Pep~

Thank you, it means a lot coming from you. Hope it helps Jaref.

Have a nice evening.

~aut

Aut I also want to give you a hand , that was some awesome advise that you gave our friend jared. Its people like you and pep, and others that make things so much easier for people like me to understand. I hope that your thread did help jared I have been so worried about her. I also hope that things are better for you and your relationship with your husband. God Bless you for adding your 2 cents. Hurtinhart

I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to reply to the posts...but PLEASE know that even though I haven't posted, I am online everyday and I do read what you all write to me.

AutumnDay,
That really was a beautiful post full of hope and grace. I have read and reread what you have written.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> you don't have to get rid of the "in love" feeling for him in order to end the A. If you wait around for that, it will probably never happen. You just have to END the A regardless of your feelings. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I absolutely hear what you are saying here...and truly, that is the hardest part. "You just have to END the A regardless of your feelings." It is truly terrifying.

I know that I do not have to go back to the same marriage that I had - I know that it can be better. I get so tired, though. ANything that ever has to be done I have to be the "lead dog" on. After all, who is at MarriageBuilders? Me or BS? ME! It's frustrating, but I guess I just need to accept that that is part of his personality. ...and yet, he has so many endearing qualities.

...END the A regardless of your feelings. If I do that I will be one STRONG woman when it is all over.

I have prayed and prayed. I know that God has not left me, I sense he has been protecting me for a long time. But I think sometimes he isn't listening. I prayed and prayed for him to send someone to me to help me. He did not...so I came to MarriageBuilders. I thank you all for your friendship, honesty, and advice. I believe you ARE making a difference in my life, and I believe that I will do the right thing.

Hi jaref, Im so glad you are still coming in to check up on things, you said
I prayed and prayed for god to send someone to me to help me (you said he did not) I feel he did . He sent you to mb and here you have found people who care enough to try and help you get through this very difficult time in your life. Im here for you . And Iknow lots of others are also.

Hurtin

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Anything that ever has to be done I have to be the "lead dog" on. After all, who is at MarriageBuilders? Me or BS? ME! It's frustrating"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is interesting that you say this because this is usually the BS lament when it comes to marital recovery with a WS going through withdrawl that doesn't want to contribute to it. But be that as it may, life is not fair (as BOTH you and your H can attest to) and if you want to save your marriage then you are going to have to set aside your resentment and be, as you say, 'the lead dog'.

Yea, I guess I need to quit whining.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

((( Jaref )))

I wear a button on my work coat .... a button that says "whining" and has a big red line drawn through it .... I wear it to remind myself ... but, if my patients look at it ... that's OK too ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Push yourself a little J .... you've gotten a little lazy with the safety net of your affair.

How can you really learn to dance WELL if you never settle on one partner?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ August 26, 2003, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jaref:
<strong>Yea, I guess I need to quit whining.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Woof! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hi Jaref~

So glad to come home, and see that you've still been around the board, that is great news!

Your description of ending the A as being terrifying is one of the things I had in mind when I told you I couldn't totally relate to your situation. My P forced me back to reality, but quick. I had too many other things to terrify me in the form of all issues regarding an unconfessed A/OC, my H, my M, my other children, etc...

Telling the om it was over was the least of my worries, I wasn't terrified, it was a pretty swift decision for me. It was downright painful though.

Following through with no contact was NOT so easy, so please don't think I am some saintly ws, (I'm thinking those adjectives aren't able to go together anyway...lol) who easily said goodbye, and quickly jumped on the right path, (not the least of which...I didn't confess the A/OC to my H for another 2 1/2 months)!! I've never seen x-om since ending the A. However,phone contact, email, and a bit of im'g continued for another month and 10 days after the initial "good-bye". All that did was keep me from moving on, and getting rid of those "in love" feelings sooner. So, at that point, I forced myself to END ALL CONTACT.

