I am so tired I can barely see but I need to write these things out. It helps to put the confusion and the swirling thoughts on paper, so to speak.

My husband and I spoke for about two hours last night. I had read enough about Plan A to know that I shouldn't yell at him (I'm not normally the yelling type) or to make ultimatums. Honestly, I had more questions than ultimatums. We agreed to sit down and talk. I was shaking with emotion and he cried quite a few times.

I asked him how this happened. What was wrong in our marriage that forced him to turn to someone else?

I have been reading so many posts on this board and I know many of you struggle to get your husbands to be honest. My ace in the hole is the email collection. There is no way in the world he can pretend that this relationship with that woman is anything less than what it is. I already KNOW the truth. Now I need to find out the truth of our marriage.

He told me that they started as colleagues. He had no intention of cheating or falling in love. They were colleagues for almost two years before it heightened. He said they worked together on a project and there was a "click" between them that made it easy to talk. He kept saying over and over that he never intended to hurt me or our family.

I asked him why it was easier to talk to her than to me. He was dumbfounded. He said he didn't know why, but that there was a click with her that made it easy. They shared the same ideas about so many things and had the same interests and he didn't think of it as anything more than a friendship in the beginning.

I asked him very quietly why he thought it was OK to screw another woman without telling me. He didn't have an answer.

He kept saying that he loves his family. I asked him what that means. He says he loves his family and doesn't want to hurt his family.

I told him I am a woman, not just a wife, and that his family included the children. I asked him to be very clear in explaining how he loves two women.

All he could say was that he loves me as his wife and mother of his children and doesn't want to hurt me. I asked him if his love for her is different. He said yes, it's different. He repeated that I am the woman who gave him his two beautiful children and he doesn't want to hurt me.

I asked him what he wants to do. He didn't know. I didn't push him farther than that. I remained as calm as I could and we hugged each other and cried and he left. He is not staying with us at home right now.

I do not want to be someone's wife and mother of his children. I want to be the one woman he loves because of who I am. I know I need to read so much more so I don't do anything stupid right now. I'm tired and need to sleep again.

Has anyone else heard this from their husband?
I am quivering with rage. How DARE he do this to us??? How DARE he think it's OK to have this secret life where he falls in love with someone else and believe he is PROTECTING me HAH!!! by not telling me????????!!!

I am sorry if this sounds mean, but please don't tell me that his relationship with that woman is a fantasy. If you had the emails I have read, you would know different. I need to understand the REALITY so that I know how to proceed.

Has anyone ever heard this? We've ALL heard this. This is typical. Have you read "Surviving an Affair"? If not, get it, and read it. His answers fit the most typical pattern, frankly. You don't have to have something missing in your marriage to fall in love w/ someone else, you just have to spend enough time with that someone else, and not have the boundaries in place to avoid it.

<small>[ August 20, 2003, 07:07 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

I'm reading it, and other books right now. Thank you.

Being aware of issues that you are facing- is the first step in making things better.

There is much support to get, here and in counseling. Reading, and sharing with your WS is helpful. And time, patience, protection, and care are key elements to heal.

Hang in there girl. It will be ok in time.

Keep writing in here and express your feelings. It does help to write and to clarify things.

Hello Never, I'm Karena, and I've heard you, experienced and still experience what you are feeling and want to tell you that you are NOT alone. You made the right step in coming on MB because you are like many of us; alone, humiliated, rejected, etc., etc....yet, when you put everyone together sharing experiences, it is almost (not quite) but almost tolerable enough that you can get through it. But trust me, right now it is the most crucial and critical time because emotions are running high.

I am a BS who was married 13+ years to the love of my life. While it is 10months since my D-Day (and the love is till there believe it or not), there are days where I am angry, sad, happy, elated and then back down again. I just want you to know that you are absolutely correct in your behavior and not to question any of the behavior of your spouse...just read and it the remarkable similarities will keep your mouth gaping. I like to refer to "fog behavior" as a script for all wandering spouses...it is scary. The excuses are the same, the behavior almost identical and we BS are forced to stay behind and pick up the pieces of our shattered lives. But the most insane thing, is in spite of the betrayal, some of us (me especially) try to pick up the pieces of our spouses life as well and try to reconcile why they did it.

While I never realized in the beginning, a great deal of what your spouse is doing is purely selfish. Like a child pacified by candy, it is the sweetness that they first crave and savor. The niceties, the pretty woman or handsome man who, not saddled with everyday responsibilities such as house, bills, children, look so extraordinary. Yet, when this tainted relationship (yes, built out of deceit) is exposed to the world, it is not to nice anymore. It is not hidden, opinions and feelings become more "open to everyone" and the once sweet candy is now causing a horrible toothache. I never quite understood this until I started Plan B. I thought, hey, "My husband loves this woman, what am I going to do." Of course, this wasn't realized as a sweet or demure revelation, but rather an angry and rejected feeling. But you know, when I stopped blaming me and blamed his behavior on his selfishness, it became a bit easier to tolerate. Laughingly, I look at myself as being a "controlling" individual and yes, that contributes. I too scream to get my point across; the louder you get the more "right" you believe you are, but in Plan B...I haven't screamed or yelled (not even 1/4 of what I used to) and it works. But I'm not here to brag about Plan B, but rather to explain that you are not alone.

