So my husband came home from Canada last night and this morning tried to get into his voicemail at work and discovered someone had tried to get into it but failed too many times and it locked him out and he had to have it reset. He called me and asked me if I knew who would do such a thing. I told him that I thought it would probably be someone he had lied to many times and was hiding things from and that someone is trying to find out the truth because they can't get it from him. I asked him if he thought he knew anyone like that. This was a major LB. He said "why can't you get it through your head that our problems have nothing to do with any other person!"

Last night while he was sleeping he stroked my back, put his arm around me and held me. The last time he did this was three years ago when he was in the midst of an affair. He may be dreaming of someone else.

I don't think it was an LB unless your voice was dripping with sarcasm.

He needs to hear the truth. When he says the other person has nothing to do with it, - well, after being on MB for close to two years now, I think that is about as big a lie as I have ever heard.

He will keep saying it because that is how he keeps from feeling guilty. His mind has created a world where everything is YOUR fault. Since everything is your fault, nothing he does is wrong. You are so bad that he had every right to love someone else.

PURE BUNK.

You are not perfect? Well, well, I suppose he is?

Troubled,
Don't let him get to you. Thing is, that is so hard when you love someone. You look for ways to make him happy, anything, something, to make him smile at you again. You would do almost anything if you thought it would help.

Since when is it OK to chase someone else because you have issues with your spouse? Never!! Please understand what he is trying to do to your mind and don't fall for it.

I know this is hard on you. I know that words don't begin to reflect your feelings. Please know that you can survive this. We don't know what will happen with him, he may come around yet. We just don't know. You can only do the best you can do and that will have to be good enough.

I suggest you work on plan A, but remember it is a plan to separate the WS from the OP, it is not about being a door mat. He still needs to have consequences for the things he does that are wrong.

Here are some links that may help you with plan A.

cerri on plan A

Mthrrhbard on Plan A and natural consequences

Plan A, and who am I ( Pepperband)

Remember that we are not professional counselors. I encourage you to call the Harleys for counseling. They are very good at what they do and their advice is aimed at saving marriages, not just on making divorce easier as so many others seem to do.

I hope you can stand up to your H for a while. I know it is hard to do.

One of the downsides to this forum is that sometimes when you need help so badly, we are off taking care of our own families. If that happens, it's not because we don't care, it's just that we can't always come when we wish. Please know that we do care about you.

I continue to pray for you, and for your H. Don't give up yet, develop a plan and work it for a time. Guard your feelings, plan to fill your time each day so you don't have as much time to worry about this. No matter what happens, it is going to take time, so settle down for a long campaign. Take care of you, your health - get enough sleep. Try to eat right. See your doctor about anti D meds if you need to, it has helped many here to cope. Don't put your life on hold waiting for your H. Continue to live, try to find things to enjoy, to help you be happy.

I wish we could do more.

SS

I ran into an acquaintance of mine and my H's today and he seemed to avoid all discussions relating to my husband which made me wonder if he had some idea about our marital issues. His girlfriend recently did the Ironman with my husband in Canada.

I e-mailed my husband and asked him if he had told her about anything. He said she know something was up with us. I asked him exactly what did he tell her, how much did she know. He said he told her we were having "issues". So I'm sitting at work getting upset because I know my husband lies and I'm wondering what he's telling our friends. So I sent back a couple scorching e-mails asking him if he told her about his girlfreind, his history of infidelity and porn and how it's ruined our marriage. I told him if he is going to say anything at all he might as well tell the whole story. He didn't know what hit him. I said maybe we should make sure all his friends family and boss know the whole story and let's start with the OW's husband. I was raging, I felt like I was a women posessed. I asked him why he let our marriage get ruined, why he never talked to me about how he was feeling and why he has done nothing to make things better. He said it was because he was a horrible person and he screwed up everything and is that what I wanted to hear. I told him that was a cop out and if he was going to feel all better after we divorce. Here's what he said

***"That's not a cop-out. There is nothing that I am going to be able to say that you will accept. Anything less than "let's stay together" is not going to be what you want to hear. I know that. I'm not trying to "plea my case" because I know that you think I f-ed everything up and am
a loser in this. Why didn't I talk to you? I have no idea. I guess I never felt like we were this perfect couple. Never felt like I could
just spill my guts. I don't do that with people - any people.