I thought I was sailing along pretty well. Finally confessed to my H. H forgave me quickly. H wanted me, OC, and M. H has NEVER brought up the A beyond d-day, saying he just wants us to move from this point forward, (even though I've told him repeatedly I will tell him any and all that he wants to know). We both began working on getting the M we always wanted, but never had.

Yet, with the circumstances I just described, all the while working on our M, and getting back my love for my H, I missed x-om, I hurt, I was in withdrawal. Still, I resisted any temptation to call him. Four months after complete NC, (5 weeks after d-day) following an argument with my H in a public place, in front of our children, feeling hurt, and wanting to run, I called a number I knew I would only receive x-om's voice mail, but I wanted to hear his voice. I've made no form of contact since that night.

I apologize for going on about my story, but I wanted to show that even after a relatively short A, NC is difficult. You have a tremendously daunting road ahead of you. However, I can't stress enough how crictical NC is. Even though I only heard x-om's voice that evening and left no message, I believe that was still contact, and it set me back for a time. I honestly don't know how any ws can continue to work and live in the same environment as the op and restore their M. Yet, I guess as I've seen on here, it has been done. It would not be my recommendation at all!!

Ending the A is the easy part, sticking to the NO CONTACT is the hard part. That is why I stressed it in my previous post to you, and again on this one.

Getting back to your ending the A being "truly terrifying". I am wondering, are you terrified of ending it while still being "in love"; terrified of om's reaction; the actual verbalizing to him "it's over" part; the fact that it has been 5 years (ending anything that has gone on that long is difficult at best); knowing you will be without him, or all of the above?

I would like to address your comments regarding you doing the work, you and not your H being here on the MB site, etc, etc, but my H just got home from work, gotta go finish dinner. Lucky you!!!

Quickly though...what you said about God. That's wonderful you are praying and praying. You are one step ahead of where I was before ending the A. I didn't talk to God once during my A. I didn't even pray for my children!! I knew my guilt, knew He saw my guilt, I didn't feel I could even begin to approach his throne, and was embarrassed to do so. I knew He was there, waiting for me, but I also knew I was the one that had walked away from Him. I needed to take the step toward Him. I may step on some toes of people who don't think like this, but I believe until I repented my sin of the A to God, He wasn't exactly in the listening mood to any of my requests. I may be way off base here, but I tell you, once I repented, I felt a freedom to approach Him with all of my wants, needs and desires. I could tell he was listening too.

I believe He DID answer your prayer of sending someone to help, it just wasn't in the form you requested, nor probably on your timeline. He did prompt you to find this site. It has a wealth of information on it. In terms of the posters on here, although they are not friends you can sit and talk with over a cup of coffee, you have heard, and will continue to hear great advice from people who truly care about you.

Ok, H just said he is going to begin a junk food binge if I don't get off the pc. He knows my buttons!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I apologize if this is a jumbled up mess of a post.

Take good care,
~autumnday

<small>[ August 26, 2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am wondering, are you terrified of ending it while still being "in love"; terrified of om's reaction; the actual verbalizing to him "it's over" part; the fact that it has been 5 years (ending anything that has gone on that long is difficult at best); knowing you will be without him, or all of the above? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All of the above. Mostly, I think I am scared of hurting OM. I can't explain it. I know that he knew going in that a cheating W probably wouldn't leave her H...but it has been so long. ANd truly, he is imbedded in my life (the half I let him have). Selfishness on my part.

Jaref,

Could you clarify abit your living situation? You keep aluding to the fact that you live with both OM and H. How have you managed to arrange your life in this regard? I think it would useful to me and perhaps others to have a better understanding of this so that we could offer advice this more in tune with your situation.

God Bless,

JL

J

You are hurting the three of you already.

Enough of excuses. Aren't you tired of your own defensiveness yet?

"I don't want to hurt OM" ... but you are hurting him already ... so stop!

Hurting someone by telling him the truth .... go for it.

You are a living breathing woman .... not a child.

