After listening to her therapist Friday night, W has decided that she is definitely moving out and wants the divorce. This is truly my saddest day so far with two more coming that will surpass it. I can't put into words the depth of my despair at this moment. I truly thought I was ready for this, put am now painfully aware that I wasn't.<P>Why things like this have to happen, I have no clue. I asked her to tell me she loved OM and she said "Why?". I told her she didn't really owe me anything, but I did feel like I deserved the truth at this point. For some reason, she just can't be honest with me about this.<P>I also asked if she wanted to spend Christmas day with him. She said no and I asked why not? She said she wanted to spend it with me. I'm having a hard time with this. Christmas is supposed to be a happy and joyous time. I can't fake it and I don't really want to try. I think I would rather be alone. I know this flies in the face of how all of the rest of you that have been deserted feel. I don't know why I feel this way, I just do.<P>A large part of me died today. I need to go on, but I can't just yet. Another three weeks or so of torture to my soul must be endured. I'm not religious so I can't depend on a God. Where will I find the strength to survive the next few weeks.<P>I haven't been an evil person. Why does she have to go? She says that she needs the "break", that she doesn't know what she wants to do, but doesn't want any restrictions against doing anything.<P>Can I trust my heart to anyone else ever again? Right now it doesn't feel like it. My trust and love have been violated and disregarded. Is there anything more precious than those two gifts?<P>Sorry for this, it's more for me right now than for publication. I'm now at the same point as a whole lot of you here and it doesn't feel very good.<P>--DeWayne--<BR>

{{{{{{{{{{{{DeWayne}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>I'm so sorry, my friend. This is a hard, hard time and I wish you weren't having to go through it.<P>Please try to take care of yourself. Nothing at this moment will ease the pain, but write if you need anything at all. Just go with it minute by minute and soon it will ease a little.<P>I'm thinking of you.<P>Lori

I'm so sorry... and, believe it or not, I know how you feel.<P>It would be helpful if she would just "own up" to her feelings and let you "off the hook"... and I feel the same about my H. It's the waffling that gets us every time!<P>Let's all try to have a nice Christmas - for <B>ourselves</B> if for nobody else... and the kids, grandkids, nieces and nephews... <P>((((((DeWayne))))))<P>~Sheryl

Thanks, Lori. You're always there for me...<P>Sheryl, I <B>know</B> you know how I feel. I also realize how many others here also know first-hand.<P>If I weren't 900 miles from nearest family, I could find some comfort. Can't travel, time off is restricted due to Y2K...

DeWayne,<P>I guess we can spend the crying together. I understand totally how you feel. No matter how you think you are prepared for something like this you aren't. I haven't figured out where I want to spend Christmas yet. I don't want to be alone but I would just rather skip it altogether. I hope that I am can type this well enough for you to read, the tears are falling so hard I can't see.<BR>You let me vent to you yesterday so here is my email address for you to vent on. I know how much you are hurting today because I am in the same pain my friend. diseiler@hotmail.com<BR> We need icon with tears.<BR>{{{{{{{{DeWayne}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

DeWayne,<BR>I know how you feel. Really I do. The whole time that H said he was trying, I felt it would be better if he were just gone. But when he walked out and told me he wsn't leaving me for another woman, just plain leaving......it broke my heart. It is very sad. I still love him. Things are different now that it has been 8 months, not better....just different. The saddness doesn't overwhelm me as much but it is still present. I think of him everyday. I miss him everyday. But I have survived. Wow!!!!! I have survived, can't believe I said that. It is very hard. But you just do it. As for trusting my heart with anyone else. I don't think I can still even after all these months. My getting on with my life doesn't involve finding someone to spend it with....mine involves finding someone....myself. Tomorrow is another day filled with what, we don't know...maybe bad...maybe good. Hopefully good, I know alot of us deserve that. Good luck...she sounds like there just might be a chance after all....I'm jealous! Nancy

di -- You are right, we can cry together. I will try to e-mail you a little later..<P>Nancy -- I don't know what you mean about there might be a chance after all. She is as good as gone. I told her and her therapist finally agreed that there was no way a "break" with no restrictions was an acceptable part of marriage. If she does decide to come back sometime later, and I accept her, doesn't that mean that I implicitly went along with her no-holds-barred "break". This has been a big issue and I stood my ground. Where is my self-respect if I accept her back after the "break"? Maybe I'm missing something here that you can enlighten me on.....

