</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When you are in MC do you wait for the therapist to initiate the discussion about the affair and if it's over? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You haven't discussed the infidelity yet? Have you read "Surviving An Affair"? I seriously doubt that better communication is going to help you while your H is having an affair. I have yet to see calm, rational discussion with someone in the fog. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

L-I-R

You are so right. We too are 2 years out. He's still in the fog. You need to put space between you and the OW. Remember, she is just a symptom. My H said some awful things to me too-sorry have to go-crying child

Been doing Plan A for two weeks and we are in joint MC and individual C, Since WH moved out two nights ago, I think I should implement Plan B, however, MC wants us to work on our communication skills or lack thereof. So if I listen to MC I can't correctly implement Plan B, so what do I do? Keep Plan A going? I did post this on Cerri's thread for advice.

Thanks, The rain is coming, so let's hope my basement doesn't flood again.

Hi-hope you have power!

I've been a little busy for the past few days, hope all is well. You've got to read this post, great description of the fog..http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=025062

It is on today, and is great.

One day at a time. It still has to crash around him-hope you have a great day-JG

Hi. I couldn't resist joining in. Been lurking here since July. I'm doing Plan B - didn't do Plan A because I'd already thrown H out after the 6th time he promised not to be with OW - he had to tell her "goodbye" in a motel room. Anyway I love Plan B, it has saved my sanity, and now every day is great. Husband has changed too. Before he would come around only once a week or so and I was so upset I could hardly go to work or get through the day. After Plan B husband has tried to come over about 20 times, has wanted to go out to dinner, got rid of OW (for a week now, which is good for him), and wants to move back in.It was not that hard for me- although I did LB a few times.Made a list of goals: make house sparkling clean,take care of me,exercise everyday (lost 20 pounds) and redecorate my living room. As soon as Plan B initiated I instantly had more self-esteem, peace, contentment and hope.Still haven't made any decisions about next step, I'm being extremely careful because I WILL NEVER GO THROUGH WHAT I'VE BEEN THROUGH AGAIN! Hang in there, sounds like you're on the right path.

Sounds like you are doing the right thing. Isn't it funny how they complain about mess, but when they are gone there is a lot less mess!

What's up with the less mess, it's really weird. Anyhow, my neighbor commented that she has seen more of my H at the house than before when he lived there. Our weekend was platonic and low-key. No LBs, no arguments.

Sometimes I don't know what to talk about. It's like we're dating again or just getting to know each other. It's just really sad and hard for me when he leaves the house to go back to his sister's. Thanks for your support everyone.

Hugs

You have touched on a great point here. Things to talk about. I would not have believed that my H and I would find things to talk about, but the key is in spending the time (I can't remember-is it 15 hrs?) together in a week. We started doing hobbies, dinner, music, sports, shows alone, like when we used to date, and suddenly we have a lot to talk about again. You need to date again. I know this is hard when he is a resident,but even going to Wendy's together is a date. If you can do it without the kids, better. Maybe Chuck E Cheese and the kids can go off and play while you talk? It is critical to have that time together. That is why my H had an affair. We stopped having lunch daily alone when I changed jobs and we lost our connection time. The kids took up the time at home, could this be why he didn't want a 5th? If you are like me, you are very devoted to the children and feel guilty going out without them, esp. if you work, but you have to. Yourrelationship with him has to be first or the kids won't have a dad around. He has to realize this too. Tough for me to swallow, but it did work and we are doing very well in recovery. My H calls theA Hperiod of temporary insaity when work pressures overtook him and I was unavailable because I was so focused on the kids. I had no idea about the MB stuff. An affair is never the answer and is wrong-period, but my part in this was that I was focused on the kids (dead tired because he never never helped and put too much on me-his part) and I let my looks slide-how I dressed, etc.

I am glad he is spending time. I hope he is beginning to realize just what you do-hugs JG

New Jersey you and your H sounds exactly like us. I am devoted to the kids, H is too. But when we had time to go out we always included kids, because we thought family time was more important and our relationship suffered. My H didn't want a 5th because he felt he wasn't spending enough time with the kids. Plus I was dead-tired from kids and juggling everything else, because as a resident he just has no time for household stuff. It's so encouraging to know you survived the A, I hope we will too.

I'm having a hard time now when he leaves after putting the kids to bed to go sleep at his sister's house. He moved out so he could "think clearly." The problem is I get down when he goes because I don't want him to, but I am respecting his decision and not being a LB. I wait till he leaves to cry. Well I don't know if this is the right thing to do, but I'm going to ask him to go out with me. We have MC tonight so we'll have to see what happens. We're usually both pretty drained by the time we're done.

Thanks and hugs.

Good luck tonight and you are doing a fine plan a. It is time for plan b when you can no longer take his coming and going. Good luck tonight. Most really do go back home even if it takes two years!

Mine was almost out of the house, but stayed when he didn't see me leaving. We caught the A eary on. I suspect that your H and an EA before the PA with the same woman. You can recover. It will be different, but it will be good and you will be so very strong like you are. Remember, plan a is really about you. You planning your future. Tell him what your future plans are if he starts giving you a road block. The more we pull a man the more he pulls away. Whee we start to detach they chase. Hugs soulsister!

One more thing-only 18 years till the kids are out of the house!

MC was draining as expected, but very productive. It dealt alot with my inability to leave the kids without anxiety and relinquishing control over them to someone else. Anyhow, therapist ordered me to take a break for myself, so I'm going to my bro-in-law's in FL in Oct, H is going this weekend, his bro had a freebie ticket, the therapist wanted them to change it to me, but due to post-911 rules, no can do. So I'm going later. I was told to do stuff for myself as homework. Besides talk with H.