Time to grow up. .... or not. You can continue to whine for another decade ... not getting any younger are you?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Yal kept asking that question and I kept hoping yal would forget about it. I want you to know that I am VERY embarassed to be writing this part to you all. Of my family, I have one sister that knows about this, but she does not ask for details (mostly cuz she's caught up in raising her kiddos).

Well, As you know the A has gone on for a long time. I was working 2nd shift and so was my H. Then he got moved to days. I was sad at first, til I realized the enormous freedom I got to be with OM. (I am not saying any of this to be rude...I am being as honest as I can be with you all.) So, I started spending more time with him. Then occasionally I would "go out with the girls" so I could stay out all night. (My H to this day still has no idea who "the girls" are.)

Well, after that my job sent me to another state for 4 days. At this point the most I had ever been apart from my H was one night at a time (to be with OM). Before that we had never been apart. Well, as I was out of state I came to the "realization" that it would be much more convenient if my "job" made me travel more often. So more lies came.

It got to where I was spending so much time with OM that OM finally asked me if I was living with him! I said "no", not yet. But close. Well, there came a time when OMs lease was due to be signed again, and before I knew it we were "moved in together". That was last October.

I "travel" alot. It's easier to lie to my H than it is to OM. So, in essence, I lie to both of them. H knows nothing. OM thinks I am separated. And since I am "living" with him, you all do realize, don't you, that I am NOT in the fantasy part of it. By that I mean, I don't "idealize" OM anymore - I do see him for what he is. Belching, farting, overweight, lazy, etc (I see other things, too...just trying to make yal understand that I don't put him on a pedestal like I did in the beginning of the a)- I get to see all the "good" stuff in him just like you would see with a H.

OM has pressured me for years to get a D, and it is becoming more frequent. And I can't seem to look him in the eye and tell him "I can't get a D. I don't want to get a D. It has nothing to do with you. It's nothing you have done or not done. It is me. And if I can't D my H, then I need to let you go."

OK...before you all start "lashing" me, YES, I DO KNOW HOW SICK THIS IS. You don't have to point it out.

I have wanted to end the A for years, but I get scared to let OM go. I am working on accepting that you all say it is an addiction. NC seems to be the only way any addiction is broken.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Your life will waste away doing what you are doing.

So scared.

So afraid.

So timid.

So empty.

Have you ever seen a psychiatrist? You might have something called boarderline personality disorder .... there are different degrees of the disorder.

It might help you if you explored the possibility a little bit. It's nothing to be ashamed of ... having a mental disorder. Maybe get it checked out?

Don't be offended. My family is affected by mental illness, and it is like having any other problem. It gets diagnoised, then treated.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you ever seen a psychiatrist? You might have something called boarderline personality disorder .... there are different degrees of the disorder.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What exactly is it?

How do I go about seeing a psychiatrist to find out? I have an HMO so I have to see a primary doc first...what would I tell them?

But still...I don't want to use that as an excuse. It might help me understand more about me and figure out a way to get out of this situation. But still, it has been my choice all along.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't be offended. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No offense taken.

Call your primary and ask if you could be evaluated by a shrink.

Does your doc know about your double life?

If no.... tell him/her.

Pep

Can't tell Doc about double-life - H uses same Doc. (I know there is supposed to be "confidentiality"...however, I do not think these particular docs are that bright.) I'll figure something out.

I sort of read a bit on BPD...I didn't see where it would describe me, but then again, it's probably not good to self-diagnose.

OK, Jaref,

I see so many issues now. It might be wise for you to see a Doc., but what seems evident to me is you need HELP. I don't mean medical, I mean emotional help and support to work your way out of this mess.

You really do need a plan and an approach to deal with this. I can see where leaving the OM might be "easy", but ending your "traveling" and then telling your H what really happened is going to be very hard.

Your H is going to feel like a complete fool.

