I am cutting and pasting my posts from the pregnancy/infidelity board, as I was informed this might be a good source of guidance/support/info:OK here is the short version:
I am 28, we have been together since I was 15. I knew he had an affair 5 yr ago
with co-worker, but just recently (3 wk ago) a baby girl was born. Yes, the affair
had continued. He says he wants to stay with me and "work it out", but there is so
much to consider-so many complications, feelings etc.

I was dignosed with breast cancer in December, we even went to fertility specialist
proir to my chemo because "we" were concerned with the possibility of infertility
assoc with my treatments. It turns out the doc said there was nothing to do at that
point, as my treatment was more pressing than anything, and we could cross the
infertility bridge if and when we come to it-it may not be a problem.She was
already pregnant at this time, and we very likely could have become pregnant at
that time if the doc recommended it-which was quite likely.

Well, he doesn't expect her to legally demand child support-yeah, right. I have been
told by others that she told him that if he "doesn't move in with her and leave me,
she will sue his a~~ off". I say good-then she will finally be the ENEMY to him that
I want her to be. She is 43! I have also been told she intentionally went off birth
control (unknown to him) in order to have this baby as an attempt to force him into
a permanent relationship with her and force me out of the picture-she has wanted
him to move in with her and leave me for a long time, and he never would do so.

We get along in our daily lives so well-we truely enjoy our lives together-this being
the exception.

So many feelings though-financially it won't be a burden, but emotionally-I will
resent every penny that goes in her direction-I know the baby needs financial
support, and it is innocent, but he has never been the kind to spend $$ on me-now
I feel well, yeah jealous. Also, if he wants visitation I think he MUST do it with
ME-WE can have arrangements so that WE can pick up the child and have her for
visitation-he cannot expect to go to her house-alone- and visit!

He could have ended the affair before there were any permanent ties.

Also, I would LOVE to have had a child, a family. and HOPE desperately that I CAN
after the 3-5 yr I am supposed to wait.

Breast cancer at the age of 27, now this-I feel I am loosing the love of my life.
Believe it or not, but this is much harder than facing a life threatening disease at
27. Sometimes I wonder well, I don't want to realize in several years that there is
still an affair, or another one, or that my options are reduced-like having to start
over and look for a new partner and less time to have a family.
I also feel that he threw away the opportunity for us to share in the birth of a first
child together, as he shared it with her already.

She still pages him. I don't know how to make it end. And I suspect he fears
"pissing her off" as she would be more likely to sue him.

Thoughts, suggestions??
Thank you
PS they no longer work together.
I don't really know what to do-where to begin. I have read it all and it makes sense, but
implementing the plans, policies, etc-what to do what to do, and what order, and you
know.

Do I go to the site with my husband and read some of the things together, do I just try to
discuss them from memory, do I print some of the questionnaires and info and work from
them, do we need to make an appt (of course this is a bit challenging as my cancer
treatment has used up all of our $$), do we both get on the phone and have a conference
session?? Is there any financial consideration due to my/our circumstances? Also, someone
referred to "Cerri"-I looked all over the site, and found no reference-then someone enlightened me of this board.

Any info is greatly appreciated.

I am trying to do my best and work through this as much as possible, as I just had another
surgery Thursday, and I am trying to discuss/consider/research between pain, medication,
etc.

Glad I found this site and hope to get some help/advisement/encouragement.

Thank you more than you can imagine

GW,

Cerri is not usually here on weekends, but come Monday morning, I'm sure she'll check out the thread. Keep bumping it so she will see it. I believe that you can recover your marriage even considering the complications....IF your husband will commit to counseling and a good recovery plan like MB.

Check out cerri's site... saveyourmarriagecentral it's a great alternative most counseling would be too expensive for you.

