Sending a "just found out" BS good wishes, and saying you're sorry for her pain is all good and well .... but, do you actually feel qualified in offering her advice you are unwilling to do for yourself?

Let's discuss YOU Jaref.

What is YOUR plan for today? What baby steps, or bold steps for that matter, are you currently working on?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...but, do you actually feel qualified in offering her advice you are unwilling to do for yourself? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know this has been a debate before. I am not offering advice to a BS on what I am unwilling to do myself - I am offering advice from the WS perspective of what I wish my BS would do.

Don't any of you ever see that a WS is looking for something...needing something? Yes, the WS is 100% wrong...but can't you see sometimes it is a scream, a plea for help.

I am trying to tell you people that what Dr. Harley says is RIGHT ON! Expose the A. Do you think if my parents knew what I was doing that I could keep it up? I would be shamed. All I try to do is give the perspective of the WS - I have been through the phase where I think the other man is the soulmate...now I am at the place where I see in him all the things you see in someone you have been with for years - when they belch and fart. What I am saying is that if you accelerate the A, it's demise comes faster.

ANyway, I'm outa here. I'll just read for a while. So many of you get teed off cuz I offer advice - but what I am offering is HOPE. I think I offer these BS hope because I am confirming to them what Dr. Harley says.

Anyway, I will miss you all, but I will keep reading.

Hi jared it is me hurtin, Please dont be upset with the replys to why are you giving advice. Some people probably have been hurt so bad by the other woman they can't help but say something. Please please keep posting you can help many woman . May I ask you to try something on your own.. You said if your parents knew what you were doing you would not be doing it any more. Then right them a letter it can be annonymous. Let them know , you say you want to help yourself do it. It seems that your husband is not going to, so help yourself you can do it I know you can. Try at least write the letter. You don't have to send right away but, if you truly want to stop this may be the way to go. Just a suggestion. Please come to my thread if you need to talk . hurtin

What is your plan for your recovery?

PS

I am not Tee'd off ..... I am concerned for you.

You offer advice when you should be seeking advice.

You need help. What is your plan for your recovery?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I want you to know that I have written the post below and have been staring at it for a while. I am about to expose myself to you all and I am so scared. I am so scared that you all are going to come back with scathing remarks and hatred...but honestly, you all are all I have right now, so I am going to post this and hope that opening myself up to other people will help me find my way home.

Pep,
OK...I will only post on MY post. (I'm a woman and I can't be quiet...)

Alright...let me tell you what I did. I don't think any of you will be prepared for what I am about to tell you...so prepared to be shocked.

I saw a counselor for two years who basically told me that I would never be faithful to any man (although I had been faithful to my H for the first 10 years) and that I should divorce my H and the OM and go have a good time. I really HATE that woman.

My A got deeper. I would rationalize that the time wasn't right. I would rationalize that I had already wasted so much of OMs life and I felt guilty. I kept thinking he would dump me eventually. And here it is over 5 years later and I am still in the midst of it. And he hasn't dumped me.

There were two times over the years that he wanted out, and I am ashamed to say that at those times I freaked out and panicked at the thought of being without him so I "won him back". I had my chance at freedom twice and I blew it. I cried for days about it cuz it could have been over then.

OK...and you want to know how deep this thing goes? I AM LIVING WITH THE OM! I am living with HIM and MY HUSBAND. TWO DIFFERENT HOUSEHOLDS. My life is a lie! I lie to my H who sticks his head in the ground, though I am sure he still has his suspicions. I lie to the OM who thinks I am separated. And all the while I have no life. I can't have babies...obviously. I can't go on a real vacation - how would I explain to the one I don't go with. It's amazing to me that it's gone on so long.

And all the while I try to tell myself that I am protecting OM from being hurt. But what I want in my heart is to go back to my H and have a whole life.

My life is intertwined with the OMs, though over the last year I have been "untying" some of the things. I set him up in a business of his own. I've done some things that have trapped me. BUT, I have severed my involvement in some of the things that had me tied to him. I quit the "hobby" that I was doing with him (that I met him at).

So, my plan has been this so far:
1) Start untying the things that have been binding me to him
2) I had a coaching session with Dr. Harley's daughter (she told me she couldn't help until I ended A.)
3) I'm looking into the Employee asssistance program at work to find a counselor - one that believes in saving marriages

That's it. I have written the letter to end my affair with OM (got the ideam from Plan A). Here it is:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Dear OM,

This is, by far, the most difficult thing I have ever done. I am going back to my H.