You know I think the best person to help you out would be one of the Harley's. You may not appreciate the difference in their approach but they "coach" people in how to deal with their issues and help them to develop a plan of action. I think you are going to need a lot of moral support to pull this off.

Of course if you wait, long enough your H will probably find out and do things for you like leave. And if you sit on the fence long enough, OM will get tired of this and move on. You WILL lose out.

I know it sounds attractive for someone else to make your decisions for you, but I can assure you that is NOT what you want.

Is there anyone there that you can confide in and help guide you and support you? A clergy man/woman, someone? The people here will do their best, but you will probably need someone to act as an intermediary occasionally and someone you can call and receive a long hard talking to.

I am wondering if this shouldn't be a two step process. Move out of OM's place into some other place for a few weeks, so that you can start through withdrawal, and then end "your traveling" and come home to H full time.

I know understand why you don't have any friends or much of a social life. You truely sold yourself short on this one, it is so sad.

Must go, give what I and others have said some thought.

God Bless,

JL

Jaref,

I decided to add another post before you even see my first post. Your situation really bothers me because it is going to be such a mess to extricate yourself from it. The more I have thought about it, and more strategies I have considered the more I am reminded of the KISS technique. KISS, in case you don't know is, Keep it Simple Stupid. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I use this approach often.

I am thinking that the only way that will work without telling even more lies and hurting yourself more, is really going to be ta da: radical honesty.
Going to your H and telling him what is going and telling what is in your heart. It may not work or it may work, but it seems to my feeble brain that any other way will probably just cause more pain and suffering.

I do think that if you did decide to do this, having already set up counseling or someone for you and your H to talk to would be a show of your sincerity. I may be wrong there.

Just another random thought.

God Bless,

JL

JL,
I agree about the emotional help. I have really weaved a tangled web.

See, I believe in radical honesty now (believe it or not)...I just haven't figured out the way to apply it. All this came after reading SAA and His Needs, Her Needs. But as I told you, I have confessed twice to my H of my A - both times while still being in the A.

See, I think that if I end A (NC) and THEN start working on M for a month or so and then suggest the MarriageBuilders weekend, I think he will be willing to deal with what I have done a lot more easily than if I come back with the same, tired crap again. I mean, nothing has changed...why would he believe this 3rd time would be different? I want to give him a reason to BELIEVE it is different. That's why I want to end the A first.

Also, the thing with my H is that he wanted details last time and I wasn't willing to give them to him. I believe that if I end A, start being different for a month or so by fulfilling his EN, then suggest MB weekend, I don't think he will ever WANT all the details - but that's only if he has already seen changes. I would be WILLING to tell him everything, but if I were already on the road to proving that I am a loving woman and am open and honest in all things, I think he will want to just move on. I mean, I have EVERY intention of telling him that the A went on longer than he thought. I will answer all questions. I do not want to keep anything from him.

I can't get out what I am trying to say right. In a nutshell, I WILL tell him about A. I will answer all questions he has with radical honesty. But I think ending the A first will prove that I am different and ready to do whatever it takes. But again, I am telling you that I WOULD tell him everything he wants to know.

So...ending the A. You're right, I need a plan. IF I moved out from OM and stayed somewhere for a few weeks I would have to have someone close to me to keep me accountable. I will begin looking for someone now. I don't go to church anymore, but my H and I have a friend in the ministry who might be able to help me find a woman to be accountable to who might be willing to help me.

Withdrawal is going to be VERY difficult, so I like the idea of moving some place else during the withdrawal.

Again, I am terrified. My MIND wants to go home and havethe M we always dreamed of. But I won't lie, my FEELINGS do not want to leave OM. And yet, I know it is the right thing to do.

I remember the first time I told my H about A. I didn't think he would forgive me, so I was basically ready to move in with OM. When my H said he wanted me to stay, I became confused. My H said he saw the turmoil and confusion in me. He said I looked lost....said he had never seen anything like it in his life.

ANyway, I am babbling. Honestly, this is the first time I have felt HOPE in a long, long time.