DeWayne,<BR>A lot goes out the door with love. This is just me, and I'm not sure everyone agrees with me. My H told me that I was demeaning myself when I told him that I loved him after he left. I talked about this with my therapist. He agreed with me. I do not feel that you are demeaning yourself or throwing away your self-respect if you truly believe in something. I believe in honesty and that you must live your life for no one else. If you want your wife back....even if she needed space and time and that it went against everyone else...who cares. If she is what you want then go for it. Then there are no regrets in the future. I believe in marriage and commitment. If that means putting my heart on the line...so be it. I have to live with it...no one else. You said something in your post about her wanting to spend Christmas with you, not the OM. It implies to me that she still is very confused. Where there is a will, there is a way. If your still breathing, there is hope. Please keep us posted Nancy

Nancy, thanks for the clarification. I have fought this "break" once she let me know that she wanted no "restrictions". As I have said in prior posts, she wants the freedom to be with OM during the "break". I know this because I asked her if she would remain faithful during her time away. She replied that she couldn't say yes because she didn't want any rules.<P>I also believe in marriage and commitment. That's why I cannot go along with a fling during a "break" in the marriage. Marriage and commitment mean that you don't get time off to fool around with someone else. This is as against my nature as murder. She wanted to remain married while she went out to "find herself"(or more accurately, help OM find his way to her bed). I have told her that this is impossible for me.<P>So, once she leaves and has her fun, if she did decide she wanted to come back and I let her, shouldn't I have ignored my principles and agreed to "fun time" in the first place?

DeWayne,<BR>I hear what you are saying. Your values and morals don't allow you to understand some things. I know, mine didn't either. I tried to reorganize my values and put them in different order. Didn't work. But I still believe that when you love someone that you just never know what can happen. I can't honestly say that if my H walked back in the door, said he was sorry and that he was the biggest [censored] in the world that I couldn't take him back. I still love him and sometimes love blinds you from everything that is right and wrong. I understand when you say that you can't take her back because she is using this time and time in the marriage to find herself. But what if she does find herself. The same woman that you fell in love with. The same woman that you said I do to. The same woman that you pledged to have and to hold...in good times and in bad.....Its complicated. But I know that I can never say "never" when it comes to my H. I'm still breathing...so I still have hope....Sorry if none of this makes sense.....sometimes I don't understand it myself....but I know I still love him and even though I have self-respect and that I deserve more and far better than I have recieved in the last year, I know I can never say never.....Nancy

Nancy -- I guess I'm not saying <B>never</B>, but rather, most likely not. If I'm willing to take her back after "playtime" then I should have agreed to it, without the divorce, in the first place. Don't worry, you are making complete sense. I'm probably the one that's not considering the teary fog in my brain....<P>--DeWayne--<p>[This message has been edited by Heartpain (edited December 19, 1999).]

Heartpain -- I have no magical words, so please accept my thoughts and prayers.<P>God Bless

Thanks, ES...

DeWayne you have mail. My only comment is that don't lock the door you don't know how you will feel if she decides she wants to come back. Don't make a decision until then.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Got the mail, Diana. I know deep down you are right, but on the surface I am going the other way.<P>I realized a couple of nights ago that it feels like there may be a lot of unexpressed anger lurking deep down. I may have to talk to my therapist about that...

Heartpain,<P>Just got to your post. So sorry this has happened. i read all your replies to Nancy's post. This is tricky, because I wrestle with the same thing...how do you get over something you morally object to??? How to continue self-respect???<P>This is the answer I gave myself:<P>If my H was an embezzler, would I turn my back on him and never forgive him or want him back? The answer is that I would be ashamed of what he had done (embezzlement) and it would be something against my value system, but I would still love him, wait for him to get our of jail if that was involved and forgive him if he was truly contrite and made amends as best he could.<P>So, for me, I could forgive my H even though he is doing things I morally object to, that embaress me and are hurting me very much. Even though he is off in "fun" time right now, I would still forgive him if he would ever stop....<P>Know this is not the same for everyone, but another point of view to consider....<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