To answer your other question, I don't know how I'm going to feel. Who
possibly\y could? But I know I can't keep feeling like I have been
feeling. Can't do that."*****

I told him that I know were aren't the perfect couple and that I didn't believe there was such a thing. I asked him just how has he been feeling and here's what he said.

"I have been feeling like I have not been happy for years. I don't look forward to coming home and don't look forward to planning the future. Ijust cannot keep doing this."

Based on his first e-mail, he thinks that I want him to stay in the marriage no matter what. I added an FYI that I had no interest in being in the marriage and dealing with the same crap over and over again and that that we have been and I would only be interested in staying in the marriage if he could make an honest effort at improving things and based on what I've seen I doubted he was capeable of that.

Then he asked if we were going to be able to be civil to each other over the weekend or should we arrange a schedule. He said he wanted to do a few things around the house to get it ready to sell.

How's that for a horrible Friday before a Holiday. Is this normal interaction? Am I screwing up plan "A"? Should we even be in plan A?

It feels like we're on the fast track to divorce right now and I feel out of controll.

I feel like my husband has no love for me whatsoever. At this moment I feel hopeless and I am in complete despair.

Has anyone ever been in a situation like this and recovered?

Yes ... do a search on my user number... posts between june 2001 and jan 2002...

despair was my partner...

What I did...

Read.

Turned to the Lord.

Read.

Went to individual counseling.

Read.

Went to a 'group' @ church.

Still read.

Still in counseling.

Now facilitating the group @ church.

Hon... you have to take your focus OFF your H and what HE is doing. Put it firmly on yourself. Use this time to figure out who you are and what you want to be. Then do it. And, watch your H's head start spinning...

Making changes in YOU will certainly cause change in your marriage (though I can't guarantee which kind... but positive change most usually leads to positive change).

Determine that YOU will END UP healthy and WHOLE no matter what happens in your marriage.

Hugs,
Cali

I don't have time to say much right now. Please don't despair. Cali has been where you are, and has come out the other side with her sainty intact. You can also, but there are things you need to do.

I recommend you stay away from talking about your relationship this weekend. I still recommend you get professional help. Please don't engage him when you are frustrated and angry, because it tends to make things worse for both of you.

I can't think of anything to say that sounds really good for you right now. With how you are feeing words are so hollow.

Please don't give up. Please know that things can and do change for the better.

SS

Part of our problem is that we're having severe financial difficulties right now. This is weighing heavy on me. We will have to stay in the same house until we sell it. I think he feels overwhelmed with the marriage and financial trouble and doesn't see another way out other than to sell the house and divorce the wife. When he talks to me about the relationship he makes it sound like its been horrible the whole time we were together. This is so painfull. I try to get it out of him what is wrong with me or what he wasn't getting from me that he needed and he can't say, only that we're missing something. I'm left in the dark.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I try to get it out of him what is wrong with me or what he wasn't getting from me that he needed and he can't say, only that we're missing something. I'm left in the dark. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">STOP!

Back away.

Give him space.

I know it is hard to stop pushing. I was the queen of pushing and prodding, but, for YOU, you have to stop.

Cali

Hi Troubled,

I replied to you last week on your other thread and have been following your story.

You said:
I feel like my husband has no love for me whatsoever. At this moment I feel hopeless and I am in complete despair.
This is unfortunately so normal, part of it I think is because we don't have any control, we don't know what's going to happen. The life we had with our S was so secure that we don't think or even imagine that they could do something like this to us and when they do, it rips us apart. I used to feel like you hopeless and in despair, I lost 20lbs in three weeks, I looked like a walking skeleton. I couldn't sleep, couldn't eat let alone function for my children. Do not let the hoplessness and despair eat you up. Do not let him do this to you, now is the time to work on saving YOU. If you want to save your marriage you have to save yourself first and put yourself first.