Now, as far as your situation....the big question, and the one that needs to be answered....Is your husband ready to end the affair with this OW??? (not the child, but her) Without a real end...marriage counseling will not be successful. So you need a plan if he is unwilling to end the affair....the ones Dr. Harley recommends are Plan A and B. Have you read about these plans? You have lots of issues....and they will have to be dealt with as you go through the whole process (child visitation, finances, jealousy etc), but for now...concentrate on the thing that is causing the most damage to your marriage...and that's the A. During recovery, there will be time to address these other issues...but right now...you need clear thinking about the A....and clear boundaries....so try to put those on the back burner for a bit and put your effort into to ridding your marriage of this OW. You may have to make some hard choices....for instance...who knows about this affair and baby? His family? Your family? Your friends? Exposure will be part of any Plan A. Are you ready to do that?

Good luck chere....keep posting.

<small>[ August 16, 2003, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

guess "bumping " is just adding reply so mssg doesn't "fall off and disappear"??

Still awaiting feedback-thx for reply already-will ck back

just don't want my mssg to disappear

GW -

Yes, that's what bumping is.

Hon, you're going through a heckuva time right now. Having been through infertility, I have seen many women who have hoped and prayed for a child, but who have had to come to them through ways that are far from ideal. This is one of those situations.

My suggestion is that you and your H immediately see a lawyer and set up appropriate visitation, custody, and child support arrangements. Appropriate, in this situation, is going to be damned difficult to figure out, but you and your H may well want to ask for sole legal and physical custody of the child.

Do it now. And make clear to your husband that this is for the child, not for the affair partner. And start telling the world about this. Tell his family. Tell her family. Tell your friends and co-workers.

Why? You need the support! Present it that way: I love my husband, I want to work things out, and we're in an incredibly difficult situation. We need to do what's right for this baby, I need him to end the affair, and the whole thing is breaking my heart.

Your families will find ways to support you. And her, because she also needs it. And your husband, who may need it most of all.

Other than the baby, that is.

This baby has been born into one of the most difficult situations a child can start the world in, and she deserves not just financial support from both parents, but all the emotional, psychological, and other support that can come from having two fully involved parents.

Or in this case, three. No matter what happens, this child is part of YOUR life for the rest of your life, too. It's going to take work, but do your darndest to love the child while you grieve over the situation. And understand that she is a victim of everyone's adult issues and problems, not a focus for the resentment that those things create.

Love, and lots of it, is going to be required here.

And it's going to have to be a very tough version of love. For your H, for OW, and for yourself. Y'all need a GOOD lawyer. One who can ask you hard, hard, HARD questions and make you go away to figure out the answers before he or she takes any action.

And expect this journey to last many months or years. Just the visitation and custody will take that long. Parenting the baby lasts for the rest of all three of your lives!

well, I have tried to live our lives "normally" for the last few weeks-so as not to "push him into her arms" and so he would think about how our "normal" life is-the good time-day in day out.

I did tell him about the MB site and that there is some information that would help both of us through this. He saw me checking the board for replies-I am not ashamed of seeking help-and I explained what it was, and offered for him to read my original post-maybe he would better understand-but he said I was a "fruitcake" and walked out of the room. I then decided I must tell him how I feel, what I want, goals, expectations, fears, etc. He has never been one to talk much, but did listen-although I feel he should contribute/respond more-but he did say that he knows I want a family and that he plans for that for us too. But he has said that all along-even while he has been seeing her, and while she was pregnant. He has always said when asked-no he isn't seeing her, talking to her--and he was. She pages him and calls him at work. I told him I understand how difficult it must have been on him to lie to both of us for so long and to deal with the cover-ups, guilt, etc, and that I know he will likely continue to have urges to keep up contact with her, but that he must not. I so wish she would take him to court for cs/visitation because then I think he would realize they aren't on a "team" against me-they always had a common goal-he and I would then be on the same team.

He won't tell me any info about how he managed to spend time with her. Shouldn't he have to be accountable to me. Maybe I should not push the past issue about how/when, but make him accountable to me in the future? He says they haven't discussed cs or visitation. I know he will keep talking to her so as not to make her mad and result in legal action (cs)-I think he really thinks he can continue along-live our lives normally, sneak around and see her like he has for years, and give her a little cash every now and then-I told him that wasn''t going to happen.