Let me start by saying that my decision to go back to my H is not based on anything you did or didn&#8217;t do &#8211; I have just come to realize that I cannot get a divorce&#8230;and if I cannot get a divorce, then I need to set you free. I love you very much, and the most selfish thing I can do is keep you hanging on.

I know that this will hurt you&#8230;that is not my intention, nor has it ever been. I have done a very selfish thing by having an affair and then letting it continue. I am in the wrong. I have been the one wrong all along.

In the Bible, true love is described in Greek as &#8220;agape love&#8221;. Agape love is love that seeks the highest good for the person that you love. How have I shown you the &#8220;highest good&#8221;? I haven&#8217;t. The highest good, not just for me and not just for my H, but even for you, would be to have never had an affair. But I did, so the next highest good would be to end that affair and go back to my husband and fulfill the covenant vow that I made to him. I know that you may not understand what I am about to say, but when you take your vows as husband and wife, you go in with a bit of security that says &#8220;we made this vow to each other and I know that no matter what, he will not leave me and I will not leave him. That is one thing you should be able to bank on.&#8221;

Now think about how much I have hurt you by saying that I am not going to be with you anymore. I have not stood up before God and everyone and made the statement to you that I would be bound to you forever. Realizing how much you are hurting, can you imagine how much my H would hurt if I left him forever?&#8230;multitudes more!!! Because I broke a sacred vow to him.

If it is any consolation to you, I am going back to my H and I will be with him&#8230;faithful&#8230;til the day I die. I am not leaving to go to someone else &#8211; I never want to hurt anyone the way I have hurt you. I will go back to my H and I will be faithful and true, I will be a good wife, and I will live my life in honest, open way that does not require lies and secrets. I will make you proud.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wrote that letter two months ago. Obviously I have not given it to him yet.

So...that is my story.

Jaref,

Why haven't you given it to him? I'm really trying to understand you, which having been betrayed, is not easy to do. If you love your husband and truely feel guilty for what you have done, then fix it!

Go home to your husband and spend the rest of your life making him and yourself the happiest you possibly can be!

You either want to be true to your vows or you don't. I'm sorry I can't see it any other way. I have read the term cake eater on this site many times... and I really think that is your problem. You don't really want to give either of them up and as long as they don't know about each other you don't have to.

I really don't mean to sound harsh, as I do have to admit I admire you for coming here and sharing your story, but it is time to choose!

Wow- What a story.

I just have a couple of points for what its worth.
The original counselor you had was totally screwed up. Hello - you were faithful to your husband for 10 years which proves you can be faithful if you wish.

I cannot believe that you have pulled this off that your husband does not know you are living with the OM and the OM does not know that you are not separated.

Clearly this is tearing you apart and will eventually emotionally destroy you if you keep this up. My advise would be to give this last message you have just written and give it both to your husband and your OM. You need to end this nightmare once and for all. Let them choose who they want and let yourself choose. You own them both honesty especially your husband. If your husband does not care well then maybe you have your answer. Do you really want to live your life like this? Like I mentioned previously I can only imagine the pain you must suffer on holidays like christmas and your annivarsaries. You are doing this to yourself and you and only you can end this if you truly want to. Do you want to have a family and feel good and positive in a loving relationship or do you want to spend the rest of your life cheating on the men who love you. Again you are the captain of your ship. Be honest and open with both men. Imagine living a life where you have nothing but honesty and respect toward yourself and the man you love. You can this if you really want to. Your life and happiness is in you hands. Be honest and open. As a famous man once said: "Only the truth can set you free".
I wish you the best.

Hi JareF,

First thing first

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I saw a counselor for two years who basically told me that I would never be faithful to any man (although I had been faithful to my H for the first 10 years) and that I should divorce my H and the OM and go have a good time. I really HATE that woman. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is an awful thing to say.

Second, How do you live with two men? No, don't tell, we don't need to give anyone ideas. I'm not shocked, just amazed you have not fallen to exhaustion and needed to be hospitalized. How long can you continue this before you become ill?