DeWayne,<P>So sorry to hear the news. It is shocking even though you probably knew it was going to happen. I know it was for me.<P>As for religion, you really should try it. God is there for all of us. I don't think I would have got through all this with out him.<P>Maybe her break will help her clear her head and she will come back. For me it wasn't the sex so much as the repeated rejections and complete reversal in her personality that has become the turnoff for me. Also I don't feel I could ever trust her again, she seemed to have this secret life I didn't know about. She would keep the next one even deeper.<P>I am sorry for you and know how much you are hurting. Let me know if I can be of any help.<P>Bob

Heartpain<BR> I'm sorry you had to hear that from your W. I know how much it hurts you. <P> Enjoy the time you have left with her. Be the guy that she WANTS to be with. Hide your pain as much as you can. It may turn suddenly for you at Christmas. Use ANY opening you can find to ENJOY each other. She may change her mind (or may be testing) <P> Since you don't have a GOD and I'm a Christian, I'm sending mine RIGHT OVER to help!! Good Luck FRANK

RWD(Bob) -- Thanks, man. Trust has been the big issue here. With her not wanting to say anything about her current relationship with OM, I haven't been able to put it out of my mind and concentrate on what I needed to do. I don't know why, but she doesn't seem to understand it. We really didn't put the work into repairs that we should have. Her refusal to talk gave me the impression that she wasn't really interested and because of that, I didn't give my all, either.<P>Frank -- Thanks to you, too. She still shows lots of signs of affection, but still wants to leave. It's hard for me to be the right person for her in an impossible situation.<P>Anyway, this is for <B>all</B> of you who have responded. Your giving of yourselves to support me in this time has been overwhelming. I never believed that I could have so many friends who care and help in any way they can. I love you all and thank you from the bottom of my heart.<P>--DeWayne--

Greetings, again, all.<P>I have an update from last night. The frustration I was feeling was quickly building into anger, so I wanted to address my feelings to her before the anger manifested itself.<P>Bottom line is, that during the conversation, I asked her if she really wanted the divorce. She said "No", but she felt she had to have the freedoms she wanted. A long discussion ensued where I insisted that if what she wanted was <B>not</B> incompatible with being married, she didn't need to leave to have them. She said that what she wanted wasn't incompatible with being married, but I wouldn't like it.<P>The example she brought up was the proposed "date" with OM to go to a concert that she cancelled at the last minute due to my objections. I tried to get her to understand that at the time, it was extremely inappropriate for her to do that and I wanted her to understand that for herself. Instead she gave the reason for cancelling that "I don't want to be hearing about this from now on".<P>I proposed that we set a plan with a fixed time frame, two or three months, where we make solid commitments to each other to try to work things out. She said that we had already done that. I tried to explain that we really <B>hadn't</B> tried that because we never set any goals and for most of this fall, I was living under the threat of her leaving. She stated many times this fall that she <B>had</B> to move out.<P>I asked that we dedicate ourselves to trying to fix what was wrong without the "moving out" threat. If things really got intolerable for her during the 2-3 months, there was no reason why she couldn't leave immediately, but she should try to stick it out. At the end of whatever time period, we would, together, evaluate our progress or lack thereof, and make decisions based on that.<P>She feels guilty about going out with friends and co-workers thinking I don't approve. She insists that this is one of the freedoms she wants. I told her that during this last half of the year, she kept saying this, but <B>never</B> putting it to the test. I said that during this 2-3 months that she needed to do these things and really see what my reaction was. That was something she has never done, just keeps saying I don't approve.<P>Anyway, there was more, but it ended with her, in an irritated tone, saying that she needed to think about it.<P>She has to go to work today, so OM will probably put the kabosh on this, but I <B>did</B> try. I'm going to e-mail her one of my infamous "letters" to her, to try to better explain what I want to try and maybe use a little persuasion. She feels we have tried this before(we really haven't, at least not with goals, etc) and it would be a waste to do it again. I assured her that this would be the last time and if it <B>did</B> work, wouldn't it be worth it. She did seem to consider that a bit, so who knows. I will keep all of you posted(as if you didn't already know that) and thanks again for your love and support.<P>Thanks for listening