I keep seeing references made to "NC Letter" - what is it, and why is it done. I assume it means no contact. It has take me awhile to figure out all of these abbreveations. There should be a key on top to these reference. - Guy

A no contact letter is from the ws (wayard spouse-the one having an affair) to the op (other person in the affair).

It tells them the affair is over, the messed up by having the affair, they are staying married and will not have ANY more contact with them.

Don't know where the list of abbreviations is. Someone will post a link shortly, no doubt.

Go out and buy the book Surviving An Affair by the Harleys.

If your WS is willing to work on this, NC (no contact) is key IMHO (in my humble opinion). Along with boundaries, POJA, accountability, honesty and all the other stuff.

This book will help both of you.

I got my book Surviving an Affair in the mail yesterday. I read the first 55-60 pages twice. I found so many similarities between the first affair and the one my wife had (has). She is very interested in reading the book but thinks the NC Letter is overkill. I explained to her that it is not only for her but also for me and my sanity.

Her affair 8 years ago was with her boss. He no longer works in her department (actually in another building 10 miles away) but still needs very little business contact with her. Two weeks ago he sent her, through his assistant, an Inter-Office mail. She said it was very professional with no mention of anything personal, but I have my doubts. After all she recently told me they re-started the affair this January because the first time ended with no resolution (his current girlfriend at the time threatened to leave him and expose everything to his wife if he didn't end his relationship with his new girlfriend - my wife) and he was now free from his girlfriend of 10 years because she had moved to another state. I guess his wife of 20+ years doesn’t count! (Sarcasm)

I explained to her that no contact meant NO CONTACT! But she gets annoyed at me for constantly badgering her about these relationships. I’m starting to lose my patience. All the lies and hurt she has done to me is making me angrier. My wife tells me she needs time to develop feelings for me again, so does her therapist (more sarcasm) but I can’t wait! I need to feel and be loved. “I still love you and care for you but I’m not in love with you.” I told her the reason why she can’t give me love is because she is this “FOG” and still not over the BF, which she replies “That’s ridiculous, I have no contact with him!” “I am with you now!”

When I first found out about her affair I wanted to forgive her immediately, but how can you forgive someone who has really never asked to be forgiven. She said she was sorry, didn’t know that it would make me this upset and thought I would never find out. Some apology (sorry more sarcasm).

Sorry to unload on you guys but I have no one to talk to about this mess. Seeing a therapist for 45 min. every 1-2 weeks just doesn’t cut it. – Guy

PS: Don’t worry I’ll finish the book over the weekend.

PPS: I still want to tell the OM wife but to be honest... I don't think it's in my best interest at this time. Selfish on my account but I have to be... for a while anyway. Maybe after Christmas.

First off, you should tell his wife. Secondly, as you read SAA or the Concepts link that is in grey at the top of this page, you will find that your wife is right, she DOES need time to develop feelings of love for you again - in Harley terms, it takes time to fill up that love bank. Thirdly, the list of abbreviations can be found here: Abbreviations and Acronyms. Lastly, as is the case here, lack of closure is a frequent reason for an affair rekindling. Hence the need for an NC letter. It provides closure. Telling his wife will also provide closure from the other end.

<small>[ September 05, 2003, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

It's not just John, or me, but more importantly Dr Harley himself who says that the OP's spouse has to be made aware of the A. Not only because she deserves to know the truth so she can decide whether to continue to remain married or to seek a divorce, but so that the OP knows that any further attempts to have contact with the WS will be monitored by the BS and the OP's spouse. It is so easy for him to think that he could restart his A with your W (afterall he did it once) if he is of the beleif that neither you or his W knows about the A. But that will no longer be the case if the truth about his A with your W gets exposed.

