Thanks for the advice. I also talked to my priest this morning about H leaving and he compared our situation to the war in Iraq, lose the skirmish/battle, but win the war and he said we want to win the war, so let him go even if it is to her. He gave me a great pep talk.

As for the labor, my last two totally natural, the last one with pitocin and had her in 4 hours. If only this could be over that quickly. But you're right you do forget the pain and I had some miserable pregnancies and still wanted more babies.

Have a good day everyone!

Check this out http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=003452

OK, I think I posted a link, it's that list of divorce busters. They sound good to me.

Listen, if he gets her prego she'll be gone even faster. Marriages survive that too as I have seen here. Then he and the child will have to live with it for ever too. Stupidity.

You cannot control other people, just yourself-let live, let God.

HUGS again-JG

Hope you are well this AM. Keep working on you, forget about him. You cannot control what he does. Focus on you, your kids and how to make your personal situation better even if he is not there. Smile, no LBs.

Hope you have a great day. You did not choose this and you did not choose to have an affair. Keep your head high and show the world what a strong woman you are (you have to be since you have 5 little ones, I'm going crazy with 3). Put it all out there, if you have given it your best shot, that is all you can do.

Hugs-JG

H told me last night he was definantly leaving. I was a good girl and said I respected his decision and H even thanked me. He said he's just not happy. I told him he won't let himself be happy (several of his sibs have similar depression problems). He keeps denying he's depressed, but me and several of his doc friends are convinced he is. He won't listen to me, so one them are just going to have to come out and tell him.

Question for the day: Do I go to Plan B? Which would be difficult to implement b/c of the young age of our children 5mos-8 1/2. Of course, I cried last night, but not around him, H knew I was crying by the puffy eyes this morning, So I put on my show-off my buff legs dress and sandals and went to work.

Any advice on how to tell kids? H keeps asking me "what do we tell them?" and I want to say you mean "what are YOU going to tell them?" but I suppose that is a big LB.

Thanks for keeping me going JerseyGirl.

H told a friend that there are only two times he is happy. 1 with his kids and 2 with her. What am I supposed to do with that? I am sick. I keep saying it's The Fog. But it hurts and I'm having a hard time focusing at work.

Help Everyone I just want to scream at him , but I know it's a big LB. How did you get through this nightmare and reconcile???????

Hugs and have a good weekend everyone. I'm renting a bunch of funny goofy movies and eating ice cream.

I know Plan B would be painful. It never got that far with us. He cut off contact, so I thought, and stayed home.

Should you go to plan B? Well, the guy needs tough love, but that is up to you. You could try to continue Plan A until you feel ready for plan b, but the point is for him to take care of his life, and if you keep doing for him, he'll never figure out what you mean to him. You also leave youself open to more pain by seeing him this way. Only you can deceide this one.

He is in the fog still. This is terrible. Keep going, the kids need you and take some time for you. Remember, this is not over until you make that choice. He will miss you. He is lost in space right now.

Focus on you and your kids. Yes, he should tell the kids. It is his choice.

So the OW makes him happy...yeah right...the fantasy of the OW makes him happy, the escape from the "real" world makes him happy,the unreal relationship they have together makes him happy...just wait until they are together,you are fulfilling no more of his EN and he has to rely on her to make him happy...hahahaha. (evil laugh)

I'm sorry to laugh, but WS's have such a twisted sense of what makes them happy. My FWH is struggling with his unhappiness and he realizes it has to come from within. He says he has a dead spot that he's been trying to fill externally, but it has to be healed form the inside out...

His moving out is an EXCELLENT opportunity to go to Plan B. It will be a a shock to his system to totally rely on OW for his happiness. It will cause great stress in their relationship. If you are fulfilling any of his EN's then you are leaving stress in their relationship...I say, don't do it.

Work out as much as you can ahead of time so you both need little to no contact. Set up a third party as a go between, set up the visitation schedule and the financial schedule. Should you have it in writing. Get a legal separation...you can always tear it up later? It is VERY difficult for the BS in the beginning (especially if you hold alot of hope) to keep from contacting the WS...I know.

H moving out tonight to his sister's. Keeps saying he has to do this. He was shocked when I told him he would be on a schedule to see the kids and he would not have random access to the house. I'm changing the locks as soon as he's gone. I'm making him tell the kids, but he keeps asking me what to tell them. He keeps apologizing for doing this and I just look at him and walk away. Last night was rough, but hopefully he'll find himself soon and get rid of OW.

He's feeling the pressure from all of our friends over this and I think he feels pretty alone right now. Well I'm not sure that he even thinks.

Did your WHs still tell you how attractive you were during all of this mess? I've lost all my 5 baby weight and am the size I was when we married. Another thing, he's had a couple of buddies say do you really think your wife would be lacking for male company? What are you thinking your *&^xhead? They told me he just looks at them like duh, never thought about that. They're so wrapped up in their selfish little all about me fogland they don't consider the BS moving on with their life.