[/B]Has anyone ever been in a situation like this and recovered? [/B]
This is briefly what happened to me: My H had an A with a co-worker, they were great or should I say "best" friends, this friendship built up into something more and an A started. She left her H convinced my H was going to leave me and I also was convince he was going to leave me, although when he said he wanted a Divorce, he was adamant that they weren't having an A, our house was up for sale, we were both looking for places to live. Then, I found this site and another one, I read everything I could get my hands on, I read Dr. Phil's books, whatever I could read that would help me become a better person for myself and my family. Divorce Busters was one of them but I cannot find the webpage address. I thought my Marriage was all but over, my H finally confessed his A to me and for almost 6 long months it was a roller coaster ride, one day we were staying together one day not. The house never did sell <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . We are still living in it together. To answer your question, yes this did happen to me and we did recover and still are. It has been over two years since I found out about the A and to be honest sometimes it's still hard, especially when I see the OW at work as we all work at the same company. But, we did survive and are still surviving. If you are not seeing a therapist, it my be a good idea to find one. Before you can make your marriage healthy, you have to be healthy. It is hard, but well worth the struggle.
Your H is going to make you feel like you're the bad guy, you are going to feel like you're the one who is really crazy, he is going to be angry when you question things or confront him, this is normal because his defense mechanisms are up full force. He is going to transfer everything on to you. Do not second guess yourself, do not forget that they are great manipulators, the best. Please, don't let him do this to you because it is so easy to fall into their trap and believe what they are telling you. I was convinced that I was the one who was crazy, he had me convinced that I was a terrible person. This is what we call here "The FOG". One thing, I can suggest, is start doing things for yourself, do not depend on him. Go out, even if it's for a coffee. Show him that you can survive with or without him. Sometimes this really wakes them up. This is what I did, I would just go to a friend's, or drive in my car and he would wonder what or where I was going, he was so used to me doing everything for him and depending on him. When I started to show some independance it scared him and I think he realized what he could lose and almost lost.

My thoughts are with you, stay strong you can come out of this with a great marriage.

Cali is right about backing off.

You want nothing more than to know what is going on in his mind. You want reasons, you want something concrete to work with.

Remember that he doesn't know the real reasons, he understands what happened even less than you do. The starting place for you right now is to read ,(as Cali also said) - to meet his needs, and avoid LB's. Then when you have a better idea of what really happened (from reading and comparing) you can start working on things.

Again, what you want to do is confront him and get answers. What works the best is to back off and learn so you can do a better job, continue to meet his needs, expose the affair, and so on.

It sounds like you could use the book "love busters" which is what helped me the most. I learned how to communicate with my W in ways that were loving and helpful and it turned our marriage around. It really helps to know what things to avoid, and what things work when you want to talk to your spouse.

I hope you are at the least not getting any worse, and I wish for you to do better.

SS

Thanks guys for all your advice and feedback. It's comforting to know that I'm not alone.

I think I did better today. I went out and ran my errands. I went to the book store to try to find "Love must be tough" but they were out and it was on back order. I've heard some good things from this forum about that book. I've read divorc busting and divorce remedy. I've talked with Penny (Cerri) once and I'm due to speak with her again on Monday. We scheduled that call before we realized it was a holiday so I need to e-mail her and see if we're still on. She seems great!

The down side about today was that my husband was running around like a crazy man doing all little repairs he's been neglecting and running to home depot every hour. This is a man that I haven't been able to insire to do anything around the house for 3 years. Suddenly he's Mr Fix it. It's nice getting things done around the house but depressing to know that his motivation is to sell it and divorce.