Let me get this straight: Your wife does not ask to be forgiven and tells you after being recently caught in a second affair with the same guy that she did not think that it would make you so upset and thought you would not find out again? What is wrong with this picture?
Ask you wife if the roles were reversed and your had been having sex with another woman for the past 6 months and your told her I didn't think you would be so upset what do you think her response would be? She did not think that you would be so upset that she was screwing her boss again for her second affair for 6 months? She did not think you would be so upset about her betraying your marriage and her vows a second time and putting your health at risk? Your wife has got to be in another world.
In addition, what a comment to make I didn't think you would find out? Her comments are incredibly hurtful towards you.
The bottom line seems to be that she does not see screwing another man behind your back as being a big deal and is surprised that you are so upset and she was surprised that she got caught because she thought she could keep lying to you and screwing her boss again without you finding out ever. The message is clear that she has a broken moral compass; does not see anything so terribly about having an affair; is very good at cheating and lying behind your back and is surprised that you would be so upset about it happening again.
The attitude and philosophy of your wife would make me want to run to an attorney as quickly as possible.
Dr. Harley says it is absolutely essential to contact the OM's wife and that your wife should show true remorse and understand how she has betrayed you and your marriage. It sounds to me that she has gotten another free pass from you and you are left with a wife who shows very little contrition and has no understanding of what she has done to you. Again the comment that should could not understand why you were so upset about her screwing her boss and then coming home to you is beyond belief. Why would you want to settle for such humiliation and disrespect? I wish you luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Dr. Harley says it is absolutely essential to contact the OM's wife... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">True... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...and that your wife should show true remorse and understand how she has betrayed you and your marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">False. He says you may not get remorse, but that does not prevent recovery if you can follow his recovery plan for accountability, time together, honesty, meeting needs and avoiding lovebusters.

Guy,

You must tell the OMW, she does have the right to know. After you tell her, its up to her.

Your W is in a deep fog, and as long as there is contact even "professional" contact it set the clock back to 0. It does take time for you W to start feeling, I know. My W just told me she loves me. Time, and patience. But, she did total NC.

If you suspect continued contact through work, then you might want to consider informing the Human Resource Department at work. Some companies have a dim view on such actions especially when thier legal department get involved.

Also, you might want to talk to your wife and let her know that she never ask for you forgivness, and that you do want to forgive her.

As you can see, I am compulsing over this idea of telling OM Wife. I know she should know (I know I would) but I feel my wife at this time would go beserk and she along with my marriage is my main concern at this time.

As for Human Resource, her current boss (not the OM) used to be the HR Manager, I don’t know him at all but I think by involving my wife’s company I’m opening up another can of worms. She works for a major insurance company and I’m sure knowing that one of their top managers has this type of behavior pattern would cause a major ruckus.

Too much risk at this time… but I’ll keep you informed. – Guy

PS: I will work on her regarding the NC Letter. One day at a time!

As you can see, I am compulsing over this idea of telling OM Wife. I know she should know (I know I would) but I feel my wife at this time would go beserk and she along with my marriage is my main concern at this time.
Of course she would be ticked off. And she would try to blame it on everyone and not accept it was her doing. But it's usually necessary to force an end the affair.

but I think by involving my wife’s company I’m opening up another can of worms. She works for a major insurance company and I’m sure knowing that one of their top managers has this type of behavior pattern would cause a major ruckus.
But look at it this way. Everything is already in a ruckus because of the affair.
Actions have reactions. If someone you know hit somebody and killed them and didn't report it or get caught, would it be okay for you to NOT report it?
After all, the person is dead. Nothing is going to change that. You know it was an accident. Reporting your friend would only "cause a major ruckus".

Maybe this is an extreme example but you get the idea. It's not you who is causing the ruckus. They did it by having the affair. And being that it's her boss it is now the company's problem.

If you had your own company, wouldn't you want to know when you may be liable for something?

I believe this is somethng you need to think about before just spilling the beans to everyone, but eventually it should get out.

<small>[ September 05, 2003, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Guy,

Please realize that your W is still in "the fog" from the affair and has been for over 5 years. That means this is going to take time. AFter reading all of your posts, I would like to recommend that if your W is interested, and you indicated that she is, that you let her read SAA before discussing the no contact letter or telling the OM's W.

She won't be happy with it, but it should be done.

However, I would strongly urge you to do your best to meet her needs, AND to disengage from her emotionally. I think you need to pull back and be capable of leaving her IF she does not come around. I think you need to realize two things. One you must do your best to meet her needs. Two, you must be strong enough separate from her if her affair persists OR she is unwilling to write the NC letter.

I think the need for the letter will become clearer after she reads SAA.

The last thing I would like to recommend is that you read the articles on this site as well as SAA and pay particular attention to the articles on "withdrawal" which is what your W is going through right now, and then the concepts of "radical honesty" and the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA.

These will be valuable tools for you to use.

Actually there is one other thing to recommend to you. That is GET A NEW MC. The one you have is not good. You might want to read the article on selecting a GOOD marriage counselor. You would be amazed how few good counselors there are and how many bad ones there are. It sounds to me like yours is not so good. Your W is totally responsible for her A, no one else. PERIOD END OF STORY. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Must go. I hope something that has been said is of use to you.

God Bless,

JL

bumping for guy