Third - SEND LETTER ending it with OM. What or how you tell him it is over is not as important as telling him it is over and you are going to make your Marriage work. DO IT TODAY. TAKE ANY BELONGINGS YOU HAVE AT HIS HOME AND TAKE THEM HOME. OR JUST LEAVE THEM BEHIND. DON'T LOOK BACK. DO IT, DON'T THINK, ABOUT IT. (I'm not screaming at you, I'm using caps for emphasis.)

I know you want to help BS', help your BS and yourself and do this today. I know it will be hard, remember, he is not your concern. Personally, I don't believe in separated people dating, I don't judge them either (I know you are not seperated, but OM believes you are). When dating a separated person, you need to be prepared that they could go back to their marriage. That is the risk one takes when dating a separated person (or one they believe to be separated). If he is not prepared for this happening, that is not your concern.

<small>[ August 18, 2003, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

Thanks sweetie ... that was a BIG ole' step!

GOOD FOR YOU for spewing the whole thing out!

THAT is a step towards your recovery.

You OK now?

Love,

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Jaref ~~~~~

PS

None of us on MB could possibly hate you as much as you hate yourself.

Non of us on MB could possibly hurt you as much as you've hurt yourself.

When you thought I was Tee'd off at you, it's cuz YOU are Tee'd off at you.

Can you see that?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

JareF,

I think Pep, hit it on the head as far as anyone being Tee'd off at you.

We care about you, we see how much you are hurting yourself, how much pain you are feeling. We want you to start feeling good about you, and start to recover.

Thanks, guys.

I have read your replies. I was pretty sick to my stomach after posting the message - was trying to find a way to delete it. It's very scary to share the bad stuff...to open it up for someone to stomp on you. I don't mind you all being firm with me. Just keep talking to me. See, you all are the only thing (besides me) telling me to do the right thing. No one else knows, so no one else can tell me anything.

Just know that what you are saying does not go in one year and out the other - it all sticks.

I want to give my H a copy of Fall in Love, Stay in Love. He has not seen/read any of the books. Maybe if I give it to him he can Plan A me without ever knowing it.

I just wish my A would die a natural death like most do...just not that lucky, I guess.

If you are going to purchase books for your H to read, I suggest Surviving an Affair (SAA), after you tell him, he and you will need it.

Leave the letter and walk away, don't look back. As cruel as it appears, it is the kindest thing you can do.

<small>[ August 18, 2003, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

Whenever you start a sentence with ... "I just wish ...."

You know you're avoiding reality, don't you?

You said : "I just wish my A would die a natural death ..... "

Hey J~~~~ try mine on....

I just wish my naturally red hair didn't have grey roots! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Doesn't matter what I wish .... I still have grey roots!

Big step today .... good for you!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I too echo the previous posters in their advice, especially BryanP's concern that this is going to destroy you unless you end it. Withdrawl is he** but you are not alone for we (BS and WS) are here to give you all the support you need. Please do it before its too late.

Hi Jaref

That is some story,

If you are hoping the A will die a natural death, IMHO I don't think any I dies a natural death. At anytime after such a "death" it could be started again even if its just a ONS. The only death comes when the BS knows and you both try to work on the marriage. SAA and HNHN are probably a couple of good books for your husband.

When you do decide to give the OM the letter, I would probably leave everything that was there. You don't need any reminders, it might help with your recovery and your M recovery.

I might add one more thing to your letter.

"Please respect my decision, to make it easier on both of us I cannot have anymore contact with you. Please don't try, I need to work on my marriage and on myself."

I think a NC statement is needed. Then it would be up to you to follow it.

God will give you the strength, he will give you peace. He will give you freedom, and he will carry you home.

Good Luck and God Bless

Hi Jare Im so proud of you, I told you , you could do it. Now the hardest part just pack your bags, and leave the letter behind. Walk away from the unhappiness , and into a life of happiness. YOu deserve to be happy, and so does the other man,, Yes he will hurt but you are also hurting. Your husband as well. You are a smart lady, and Im telling you you are half way there. Take that giant step forward and do what your heart is telling you to do. No stepping back or you will surely fall . come on jar you can do it!! My kids watch a tv program that says Can we do it Yes WE can , and so can you... My prayers are with you.. Hurtin

JareF,

How are you today?

Once you do this, you will feel better in some ways. You will feel relieved. In other ways, you will feel bad. That will pass.

I'm cool.

No...I haven't done the deed yet. Honestly, it's very scary...but I know it can't be any worst than my H finding out. I'd rather end the A on my own, then start working on us.