I feel like he says all the right things when he has to, he always has, but that I am the only one trying-that nothing is changing.

I need him to be my support-emotionally-to show me he wants this to work, to reassure me, to make changes, and to work at it.

I bet that after our "discussion" and over the past couple weeks-he is telling her how bad I am, and that if she will be patient, he will "get rid of me" in hopes of keeping at least one of us on the line as backup.
I can "spread the word" that he regrets the choices he has made, and that he says he loves me and wants to stay together and work our relationship out (he has said that)maybe then she would push him away, or take action. I was told that she gave him an ultimatum that "if he didn't leave me and be with her, she would sue him for everything she can".

What to do, what to do?

Getting tired of feeling like I am the only one to work at this. He says he loves me and wants to be with me-I believe him, but I think he is still trying to keep from making her mad, as to cause himself legal grief, and also to keep that option open too perhaps.

In the beginning GW, in Plan A, it IS you who will be doing most of the work. Is it unfair??? You damned right it is!! But it works anyway and it's way better than continuing to allow the OW to manipulate your husband. Please take the time to read Dr. Harley's plans for ending affairs.

oh and you didn't answer my questions about who knows about this affair.

OOps-totally wrapped up in "what am I going to do" forgot to answer-His mother, stepdad, and grandmother-my mom, one of my brothers, and sis in law. one of her relatives contacted me-so they ALL know now. I know all of his co-workers know, and helped keep it from me for so long-I was told she told everyone when she retired in Dec that she wanted everyone to spread the word that she was preg w/his baby-I think she wanted it to get to me so that I would give him up to her.

Okay....how are you doing with love busters?

As far as me toward him-not so-I have been calm and collected. I have calmly made the effort to discuss things-not been judgemenal-even told him how I know it must have been so difficult and stressful for him over the past-sympathetic almost I guess. I haven't made any angry outbursts. I go in the other room to cry at times, as I know that would be seen by him as annoying. With exception or trying to discuss thimgs a couple times over the past few weeks, I have tried to live normally-so he would have that sense/appreciation of normalcy.

now I understand from another source, that he has agreed to pay $700/mo cs-outside the court agreement between the two of them. I feel like they are still going behind my back and making arrangements-I have no say , but he wants to stay with me-of course, he doesn't have much after $700/cs-and I do think he does love me and want to be with me.

He has had 2 separate lives. He shared such important things with her, having a child, sex life, honors at work, emotional stuff-I feel like I was just the roommate.

I feel that if he were to include me in decisions/choices-even about the baby-I mean if we stay together, I have a right to have a say of what goes on-financially, and visitation etc-that well, I still feel like he has another life going on, I want him to have one life-with me, and the baby can be a part of that if he chooses to have visitation.

Gosh, I would like to be able to have a child and stay home with it-now if we do stay together, I will have to work so much/hard-more than if we didn't have the $ obligation to her for cs-now if we stay together and have a family, well financially it won't be as easy as it should/could have. I make much more $$ than him-I wanted to be able to work part time and have a family. She has her retirement and now will get cs-she can afford to stay home-and plans to.

still don't know what to do

should I just tell him the above about being honest and including me-should I tell him maybe he should leave (I don't want him to), just don't know

He still isn't being open and honest-talks to her while at work-she pages him

GW,

I want to bump you up so that cerri can see this and hopefully reply. Yes! You should be included in the decisions he makes....even about the child. I wouldn't push him out of the door...it will be just too easy for him to go to her. Wait for some advice from cerri before doing anything drastic.

GW -

Boy, I'm hurting for you on this one. It sounds like you're going to go through a very difficult time in the next few months/years. And no matter how it turns out, it's going to be that way!

If I may suggest something, while you're waiting for Cerri's Internet to return: Sit down and think about YOU. Just you. Forget all of this and write down all the things that you want in your life. Spiritually, mentally, emotionally, financially, physically, environmentally. All of it. What do YOU want?