I just came from the park by our house. Many of the neighbors congregate there with there dogs in the early evenings and we always bring ours. I went alone this evening and one of our neighbors invited us to there house for dinner tomorrow evening. They have a block party every year. He was talking about how the block has "suffered great losses" this year. He and his wife told me about 5 or 6 neighbors that got divorced. I was cringing inside. Our neighbors don't know of our troubles and I would feel very awkward discussing it with them. I don't want them to know.

Have a great evening everyone!

here's another thing i've been thinking about lately that's bugging me. Recenlty, within about the past month or two, my husband has struck up a relationship with his younger sister again. She lives clear across the country but they have been talking to each other quite a bit during the day (not when I'm around). I've never felt this sister has supported our marriage and I believe she is giving advice to my hasband right now. This is a woman that is engaged to be married to a man she started seeing while he was still married. He left his wife for her and she's convinced she saved him from a horrible marriage. Now she is one of my husbands advisors. Great!

Penny will help you to know what to do and to stay focused on things that will help.

I think talking to her is one of the best things you could do to help your marriage.

One of the worst things to cope with is the bad feelings you have. When they come, you want reasurance so you ask your H questions or you want to talk to him. He feels like you are bothering him and won't talk. You feel like you deserve answers and push harder.

As Cali said, that doesn't do any good. The absolute worst time to talk is when you feel the worst. It is hard to be objective, it is hard to talk with out LB's. We hate to bring this up because it is so hard for all of us too, but stay away from talking when you are upset. Learn to talk when you can control your feelings and lead the conversation in productive directions. Learn to difuse the angry and mean comments that he comes up with so the conversation can be productive. Penny can give you help with this.

You are on a very difficult road, and it may be a long one too. Please settle in for a difficult journey, but one that can be very rewarding. Use this time to learn, and improve yourself as well as to get your marriage back on track.

I hope you are sleeping at night. I hope you can cope with the feelings that come to you. Whenever you feel like everything is crashing down on you, just wait. These bad feelings never last forever, and they will pass. Just don't do any thing drastic during these times. Stall if you have to, but stay away from decision making when you are really down.

Hope to see you doing better soon.

SS

Hello folks,
Most of the time, I'm ok. but tonight, for some reason, I have an unshakable feeling of loneliness. Being in the house with someone that doesn't care about you is extremely lonely. Knowing that the last 13 years of your life has been a lie is very lonely. I went walking the neighborhood this evening. I guess hoping some neighbors might be outside. I just feel like I need to connect with a real human being.

Part of me wants to be done with this. I want to make it as quick as possible, like pulling a Band-Aid off. This is the part of me that sees how broken my husband is and fears that he will never be capable of a true reconciliation, he doesn't know what love is and any efforts by me to stay with him will only serve to prolong my suffering. The other part of me desperately, quietly, clings to hope for a miracle.

He got quite a lot done around the house to get it ready to sell this weekend. He is quite inspired to dissolve our family. This is painful to go through. There's no stopping this train that's headed for divorce. I've been planning for my life without him. Thinking about where I will live, my finances, my goals for future. I know I'll be ok eventually. Right now, I just feel so lonely. I guess everyone here has been through that feeling. I guess that's whey we're all here.

Have a good evening!

Your story has inspired me. I don't think I have it quite so bad. Now is a time to reflect on the good things in your life. Granted, I am no MC, I do know life should be a happier place. Unfortunately, I can't ease your pain, I can't even ease my own. I too, have started preparing for the worst, hoping for the best. Just make sure the cup is half full, not half empty.

One thing I have learned is not to push the issue, it only will push the other away further. It sucks that the other in this case is "hell bent" for divorce, but there still is hope. That's what god gave us; HOPE. Our right to happiness is hope and do not let anyone take that away. In a way, that makes us vulnerable, but a better and more positive person. Don't forget, confidence is everything, and I mean EVERYTHING!! I am speaking from a guy's point of view. Display it like your National Flag because it is your right, and believe me, guys freak out.

