomorrow morning. I would like her to see the bigger picture hear. The thread that might have been there to our relationship has already gone. What she is doing now is to make a self fulfilling prophecy come true by leaving because she is afraid I would leave her, precicely when I have put all my doubts to rest. I resolved not to D my W if I am not very shure that it is the right thing to do. I did make sure. I don't have any issues about that any more.

Please, help, anybody. It is hard, very hard: first a divorce, now a very close relationship also on its way out - actually finished I'd say by the looks of it.

Just help please.

Thank you S@S

Yea, I guess time will bring perspective. I got to study this weekend to and I fail to apply my mind to my studies due to all the turmoil.

I suspect my GF's anger outbursts occurred only because of her insecuries about which way the penny is going to drop for her - am I going to D my W or not. I for one would not get anger outbursts I think, I would perfectly understand any doubts she might have had if she was in my position and I would have given her time and space to consider it and sort herself out. Yes, the slap in the face is disturbing, the anger outbursts is also disturbing. I am a very tolerant person and did not even try to defend myself. Maybe, just maybe, this girl has shown me tonight that she is not worth fighting for anymore.

I sat here thinking the whole evening. Two things bothers me:
- Why did she just decide to ignore me and act as though she has already decide it's over. Wouldn't a reasonable person have understood why I did this and handle me with the understanding that I think I deserve? Is she an impulsive person then, who will from time-to-time employ anger outbursts against me. It really makes me afraid and I find that I really have to put in a tremendous amount of time to calm her down again.
- Why did she slap me in the face. It is the first time that she did it to me but from what she told me, she and her previous husband also had tremendous rows. Apparantly he threatened to warn me against her during their divorce process.

Maybe I need some time out and calm down myself. Maybe I need to really see how she is going to react to this situation tomorrow morning. Does anybody here thinks that I deserve better understanding from her, less LB's from her. It feels as if I am the only one who has to carry the burden of meeting her needs. I really was as supportive and understanding as possible the past couple of weeks. Now I have to endure physical violence also. How should I react to physical violence? Anybody with comments on this?

I never had an A in my life.
And yet your married with kids and you are living with your gf & bought a house with her? If THAT'S not an affair, nothing is an affair.

Dump the girlfriend, get on your hands and knees, apologize to your wife and do everyhthing possible to repair your marriage.

<small>[ August 15, 2003, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bobcat:

"Maybe I need some time out and calm down myself. Maybe I need to really see how she is going to react to this situation tomorrow morning. Does anybody here thinks that I deserve better understanding from her, less LB's from her. It feels as if I am the only one who has to carry the burden of meeting her needs. I really was as supportive and understanding as possible the past couple of weeks. Now I have to endure physical violence also. How should I react to physical violence? Anybody with comments on this?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bobcat this demonstration of physical violence by your GF is NOT a good thing. If you allow this relationship to continue without her willing to resolve this serious issue, then you are setting yourself up for more violence from her in the future. Your children may even become witnesses to her attacks against you. Therefore my advice to you is that you separate for good from this woman if she is not willing to take an anger management class. Frankly you shouldn't have allowed this relationship in the first place because you were a married man that had to resolve his feelings for his stbx-WW before he was healthy enough for another relationship.

<small>[ August 15, 2003, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Hello again Bobcat--Please take some time for yourself and think things over. Why are you interested in what she will do tomorrow? You need to examine what has occured in BOTH your marriage relationship and your new relationship. I believe you said your wife introduced the two of you--What is up with that? Is this someone the two of you had a friendship with? That may be why she became so volitile but is no excuse...

Dear BobCat,

I am truly saying the following things with respect: I am a WS - and it takes one to know one. I don't think you have looked in the mirror and seen yourself and what you have done. You HAVE had an affair! First, a PA with the girlfriend because you were/are still married to your wife. Then you had an EA (with your wife cuz you were living with your girlfriend pretending to be married). I am not passing judgement on you, just pointing out the obvious that it seems you are refusing to see.

You keep posting that you think your girlfriend should have some understanding for what you were going through - why should she? You lived with her like you were married, and behind her back you were trying to figure out if you wanted to leave her and go back to your wife! Why would you think your girlfriend should be understanding of you...? I'd be mad, too! In essence, what you did was string her along til you figured out you didn't want to be with your Wife after all.

OK...so you confessed all this two weeks ago, then last night everything was going good so you decided to "spill the beans to clear everything up". You should have been 100% open the first time you told her about the emails...what you did was hurt her, give her time to start healing and have hope, then you dropped another bomb on her!

Now you are talking about LoveBusters - has she read the books? DOes she know what a LoveBuster is? You can't expect her not to have LBs if she doesn't know what they are!

The slapping thing sounds like a one time thing - it isn't right at all and it should be dealt with.

I think you have made your GF feel like the consolation prize. You said "Are there any sane girls in this world who are capable of seeing the bigger picture andunderstand that I had to deal with my W and marital issues first?" If that was the case, why didn't you divorce your wife first? I think maybe YOU don't see the big picture.