It won't help at all in the day-to-day things, I suspect. But maybe it'll give you a little more clarity when you hit those days where you have no idea why you're doing what you're doing.

thx for the replies-I will try to be patient-I will write, I will think.

I will wait for more guidance and recommendations.

I will try to not worry-so hard-have nightmares, and wake up with sweats-heart pounding-then all I can do is lay and think of the heartache.

I know she is still paging him while he is at work-and am sure he responds-almost can't help myself from saying anything-will have to return to work from my most recent surgery and know it will be easier for them to communicate/see each other-and harder for me-wish it would end

thank you

G.W.,
For starters, my heart goes out to you. You feel cheated in so many aspects, and rightly so.What you need to be asking yourself, is not what you can change, but what can you live with about this person. To have a brief affair is devastating enough, but to have it continue on for so long, and now with the child a constant reminder of it. You are the only one who can make this decision, but don't stay with him, because you don't think there is enough time to find someone else, make the time you need to be happy.
Take care of yourself first, and hopefully, things will work out for you. Tristan

OK-
I re-read the MB info daily-I gain some understanding and parts I miss each time I re-read.
Even though found out about the 1st affair 5 y ago with the same woman, and tried to stop it/rebuild then and THOUGHT (well sometimes wondered) the A ended-but now to find he con't the A and now had a baby resulting from the A-He wants to pretend like it never happened and I think go on as he has-secretly seeing her. Am trying to do plan A-just got the drift from last re-read that I have to put my needs/feelings/etc on back burner-fulfilling his for now-he may realize what he has?? Is that the idea? But how do you get through the need for answers/remorse/explanations from WH-the need to talk, the need for reassurance? Do I just focus on trying to please his EN's for now (think I know them-but have to guess as he isn't open for discussion)? He loves thae fact that I can have enjoyable time with him and pretend like there is no problem-how does that evoke change?

Is there one of the books I should get and read-(Surviving an Affair?)or others?Would it help for me to read alone-as he won't "get involved"-he thinks by telling me he has gone NC (hasn't really gone NC-if he had when he said he did, they wouldn't have had relationship last 5y and baby)that everything can just be normal-he doesn't "get" the fact that things MUST CHANGE he likes the way things are and have been.

I find myself giving giving giving-in hopes of a gift of love, honesty, loyalty, reassurance back. I tell him I love him often-I think mostly just to hear the I love you too back. I give massages/affection in hopes of pleasing him and getting affection back-doesn't happen.

I NEED the love and affection/reassurance, etc.

Do I just keep permitting him to think everything is OK and go on like before-and then wait and "catch him" again-only fooling myself too in the meantime? Do I give him the "good life" a while longer and show him we can stay together and work through things without him "paying for his crimes" everyday with me via discussion etc-show him how good it can be and then switch to plan b after a while? Is the threat of plan b ever enough?
In plan A is it like creating your own fog? Only show him the good times, don't cause stress, worry, etc?
Still need advice, thoughts, guidance

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He loves thae fact that I can have enjoyable time with him and pretend like there is no problem-how does that evoke change?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Think of it as a stealth-mode thing. You have fun with him, so in the back of his head, he associates you with good times.

But that's FAR from the goal of Plan A!! Plan A is all about ending the affair. Nothing more, nothing less. If all you're doing is meeting his needs, then you're not in Plan A.

The rest of Plan A is about putting pressure on the affair. And THAT won't make him happy. It'll make him crazy. You tell all the family and friends you can find. You tell at work. You tell it kindly, gently: I still love him, but this has to end. I made mistakes, but this has to end. We need support. We need help. Can you help by [doing x] ? Can you support by [doing y]?

Yes, you should get Surviving an Affair. And you should talk to Cerri, or Steve, or Jen. Yes it will help you to read it alone. Expect that your H will never read it, and if he does, he'll tell you it's full of poop. But some things will sink in nonetheless.