Personally, I just want to be normal again and not worry about who's in control, because underneath it all, I don't give a ****. Unfortunately, it is obviously something that more than just me experiences and so we have to deal with it.

I wish you the best of luck and it is my opinion that you keep your chin up as well as your guard. Nothing sucks more than having your wife have more confidence than you (speaking from a man's pov). Obviously things are not no peachy in my life or I would not be posting on this at 2:15 AM on a worknight.

Nothing but the best, RIVERDOG!!

Love and kisses

sorry, double post.

<small>[ September 02, 2003, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: troubled1 ]</small>

Hi,
Today my husband asks me what realtor we should go through. He wants to put the house up for sale right away. I tell him I can't talk about this right now at work.

I don't want to be coorporative with this stuff. It's not what I want, but I can't really not be coorporative.

I'm just sick about it. It's all happening so fast.

What do I do?

I had a pretty substantial post started to you and then I had a visitor in my office and when I brought the MB screen back up I lost it all. My time is pretty much gone now, so I hope someone else will chime in on this one.

What do you want to do? What would you like to see happen?

SS

<small>[ September 02, 2003, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

What do I want to do? What would I like to see happen? Those are very good questions. Some days I would like to turn to dust and dissapear, other days I would like to leave him in the dust and never look back and sometimes I would like to see if we can regain some love and some assemblance of a marriage. But what I would like to do and what I feel in my heart are likely outcomes are two different things.

My husband has discovered this board and has apparently read all my posts. I feel very naked at the moment. I just feel like leaving him...today. I wish he would read the board and take some things to heart and learn something from it but instead he's just running. He thinks that marriage is supposed to be these fairy love feelings forever. He said we are just "two different people". Isn't that just rediculous!? Of course we are two different people. I'm sorry for venting. I'm just sooo frustrated.

My emotions have just been running the gammit.

Uuuuhg!

Hi T,
I have been thinking about you and wondering what to say. If I said you were in a hard spot, that would be qite an understatement, wouldn't it.

.........But what I would like to do and what I feel in my heart are likely outcomes are two different things.

Often we don't know what will happen. It seems like everyone has a time in their life when something happens that defines the rest of their life by how they cope with it. This may be that time for you. It is up to you to figure out what is right, and do that, no matter what the outcome.

My husband has discovered this board and has apparently read all my posts. I feel very naked at the moment. I just feel like leaving him...today. I wish he would read the board and take some things to heart and learn something from it but instead he's just running. He thinks that marriage is supposed to be these fairy love feelings forever. He said we are just "two different people". Isn't that just rediculous!? Of course we are two different people. I'm sorry for venting. I'm just sooo frustrated.

I wanted to comment yesterday, but the words just wouldn't come. I am sorry to leave you in the middle of the hurt. My experiance is that two people can have those "fairy" love feelings restored to a large extent by doing the things taught on this web site. My W and I are examples of that. When I came here we lived seperate lives to an extent, and now we can't stand to be apart.

Studies quoted elsewhere on this site show that the feelings of being newly in love actually create a chemical addiction in a person, but there are ways to bring those feelings back if two people want to do the work. I have personal experiance with that part of it, and it works.

I have seen people here begin by them selves and have their spouse join later and they have had success. It's for you to decide what you will do.
I know there is no sure cure, you can only try.

You should probably still get some legal advice to protect yourself - in case you need it later. I recommend you see your doctor about anti Depressent drugs, they have been very helpful to many here including one very good friend of mine in this same part of the forum.

I know what you mean about running. I think everyone here has had that feeling at least once. It's hard to go on and do your daily tasks when your whole world seems to be coming apart. I hope and pray you will get help to cope. I believe you will be able to do what you need to do.

Please hold on, think carefully, and do what you believe is best. We will try and support you in whatever you believe that to be.

You are in my prayers, wishing you well tonight.

SS