I've posted recently under "Trial seperation, Now what", and now my situation has become very, very desperate. I just don't know where to turn or what to do.

The sorry is a long one, but you all should know facts in order to assist me. I'm a bit disappointed on the quantity of replys. I REALLY NEED SOME ADVICE AND VERY SOON!!!

Please go back to read my story at the referenced post title - Topic: Cheri/Harleys.... Trial seperation, NOW WHAT?

Below is whats happened since. Please I'm feeling so very desperate and unsure about what my next step is.

No matter what I say to defend myself or when I'm discussing issues of concern for us, he just won't hear me. He believes what he believes, what others are telling him. Even this so-called therapist he's been seeing has told him that everything he's doing is just fine.

How is treating a human being (especially a spouse), so disrespectfully, to criticize, or belittle, or running away from a situation that THEY caused, just fine to do.

My Plan A doesn't seem to be working, so now what? With his lack of empathy or understanding, how can it? His only concern about my threat of suicide, was purely a financial one. It would de-value the property if someone killed themselves in it. What a completely horrible thing to say.

Also he claims that he had a moral obligation to tell his mistress that I had found out where she lives and that I had followed him that one night. Again defending her. Said that she was an innocent party in all of this. She should know. I told him that he was the one that involved her into our situation. he did not have to tell her a thing.

He says I need to be institutionalized. I explained that the way I'm reacting to this is emotional not being crazy or pose any sort of threat to anyone. That there won't be "an us", if it's to continue the way it has. I think he's just using everything he can to justify his actions.

I've tried depositing into his LB, but I don't think he's ready to receive. I wrote an email to him, being very supportive, agreeing that there won't be "an us", if the A continues or the verbal abuse continues. But I would enjoy a chance, when he's ready and willing, to rebuild our marriage. (God help me again, even after all of this, could I really be still thinkging that). He's treated this whole thing so horribly, why would I still want this man in my life.

Please help - how should I react to him telling his mistress every little detail about us? What does he protect her so much and not his spouse? Does the A mean more to him than I realize? Should I continue any contact? He's coming over tonight and tomorrow to move the rest of his things over to his new apt., What do I say? How should I act? I need to be there, because I don't know what he'll do to my things.

People please I'm really desperate.

Thanks.

I know how you feel as far as wondering what to do, advice etc. I know how it feels thinking that everything you do could sway the relationship one direction or another.

I believe he wants you to question your sanity, and he wants to believe and others to believe (including yourself) that you are irrational, and /or the one in the wrong. He wants to remove blame from himself and put it on someone else-you.

I don't really have any advice, as I am early in a very complicated situation myself with my WH. But, I do know from my experiences that he has also tried to make me feel "crazy" and irrational at times-when he is the one displaying those traits. I also know that he at times responds better to a lack of attention or distancing myself from him either emotionally or physically (minimal talk/response when around-just enough to not be rude-and going places/doing things w/out him-also not making the effort for conversation, calling etc-then he does so more) at times than he does when things are "wonderful"--kindof the 'you don't appreciate things until they are gone' scenario.

As far as posts/replies--I too have felt like I didn't have many replies when I truely "needed" guidance. I guess I must appreciate the guidance and recommendations I do get, when I get it-rather than being disappointed when I don't. I think this site and the people are very special and exceptional, but we must not totally rely on it in urgent times of need. The info is amazingly valuable and I find myself wanting to be able to utilize it in urgent times-but I guess by the nature of it we cannot do so. Also, I add to my old thread in order to provide all of the info about my situation, and I wonder if I need to start a new thread, as it might get more replies?!

Wishing you the best-whatever that turns out to be!

PS-you referenced suicide in your post-I am a child survivor of suicide-my father committed suicide when he and my mother were divorcing. It was 1 wk before my high school graduation. My father was not very loving-actually was quite the opposite, but I soooo wish he hadn't done so. It hurts others so much (forever)-more than anyone knows unless they have lived it. You are a valuable person and things will improve-perhaps slowly, and not the way you think you want things to happpen, but things will change.

Lemon,
Your WH sounds like he is being very selfish in his needs for himself. And if he is still having contact, all of what he is saying to you is FOG talk. With him moving out, you have to make the decision yourself if you are going to continue Plan A or move to Plan B. Have you read any books? Surviving An Affair or Torn Asunder?

Counseling, reading, praying - all this will get you the answers that you need. Each situation is different, yet similar, but ultimately what to do has to come from inside each of us. Only we know how much we can tolerate, what our boundaries are and what our dealbreakers are. You can glean understanding from other's posts and you can try to implement them into your life, but no one can tell you what to do.

Be at peace my friend, let God guide you.

I would consider making an appointment with the Harley's for yourself. They can give you the best advice on how to handle this situation. I take it the OW is not married or involved with anyone. Has the A been exposed to her family, your family, his family, etc. Remember most A's don't hold up well under the light of day.

I hate to say it but your actions are probably going to push your H further away. You need to find the strenght to stop LBing.

Are you in IC, if not find a good one and get in as soon as you can...Plan A is the time to work on yourself. Some of us have also needed medicine to help out temporarily in the early days post dday.

Is there someone in your family or a good friend that you can stay with so you are not alone for awhile?

Lemon,

I'm an experienced poster and I'm going to give you some excellent advice, that I hope....you will listen to carefully. If you want to save your marriage, you are going to have to calm down and get help.

Your suicide threats tell me that you need more help than this board can offer you. Cerri has had internet problems....the Harleys don't answer posters here. I would like you to call an individual counselor and immediately get anti-depressants. Not because you're crazy....but because surviving affairs is emotionally devastating and Harley recommends them for folks in Plan A.