You're absolutely right that things MUST CHANGE. And that means that YOU have to decide how they have to change in order for you to be able to stay married to him. And then begin to negotiate for those things. Negotiation is a Plan A tactic; use it for all it's worth. When you decide that the negotiations are no longer worth the effort, then you implement Plan B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I find myself giving giving giving-in hopes of a gift of love, honesty, loyalty, reassurance back. I tell him I love him often-I think mostly just to hear the I love you too back. I give massages/affection in hopes of pleasing him and getting affection back-doesn't happen.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ooo, hon, you're giving what YOU want, instead of asking for it! Don't do that. Give him what HE wants (without being asked if you can figure it out) and ASK FOR WHAT YOU WANT. Gently.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I NEED the love and affection/reassurance, etc.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No you don't.

Now, I thought I did, too. It made me crazy that I wasn't getting it. But you know what? I don't need it. I'm living fine without it, and without my WS, too. (Though I hope and pray daily for something different, this is the life I live now.) The only person who can give you what you need is YOU. You can, and should, love yourself. With that love, everyone else meeting your needs becomes icing on the cake/falling in love.

But the way you make it sound is that you're going to be destroyed without it. And the simple truth is, you're NOT going to be destroyed. You're an incredibly strong, capable person. Do you WANT other people to love you and meet your needs? Absolutely! But you CAN do it yourself, and you will if you have to. Never forget that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do I just keep permitting him to think everything is OK and go on like before-and then wait and "catch him" again-only fooling myself too in the meantime?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Extraordinary precautions. If you haven't implemented them, you're setting yourself up for failure and you know it. Gotta get him to put them in place. If he won't, you're not in recovery. Watch, snoop, expose, meet needs. And YES, make things as OK as you can while you're doing those things.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do I give him the "good life" a while longer and show him we can stay together and work through things without him "paying for his crimes" everyday with me via discussion etc-show him how good it can be and then switch to plan b after a while? Is the threat of plan b ever enough?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NEVER threaten Plan B. That's just your Taker's desire for revenge. You never, ever, ever get to be mean to your H, no matter how much you want to. And being mean comes in all kinds of forms. Punishment is not something you get to do. You just don't, no matter which plan you're in.

(Much as I WANT to scream all my anger and hurt out at my partner, I don't. It's punishment that isn't right. I scream it all out in my car, by myself, with no one to hear me at all.)

Not easy stuff. Not any of it. But when you finally understand it, you'll understand its power.

<small>[ August 22, 2003, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: J of HJK ]</small>

Thanks J-
your reply helps a lot, but I read about plan a(&b)and think I understand them, but...

OK I just re-read plan a again-never got the "negotiation part" until reading your post and then re-reading plan a. So I am supposed to attept to find out what his EN's are (hard to do when he doesn't really want to discuss anything related to A or "what went wrong"), which one's weren't met that helped cause the A and work on that-which will be a means of negotiation in itsself?? ---Should I ask what HIS needs are, in planning to meet them, presenting it as a desire to solely make him happier in our relationship, with the underlying, unsaid plan of negotiation of change.Also, I didn't know it was OK to ask him to meet my needs now, as I don't want him to feel as if he has to--wait, that sounds stupid, he should have to/want to meet my needs-just approaching it gently as you put it, guess that is the trick.

OK, what am I to negotiate, how am I to put pressure on the A, what is plan A to consist of for me?????
His family knows, and his co-workers knew of the A for its entireity-what kinds of things am I to ask for help with? They are all not mentioning the A or the new baby, as he didn't tell them (or me for that matter) should they mention/discuss/question the A/baby/etc?

The more replies, the more I understand and the more I know to ask, at first I think I understand, but ...

Wll, let me say this is all helping bouncing it back and forth.

With much appreciation, I look forward to more replies, guidance and clarification.

Ooh, and as far as talking to Cerri, Steve or Jen-
someone recommended this board, in hopes of putting me in contact with Cerri-don't know about Steve or Jen-I see that Cerri has net probs, and I have been anxiously awaiting a reply from her-

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Been off line so long I forgot how to work the darn machine! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ August 22, 2003, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: cerri ]</small>