Maybe the move will knock him out of it. I'm strong today, gotta coach soccer the next two days so I can't be a basketcase.

Also, now getting some backlash from his one sister (who's mental anyway) saying crap like I'll be sorry I'm telling people and she had the nerve to criticize my parenting and housekeeping skills. (She's no kids and H left her.) It's all blowing up and I'm trying to protect my kids. Any suggestions on books or ways to help my babies?

Thanks everyone, Jersey Girl hope you're not on the coastline!

Good for you! Your strength during this rough time is amazing. If nothing else, you've made him stop and think for the 1st(?) time. Keep it up. Good luck with soccer.

I'm not sure about books. But I know hugs do wonders for kids. Maybe cuddling up and reading their books might be helpful.

No, I'm way inland.

You are doing great. I told you his friends would wake him up a bit. The truth is that a lot of your H's "friends" will be hitting on you. He has left the barn door open. He is being a fool, but he is following the typical pattern. Life should be getting a little rough for him this week. I suspect he'll be begging to come home within the next two weeks. Insist on no contact with OW if that be the case. Chase him off the fence.

Stick to the plan. He is freaking out because you have taken control. He did not count on that. He thought you'd just be sitting there waiting for him to make an appearence. GOOD JOB! NO- GREAT JOB. He is reacting as expected when the fantasy falls away. Remember, you have to be tough if you want this to work. I know it is hard.

As for looking good, you are meeting a need. Remember, this is not about you, it is about him. Something lacking in him.

As for the sister, she doesn't want to face the fact that her brother is being a jerk. Show me a women with kids with a neat house! I don't have a neat house. It only stays neat if the people in it keep it neat, and 5 kids plus H don't keep it neat. You could clean until your dead, but it won't stay neat-ugh! They just don't understand.

One day at a time. When he is busy he won't think about things, but in his down time, he will be going nuts. Keep the control. If this is what he wants, he needs to understand consequences of his actions. You will be fine either way. When your a Mom, sometimes you forget you're an attractive woman, and so do our H's. Let him figure out that you won't be there forever. A good catch is a good catch-period. Oh, let's see, child support for 5 kids, I think that's close to 50% of his income. If you are in a state that considers adultery in divorce, he'd have to pay alomoney too. OW is looking for the big pay off, not in medicine today!! I can't stand that type of woman. She'd be making more than him as a nurse.

Anyway, it won't last. He didn't move in with her-how come? I don't think she wants him either underneath it all.

The big move was to take place last night, but instead we had a huge screaming argument and H threw a bunch of stuff. Kids were crying, it was a mess. H apologized in morning and said he was increasing his meds. H leaving tonight after MC. H still upset that I don't want him to have daily, whenever he wants, access to the kids. Am I wrong with this? I don't want to deny my kids their father, but I feel like he shouldn't be able to come and go at will. Is that a LB?

It is his choice to move out. The harder it is on him, the faster he will come to his sences. No, you are not wrong. He just can't come and go. If he wants family then he has to stay with the family. If he wants no responsibility, then he has to take what comes with it. It is just not fair to you otherwise. He will continure to hurt you, is that what he wants to do, hurt the person who is innocent, No, the guilty should now start to pay. I hope you have spoken to a lawyer too.

It would be too painful for him to just drop by. You can tell him that. I may be wrong, but the sooner reality hits, the better. I'm praying for you and will bump this in the hopes that others will give their opinion. I really think you are doing the right thing-hugsJG

BUMP for more advice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope today is a better day, he didn't move out did he.

In MC last night H said I intentionally got pregnant with #5 and he was just a "donor", even though he thought he made it clear he did not want anymore kids. I don't remember that conversation personally. We were using the rhythm method basically, he kept wanting me to use BC, which I did not want to do and I told him he could get a vasectomy, which he did not want to do. The therapist even asked him if he was going to hold it against me for the rest of my life. I think he is and it's his justification for the OW. H keeps saying he was so angry for so long over #5. Meanwhile, when we only had the 4 kids, he'd always to respond to inquiries as to are we hving anymore by pointing to me and saying it's up to her, she does all the work. My point is our communication skills are the pits and I'm tired of being beat up emotionally over #5 when it takes two people to make one. So if any guys have any comment on how they felt when their wife got pregnant and they didn't really want to have more kids, I'd appreciate some feedback.

Fog talk-he needs an excuse. Send him to the urologist. Isn't he worried he'll get OW prego?

Fog-period-he has no excuse, so he is making one up so he doesn't blame himself. Easier to blame you. Part of the recovery process.

I am usually not on this board. H and I are three years into recovery. But your thread caught my eye.

There is something I think you might want to read. Please read through all of it. The thread is not about what it seems to be at first. The point of this thread addresses what happens when we do not follow the "plan"

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=017708

I understand that you are desperately trying to make the best of a very bad situation. Trying do what`s best for all concerned. You seem to be waffling bit over how to implement the plan B. You are hesitating over telling your in-laws.