Again, I am not passing judgement, but I think you are so busy picking your GF apart and you haven't seen what you have done.

And again, I am the Wayward Spouse. I have to look in the mirror everyday and see myself - a lying woman, an adultress. I didn't see it that way in the beginning...

OK

I accept your criticism. Now, just to try and explain my position with my GF further: my wife wanted me to hook up with her because she wanted me out of her life. As it were, we did fall in love with each other. We both agreed that I was going to separate. I had no problem with that. Then suddenly, while I was still trying to sort out the custody and assets, my W's OM left her and she implored me to take her back. My conviction of divorcing her wavered for a moment. I told my GF that straight away. She was paralysed with fear, of course. I do understand that. That same day I wrote my W a letter explaining to her that I have moved on, I cannot turn back. She kept on pleading with me. Later it turned out that she was just feeling insecure and wanted some stability back in her life again. As the divorce proceedings moved forward, the enormity of what I was doing to my children and the distinct possibilty of saving them a broken home kept bothering me. In the event I also discovered the MB website. The MB principles showed me that I was a total fool for doing what no sane person would have done - jumping straight into a new relationship, with my W's blessing though, before I was divorced. The MB principles made the doubts in my mind grow - perhaps I could have saved my M after all: the plan A/B, a better MC, etc. I just had to make sure. What further compounded the matter was that my GF started having anger outbursts soon after my W first pleaded with me to take her back. Up till then I told my GF everyting.

Yes, so she was strung along. That was wrong of me. In the event, I loved her to much to leave her. I just couldn't. I respect her integrity, I appreciate the love that she had for me. I also am absolutely certain now that my W is not the person to whom I should be married.

The question is, am I the person to whom my GF should be married after the way in which I treated her? At last, everything is out in the open now, but how should I deal with my GF's reaction? Certainly I do love her. I feel that there is just no way I am going to give up on her that easily. If she walk out here tomorrow, I am not going to stop the divorce proceedings. I am going to figure out a way of restoring my relationship with my GF. I just hope that she doesn't relocate totally out of reach.

Is there anything that I could say to her tomorrow? At the moment it feels that if I try to to speek to her it will just compound the situation.

Yes, I was a stupid person. No, she is not a consolation prize in my eyes. She is a person worth fighting for. Question is, how do I do it if she wants to have nothing to do with me anymore. I do not blame her. But still, how do I crawl back?

I feel like crawling into a hole and disappear. I shouldn't have put my GF through this. I told her last night that I was going nowhere, I love her. Nothing has changed since then, except the truth about my doubts of the past came out. I think she will not speak another word to me. I feel I deserve that. But still, it would have been fantastic if she would give us just one more chance....even if I have to waite till after the divorce. And start over, slowly rebuilding her love for me.

OK, I know I screwed up. Now, how can I make up for it? I am sure that if we can pass this test, we will have an excellent relationship in the future. What do I do tomorrow?

Aaaah...the plot thickens...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then suddenly, while I was still trying to sort out the custody and assets, my W's OM left her and she implored me to take her back. My conviction of divorcing her wavered for a moment. I told my GF that straight away. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I didn't understand that you told your GF right away. But now I can see why she freaked out! But still it was good that you were honest.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What further compounded the matter was that my GF started having anger outbursts soon after my W first pleaded with me to take her back. Up till then I told my GF everyting. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you did what every man does when there is conflict...shut down to avoid conflict.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is there anything that I could say to her tomorrow?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know. Maybe you could just tell her that you understand that she needs some time to think...and that you will be ready to work on your relationship AND your future when she is ready. Then sit still. You could also have her read your posts on this site - that would really be open.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, so she was strung along. That was wrong of me. In the event, I loved her to much to leave her. I just couldn't. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This sounds like me. I love my husband. I love the OM. I love OM too much to leave him; and I love my H too much to divorce him. It's the fog. SOunds like you had it, too.

At least you are now able to think clearly...you see exactly what you want and want to work at it. Life is so much easier when the fog lifts. I don't know what your GF will do - perhaps it would be best to let her leave so she can see that you are going to get a D no matter what...that would probably be a big thing.

Thanks Jaref

I am 99% shure that tomorrow morning she will come out of the bedroom and not speak a word to me. She will start making arrangements to move out straight away. I don't think I can stop her from leaving. I am sure she thinks, rightfully, that I am the biggest liar on the face of the earth.

I expect the divorce to be completed in about 3 weeks. From past experience, I can tell you that when she became angry and upset by the drawn out divorce proceedings, she went out with other men which may or may not include one night stands or weekend flings. I for sure will still be here. Somehow we have to make contact about what she will take out of the house. She told me that one of her past lovers once tried to reestablish contact with her but she just got up and walked out. I get the feeling that this is the treatment that I am getting now.

Any suggestions on how to cut through this ice?

Just a correction: while we were together she did not have weekend flings or one night stands. Before her first M she did that when things went wrong between her and her fiance. With me she just went out with somebody she met and came back telling me that, that was not the type of person that she wanted.

It's not only men that are complicated. Women are just as complicated, perhaps even more: just joking.