Husband is in the "fog" as the MBers like to call it here. Oh God, he is in love...she is his soulmate, the love of his life, the woman who understands him, his wants and his needs. Remember way back when, you were that woman as well. He is being admired, it is sordid and illicit and now, you know...it is time for you to sit back and watch how the love of his life now becomes a demon who sheds her cloak of disguise. My H was the most honest man that I have ever met; sometimes to the point I wish he learned the art of little white lying. I could trust him with my life, and he was a fantastic father. While we experienced marital problems which I recognized as common, he thought otherwise. He felt trapped, controlled, manipulated, etc. I asked the same question, "Why did you turn to another woman?" You know, ten months later, I still do not have any answers and you know what, I don't want them. It's not about him anymore, it is about me, and how "we" can manage this.

While the fate of my marriage is still up in the air, I've truly grown from this experience, as will you. You may stay together (which I pray) or you may not, but you will learn and the mistakes of the present, will become the lack of in your future. I've seen my husband who was totally devoted to me and our children, forget about us and our needs. I ranted and raved, and you know what..to no avail. Now, 10months later we are trying to put the pieces back to our marriage. He is living with the OW (which kills me). Yet, while in Plan B, I want him to know that if he comes back to me it is because he makes the decision and he wants to. I used to beg and threaten, scream and yell, and like I said, when they are in a fog, it is no good.

Just take this one bit of advice....when the fog lifts, it is just as insane a period as the revelation. The vacilating, the uncertainty and the waiting. Be strong, be confident and find peace that it is now in the open and a new chapter in your life will now begin. I wish you all the luck in the world and know you will be okay.

Neversuspected,
I'm sorry you have to go through this. Nobody should have to. My wife left me a little over a month ago. I went through what you are going through and still have a lot of bad days. I have some good ones also, but I know eventually I will get over this. I've been married for almost 17 years and our marriage slowly became very average. There wasn't a lot of communication. I became somewhat comfortable with my life, but my wife wasn't comfortable and this made things easier for the affair. I'm by no means justifying her affair, but I also know if our marriage was what it should have been, she wouldn't have done this. Honestly, before all this I couldn't say that I loved my wife. I couldn't say, I'd do anything to keep her here with me. But I've learnded alot. I've come to understand how complacent I'd become and that marriage takes more work than I thought. I know now that I love her. She started out having an EA which led to a PA. For the first couple weeks after D-day, all I could do was picture them together and I was very angry, hurt, sick to my stomach and I thought I could never forgive her for this. I started reading and praying about all of this. In this short time, I've come to realize, I can't change what happened and I had a choice to either dwell on the past or work on the future. I picked the future. I have forgiven my wife for her weakness. Until I did that, I was at turmoil with myself. I know I've somehow changed from all this, I'm a better person. I'm not saying I don't still feel some pain, anger, and hurt, but it is not like it was at first. I'm taking it one day at a time. She still is with the OM, but I hope one day she will return and we can have a marriage that we can both be proud of. I know my wife is ashamed of what she did and she has told me that she thinks my family hates her. But you know what, I don't care what others think, I love my wife and I am proud that she is still my wife. We may never get through this, but I will never be ashamed of her. I will always be proud to be her husband. Before all this, I couldn't honestly say that. Change has to come from both of you. I hope this helps some. I can suggest some good books to read that have helped me - SURVING AN AFFAIR by Willard Harley, HIS NEEDS/HER NEEDS (same author), DIVORCEBUSTING by Michele Weiner-Davis, and RELATIONSHIP RESCUE by Dr Phil. With the stuff I've learned from these books, I started realizing my marriage was a mess and I helped make it that way. I'm not a very religious person, but I've prayed alot during this time and have been comforted. I'm not saying a light came down and I was cured. But I'm slowly getting better with myself and each day I feel a little better about myself which in turn has made my life a little better. Yesterday I actually turned up the radio in my car and "jammed" out on the way home from work. I was almost happy for a change. I hope you can get through this. I know I have a long way to go, but little by little, inch by inch, I get better. Good luck and keep posting. I know this forum has helped me alot also. Another thing I should add, be good to yourself, take care of yourself. You can't change others, but you can change yourself....

Dear Neversuspected

My heart breaks for you. I certainly understand the depth of your anger and broken heart. My H had a 1 year affair. For the past year we've spent back together, he has only now began real no contact with the ow. We were separated for the first 3 months as he planned to D me and marry her.

I have thougth so many times that if only I had known about MB from the beginning of my discovery of his A our attempt at recovery would have been better/easier. I didn't find it until we got back together. I made so many mistakes.