You are trying to do the right thing. But you may wind up shooting yourself in the foot in the long run. You have to put a stop to this NOW before your H gets himself into an impossible situation. If OW becomes pregnant you will have a tie to her forever. You have to pull out the heavy artillery NOW.

Your last post flipped a switch for me. My situation with my H was similar. We only have two children though. That was the plan from day one. However H (although he talked about and verbally to agreed with it) did not want a second child. He thought it was expected. He agreed to it to make me happy. But once I became pregnant H went off the deep end and had a ONS.

I think your H has reached his limit. I think perhaps he fears and unending sucession of kids. This may be one of the reasons behind his actions. Since you two are catholic he may feel trapped by this. And NO men do not always tell you this. My H is catholic too. It maybe taboo (in their minds) for them to feel this way.

You really need to consider this. Your H may feel overwhelmed by the number of children. My H did and we only had two. GOOD GRAVY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I am not catholic so I hestitate a bit to advise you on this. But you were willing for your H to have a vascetomy right? You are not totally against birth control right?

Would you object to using some form of birth control for the time being?

You need to get your ducks in a row here. Plan B, expose the A, seek legal advice and let your H AND OW know how much child support is going to be. I figure it will be astronomical maybe enough to scare away OW. Then consider your H`s point of view re the number of children you have. Perhaps you should seriously consider finding a method to ensure your family is complete.

You can get through this. Han and I are another success story/work in progress <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ September 17, 2003, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: Daisy37 ]</small>

<small>[ September 17, 2003, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>

When you are in MC do you wait for the therapist to initiate the discussion about the affair and if it's over? Right now, we've discussing our lack of communication and the problems from it, etc.and the way we are obviously misinterpreting each other. Of course, I want to know if the affair is still ongoing, especially since he said he loved her etc. ( I know this is fog) So am I just torturing myself, I guess I'm worried he's just going through the motions of MC to appease me and try and make it look as if he tried to salvage the marriage. He's now making plans to stay and start practice where we are right now. I'm worried it's more for the OW than us. Any thoughts, did you all move away from the town where OW lived? Or once you're in recovery that's it? I'm confused and am I just thinking too far in advance?

Thanks and hugs to all.

I just came over from GQII to have a look here - I'm also Catholic and so is my H.

I agree completely with Daisy37. And I think you should go over to GQII and look specifically at Mimi1234's thread - she has been in plan B for many months, even sold her house while her H was living with OW - her H just came back this week, and she is starting recovery. Her thread is entitled MY GIFT TO YOU. Read it!

What most BS struggle so hard to accept is that the affair has a better chance of ending, the more time the WS is forced to spend with the OP. We walk a tightrope trying not to do anything that would "push" them into the arms of the OP, when that is the only place where they will find out what a big mistake they have made - once they are there full-time.

Your H is doing the classic WS number - turning his anger on you, instead of himself, and justifying his lack of feelings for you by finding any "fault" in you as justification for not living up to his commitment to love, HONOUR and CHERISH you. Don't buy it. Try not to take to heart all the hurtful things he says - most WS who recover look back and can't believe the things they said.

While you need to know that you CAN recover your marriage, the question you need to ask yourself is - how much am I worth?

You do plan B when you decide that is what is right for you and the children. I think it is absolutely right for you to limit his access to the family home and to put his visits to the children on a schedule. This is not an attempt to use the children to punish him, but to protect them from the turmoil of the affair, and to protect yourself from the pain of having to see him while he is actively involved in adultery. If you have to, and it is often best, arrange for him to see the kids through a 3rd-party drop-off, so that you never have to see him. This will be hard for you, but if you don't, and he is able to wangle seeing the kids whenever he wants, and whenever is convenient for him, AND in the family home, he will never have to face the consequences of his actions, which are...losing his family life, losing his best friend, losing his reputation, just to name a few.

My H also told me he no longer loved me and that he was only staying for the sake of the kids. That was 2 years ago, and we went through Hell after that, but we are recovering our feelings for each other now - it is possible. I think what made him think was that I told him that if we separated, I would not be his friend, and he would no longer see me. In this day and age, it is expected that you will be on "best buddy" terms with your ex. I let him know that that was not going to happen. For me, he was my husband - we married at the altar and that could not be undone except by annulment. He was the one person in my life that I would not be able to look at as "just a friend". He was my husband and I could not be anything other than his wife. I accepted that his feelings for me were changed, and if he wanted a divorce or an annulment, I accepted that, too. But if that happened, then it was over between us. I think this hit home. I was not trying to manipulate him into deciding in my favour, either. I meant it, and still mean it. I still feel the same.

Please go and look at some of the threads on GQII - there are a number of people in plan B, and lurking there can really help you.

God bless you, I'll pray for you.

LIR

<small>[ September 17, 2003, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>