Tomorrow will be tough. Tonight will be tougher. At least tommorrow I will now for sure if my worst nightmares are going to come true.

Any thoughts from anyone will be appreciated. Thank you again everybody.

I must say that your GF sounds like she is very child-like in her behavior:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My GF has told me just this afternoon that once somebody crossed swords with her, they are enemies for live. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That seems very immature...and holier than though. That seems like the kind of idealism you get from someone who is not mature.

BobCat, I don't think you can stop her from leaving. I don't think there is one thing you can say to her that would stop her. But I bet this: I bet she wants you to try to stop her. I bet she measures how much you love her by how much you beg her to stay. (I'm kindof that way). I mean, have you ever had a fight with a woman and have her leave the room, but you didn't follow her? I bet you 9 times out of 10 the woman will come back in the room and say "Why didn't you follow me...don't you care about me?" It's immature, but I am exactly that way. I need to see action...(yes, I can be very immature)

But I would be concerned about her going out with other men when she was angry, then calling you and telling you about it. Now that's MANIPULATIVE. I would be very concerned about that. Sounds like she does that to control you.

Bobcat,
I'm really not in any position to give advice, but I'll put my 2 cents in anyway. I am the BS, my W left me about a month ago. I have learned alot since then. I've probably read more in this last month than I have in the 16 years my W and I were married. I learned from several sources that rebound relationships usually don't last. If you marry someone right after getting divorced, there is about a 60 percent chance that relationship will not work. I know you feel you love this person, but you may be in the same kind of fog your wife was in. I know I will stay faithful to my wife until we both decide to separate. I owe that much to her and to myself. I don't want to have more burden on my shoulders than I already have. Maybe you should look at the problems in your marriage and try to fix them before staying in the relationship you are now in. If you give your marriage as much of a chance to heal and still fail, then at least you know you did everything you could before you moved on. I know this isn't what you really wanted to hear, but it's the way I would handle it. I would not want to bring baggage into another relationship... Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck in whatever you decide to do...

Thank you lost-whithout-her

Same here. I really started to read like crazy. First I panicked when I realised back then that my WW was serious about the divorce and running off with somebody else. It hit me like a cannon shell between the eyes. I panicked and got the first MC I could find. She listened to my W's story and basically told her to take her kids, divorce and go and be happy. My W told me since that nothing that anyone told her back then would have induced her to change her mind about divorcing me. I tried everyting. Then, it seems, out of desperation to get me off her back and maybe some guilt, she invited her friend to stay with us. She was very in love with me because she knew about all my WW's affairs and felt very sorry for me. That's how we got to know each other and started a relationship while I was still married. In the meantime though, I had a lot of contact with my W and she really has issues that makes her a big love risk. I just cannot count on her. I don't love her any more although I feel I understand her now ten times better than ever.

I am very much in love with my GF, but, no matter how much pain has been inflicted, from personal experience I know that a reasonble person will sit down, talk, and talk, and try to understand and eventually forgive and start loving again. I sort of agree with Jared, if she can't do that, she lacks some essential life skills and if she don't learn that, I will forever have trouble sorting out marital problems and conflict in the future.

Thanks again for you 2c. I really appreciate it.

Bobcat--How many times do I have to say this to you?? Take some time for yourself!! I agree with the other members and this sounds like a manipulative ploy to keep you attached to her. You had stated that this woman had been seceretly in love with you and your wife introduced the two of you? Please I implore you to really look at the ramafacations of this relationship. May I ask--Are you afraid to be on your own for a little while? I am new here but have been lurkig for a little while. Are you completely out of your fog yet?--Or has this relationship with your girlfriend helped in your transitions with your wife? Be Ohhh, so careful because it sounds like your heart has been broken once-your'e not even divorced from your wife yet--Do you need these problems right now? Just concerned about your wellbeing and I'm a true believer in taking one step at a time.. Good Luck with All of this.

Yes S@S,

it may be the best to take some time out. I feel that Jared is right in her assessment that she would like me to follow her and implore on her to reconsider. But when she is mad, she is mad and trying to talk to her sometimes makes her even worse.

In a sense I took some time off when I communicated with my W for about two months a while ago. I really don't want to pick my W apart but I am satisfied that I don't want to be married to her. She has emotional issues that I perhaps delibirately overlooked during our marriage. Now with the 20/20 view of hindsight and so much more information, I see a person who needs psychological help.

Then again, the way my GF is acting up now is worrysome to me too. I understand that she is mad at me, but... Somewhere a reasonable person would not become violent and would keep the communication channels wide open. That is what I did last year towards my wife, no matter how shocked, stunned, and hurt I felt. Her reactions and actions will lead us towards each other or away from each other. If it will take some time out during the Big Chill which started last night, then I will endure it. It may perhaps be a good thing to look things over. This thing should not be rushed.

It's not nice to be alone. But I will give this a chance and a little time-out if need be.

Tanx for your insight S@S

The easiest way for you to do get through this (it’s still gonna hurt, but it’s much easier than the way you are going) is to sort your marriage out first.

Either work it out or get a divorce before you continue on with the gf.