I'm almost done with HNHN and will pass it on to H if he wants it, then I start LB, got it yesterday. We did talk about the trust issue and how I don't trust H, which will take a lot of time to repair.

Anyhow, must coach soccer tonight, and try and spend an hour with H afterwards. Thanks for your support.

PS my mom says kids never really leave, they just keep coming back to the house with various problems and bonuses (grandkids). My little sis is 31 and my mom finally took the rest of her stuff out of the house and drove it to my sis'or she was going to toss it.

You're Mom is so right! Hope you are having a good day. I'm on the run today! Hugs-JG

Hope things are going well. Here if you need me-JG

H out of town in FL with his bro all weekend, so it was very relaxing with just me and the kids. No wondering if he was with her, etc. Interestingly, I got hang-up calls from payphones in our town throughout the weekend. I love caller ID. Possibly OW? I hope so, cause that would mean he did not tell her he was going out of town and she couldn't reach him. Trouble in fantasyland? Let's hope!

H called this morning before heading to airport and oldest daughter refused to talk to him. H very upset. I think his fantasy is collapsing. I'm anxious to talk to my sis-in-law tonight, she & her kids are flying back with H and see how it went this weekend.

On the downside, OW's number was on the cellphone bill 3 times. Does H really think I wouldn't be looking. I didn't confront him with it, b/c I can keeps tabs on him somewhat that way and plus I wasn't going to score any points if I got mad about it.

The kids didn't seem to miss him this weekend which is sad. He's draining their love bank as well as mine with his behavior. H didn't call at all yesterday and I did not call him and the kids didn't ask to talk to him. We rearranged furniture in the house to accomodate a computer desk in the LR and the girls had me move his old recliner out to another room "because he's not here much anyway." H is destroying our kids for this OW. Maybe his trip helped him "clear his mind." If not, he's going to lose all of us. I also quit telling him I love him, haven't said it all week.

I'm sad, but know me and kids will be OK with each other if he leaves us for OW, but I don't think the oldest two will ever forgive him.

He sounds like my H a short while ago. It seems like you're getting through to him without saying a word. Keep up the good work. I know not saying I LOVE YOU hurts. I found I could whisper it to myself which helped my self esteem too. I'm glad it hurt him when your D refused to talk to him. Now he's feeling the consequences. Let's hope he wakes up before it's too late.

H out of town in FL with his bro all weekend, so it was very relaxing with just me and the kids.

Very relaxing alone with 5 children. I'm impressed. You're better than I thought. My hat is off to you.

I'd bet money it was the OW calling. He may have told her, but she doesn't believe him. Yes-trouble in fantasy land for sure. I hope he got a dse of family and a mouthful from his brother. I am sure he missed the family. What I would give to see his face when he sees his chair has been moved. You are doing great!!!!! Being strong for both of you. Tough love is the only way. My parents told me the same things I am telling you. We can't predict with 100% certainty, but the stats are on your side. He will get tired of this very soon. He needs to miss you and the kids to understand what is going on. Don't tell sis-in-law too much. Remember, it is still his side of the family. Don't give away your secrets or tell them where you post. You don't want them to know your next move.

I am so darn proud of you. You are really doing well. He HAS to see what this means to his life, and this is the only way that is going to happen.

I'm so glad the OW did hang ups. It was her. Mine did the same thing. Again, she is nothing but a symptom. She'll be gone weather or not you stay with him because he'll never trust her or visa versa. Affairs start off on the wrong foot and hardly ever recover.

Nothing but smiles for you today. A+++

He will be falling apart shortly.

Hope things are going well. One day at a time.

H back from FL Monday night and went straight to OW's house to check on her daughter, because he's worried about her. Never mind the fact, that our oldest daughter wouldn't even talk to him on the phone before he left FL. His lame excuse was that he knew he wouldn't be there long and so he stopped there first. Of course, I went off on him and you can guess what I said about family priority, etc. I told him it was just an excuse to see her mother. He admitted that he told the OW he was not "seeing" her anymore, obviously the EA is still there.

I'm tired of all of this, I told him I feel like a fool. We all went to dinner last night after the kids' soccer games and it was enjoyable. We were all so exhausted that we all went straight to bed and he left to go to his sister's. I'm going to pull way back and concentrate on me, but it's hard. I keep reading the books, but it doesn't make it any easier knowing that he's doing all the stuff that's in the books.

Thanks for your support. Hugs!

Yes, he may have wanted to go there to tell her that it is really over after having some time to think, but I'd be angry too. I think your response to concentrate on you and your children's future should send a clear messege that this is no game for you.

I wish there was a way for him to have no contact with her. I guess only he can make that decision. By taking charge of yourself, however, you gain some control and take some from him, just waht he does not want. I am glad you went out Sun.

He really is going thru a crisis. I think he may just be running from responsibility. You need to be the grown up because he is acting like a child. He is just running away to fantasy land where it is easier. Look where he is staying, with his sister who I am sure is being his mommy. I told my H at that point that I was not his mother and to not expect me to be his mother. I wasn't going to be home waiting up while he was off with his "girlfriend". Just remember, as much as your H wants to think this is different, this is just so typical. Hang in there. They all make me so mad. Why is it so hard for them to wake up?

Is he in his last year of R? The combo of family and the thought of going out there on his own may be playing a role. Many of our R went thru this. Some had As too. The guys all went home. (It is different with women, they usually exit, not all-but those who were BSs,) but for men, they want their cake and to eat it too.

You are doing all you can and are doing GREAT! Hope he keeps waking up-JG