Here you will receive guidance from those who have already traveled down the road you've found yourself forced to walk.

I understand your anger. My H also told me in the beginning that he loved us both. I was a wonderful mother and supported our family all through our marrriage. He told me "I love you, but I'm not "in" love with you anymore." She was the exciting one. That's a bitter pill to swallow. Like you I never saw it coming. I had no clue.

I'm glad you're back home with your children. Reading all you can find is good. Another book that I really like is "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. It's helped me.

I hope you're considering counseling for yourself right now. Do you have close friends to share this with? Talking helped me.

There is hope. My H left me and our 2 children and moved to Europe because of work. He was adamant that he wanted a D to marry her. He left in June. She joined him in Europe the first of Sept. Two days after she arrived and he finally had her with him, he sent her back to the US and called me asking for a 2nd chance.

It's too early for you to have any idea what you want. It's good advice to wait on any decision. Take care of yourself. Try to rest, try to eat, get some exercise.

I'm still working on my Marriage. My H and I still have a ways to go on that road. I can tell by your words that you're a strong woman. You'll survive as bad as it does hurt. Take care and post your frustrations here.

With sincere concern
Marykat

Marykat...your post sounds sooooo familiar....are you sure you aren't living my life....

Neversuspected...this is what I mean about "script" "textbook", etc., etc. They all have the same excuses. To deflect away from their own guilt.

Marykat, the funny thing that you mentioned about "loving" but not being "in love" made me chuckle. I got that one too. I also had the famous, I love you because you gave me two beautiful children, etc., etc. Then, I was bawling my eyes out, begging, pleading and holding on to his shirt as he walked out the door and of our lives. Now, I have to laugh to myself..was I that desperate looking. I also heard the, "you are not sensual". I was at one time and I can be it again..just you wait and see.

Well, my turn to add to this one! I also got an almost identical script from my wife, including the old " I love you, but I'm not in love with you" rubbish.

I'll agree that you sound strong, so you should fair better than some do. I know I suffered badly for a couple of weeks. But it's a case of sink or swim and I think I learned quickly to become a good swimmer.

A bit of advice that I haven't found here is to act happily independent and tell them they're right, it obviously wasn't working. I managed to get to this stagr about 4-5 weeks after D-Day and it totally threw my wife. She didn't say much, but I could see across her face that she was shell-shocked that I wasn't "clingy" and that I was strong enough to get on without her. She was straight on the 'phone to her divorced friend (who I strongly suspect of sponsoring my wife to continue with the A and try to make a go of it with the OM) for a confidential chat, which I suspect was her trying to get reassurance that she was still doing the right thing. Since then, we've got on really well....still moving towards separation, but I can see she's insecure now. It seems being happily independent and agreeing with her has kicked here crutches out from underneath her.

Adam H...for me it took a lot longer to be independent...about 10 months. I had to, in the grand scheme of things not only act independent, but feel it to my very bones. I am an insecure person to start out with, so, I had felt a huge amount of rejection, abandonment and humiliation. When I finally realized that only the marital mis-communication could be partly pinned on me, I shed the guilt that I was the cause of the affair (I harbored this for a very long time). I still cry, have days where I wish it never happened, but you know what, that "I can live without you" is a charm.

Good Luck

neversuspected,
Our D-day was 5 years ago July 3. I could have written your story. Same fog talk, but my H was cruel and cold beyond all belief. I just want to pat you on the back, tell you you handled the conversation with him beautifully, and advise you to take the emails and put them into a locked security box at a bank.

You are extremely fortunate in the sense that the OWH contacted you and gave you the concrete proof of the affair. He is following the best advised actions in ending an EMA. (Exposure)

I empathize with you because my discovery of the EA my H was involved in started when I snooped and discovered a long, warm, emotional several page long handwritten letter to the OW (he worked with her) and realized that he had been writing to this woman for YEARS. I thought that while he sat with the pad on his lap, he was WORKING!

I didn't know who he was any more, I doubted my sanity and my own identity, and our entire courtship and marriage history was now skewed and not at all what I thought we'd been living. I do understand what you're suffering.

You may doubt your sanity. I did. Don't, though. The pain makes you think you've lost your mind.

Thank God for this site! Come here, post, vent, make some friends. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

NS,

Another book to add to your collection is "Not Just Friends", by Shirley Glass. The Harleys recommend it.

It is a huge source of information, especially in workplace affairs. It addresses what your husband is saying and gives you an insight into how these affairs occur and what to do about them.

It sounds like you have your wits about you! Hardest thing for me to remember when I was hurting like you are now it that it's not OK to have AOs (Angry Outbursts). It's listed under love busters in Harley Speak!

One thing that alway sticks in my head is something Steve Harley told me early on. "Safety 1st".

Meaning no one has any excuse for not protecting their spouse from Love Busters. It sounds like you are on the right track.

CSue

double post.

<small>[ August 20, 2003, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: CSue ]</small>