Your Plan A is not working because you are not doing a Plan A. This is a Plan A: You stop Love Busting, You fill needs that your H will allow you to fill. You confront your spouse in a calm way and tell him how the affair makes you feel. You expose the affair. Right now you are a loose cannon and you are harming your chances for reconcilliation.

Go out today and buy a copy of "Surviving an Affair"....it will be your new bible. Your husband is acting horribly....he is also acting exactly like almost every wayward spouse on this board. Read about THE FOG....and how horrible the WS's act during this period of infatuation with the A. Don't listen or believe ANYTHING he says. Right now he is an addict that doesn't care about anything but getting his drug.

Start listening to the advice being given to you instead of continuing to run amok.

Sweetie, I am worried about your state of mind. Your H is in the clutches of an affair. If you want the affair to end, you've got to get a hold of yourself. This board is not enough support for you right now.....you need more help.

So.....to recap:

1. Go see the doc or IC and get ADs
2. Call the Harleys or cerri and make an appt.
3. But a copy of "Surviving an Affair" and read it!
4. STOP LBING
5. Breathe and calm down
6. Fill needs when possible
7. Talk to folks here about confrontation and exposure that is productive and not destructive
8. Slow down
9. Read everything you can find here
10. Really listen to the advice coming to you

We understand....we really do. This first part of discovery is shattering and we want to help....so please....try to think about what is being said to you.....and why. I will put you in my prayers.

WOW, I'm feeling really blessed right now. Great replies and I thank you all very much.

GW:

You've hit the nail, and in reality, I had already known that his behavior was a way to justify his actions. I'm trying my best to keep communication at a minimal, fortunately the only issue we would need to discuss is the selling of our home. We did not have children, although I do have a beautiful daughter, which I thought he cared about. Now it seems there are some jealousy issues there as well.

I also am a survivor of suicide-my father. My mother had passed away in 1988 and even though their marriage was a somewhat dysfunctional one, he grieved terribly. He had complications from heart surgery, which was too much for him to endur. So yes, my thoughts do concern me, I never thought he would do something like that because of his religious beliefs. Just goes to show you, when someone talks about it, listen to them.

I do appreciate thoughts. Thank you.

onlyUcan:

Selfish is an understatement. (LOL) Yes, I've picked up quite a few books on the subject. It's so hard to pick which one I should read first. Surviving An Affair is one that I did get, and I've read through some very specific areas, relating to my issue.

I feel like this is all happening so fast and I just don't want either of us to make any more mistakes or bad decisions.

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers.

forevertogether:

I'll definitely look into contacting the Harley's. Since I'm so new to this area, I had noticed some posts addressing specific moderators and I thought that if I did that I would have heard from one of them. But I also understand that with so many to help, they can only do so much and it is very appreciated. That's why we have each other.

The OW is not married, but I'm not sure if there is someone else. My WS indicated that her contact information was kept unpublished for a reason, so who knows.

I do know that the OW did bring my WS over to either friends or family a couple of times. But I'm not sure what they know. My WS's friends know about the A. But of course it's all one-sided. I realize my actions haven't been the best way to handle this. Finding the strength to control my LBing is tougher than I thought. But I'm committed.

It's just so hard to consistantly hear him speak to me with such vile and disgust. And for what? Why the games? If it's over then let it be over. Why not just file for a divorce?

I thank you all so much.

Best wishes to all of you.

star*fish:

I appreciate your kind words and empathy. I know that I'm a bit high strung these days.

In my state presently, he doesn't want anything to do with me, (can't blame him). I'm just concerned that my H won't allow me to fill whatever needs I can. I guess time will determine that.

But what to do about the A? He's allowed her to send nasty emails, which revealed some very personal details and then he asks me not to respond to that. Told her about me showing up to see him and the possibility that I would go by her place. Just so she could legally do something about it. I explained that I did not have any intentions of showing up at her place, I wouldn't waste my time.

What did you mean by exposing the affair in a productive not destructive way? Where can I find info.?

You've given me lots of great advice and I know I need to chill. Thank you so very much.

Lemon,

But what to do about the A? He's allowed her to send nasty emails, which revealed some very personal details and then he asks me not to respond to that. Told her about me showing up to see him and the possibility that I would go by her place. Just so she could legally do something about it. I explained that I did not have any intentions of showing up at her place, I wouldn't waste my time.

Chere, right now what you do about the A is fight it....but not your way....the Harley way. And the Harley way goes against your instincts....which are to hurt him as he is hurting you. That won't help you right now. The point of Plan A is to show him that the marriage is a better alternative than the affair. He won't let you fill many of his needs....but there are ways to love bank deposits....you will see. In the meantime...STOPPING those LBs is PARAMOUNT! Here are cerri's guide to Plan A:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Plan A as Harley meant it to be...

Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)
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Plan A is not about being a nice guy. Plan A is about ending the affair.... being a nice guy is part of that, but only part. That's why confronting and exposing are crucial elements of Plan A... and if you're not doing those things then you can't really say that you're doing Plan A.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What did you mean by exposing the affair in a productive not destructive way? Where can I find info.?

You get some idea about what I mean from cerri's guidlines. Productive vs Destructive means:

Confrontation without LBs. You make statements that refer to how you feel....they aren't disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts etc. You let him know how the things he is doing affect you and the children.

Exposure: Is the OW married? You call her H. You call his family and tell them that about the affair. You call his boss. You blow the lid off and expose this thing to light of day....but NOT with MALICE. Your should make sure that the exposure reflects your desire to SAVE your marriage and end the affair.

Hang in there chere....this first part is really scary. I'm so sorry.

Great ideas here. But with the issue of exposing the A, while searching every website I could to get more information on the OW, (and keep in mind whatever intelligence I had came from my H, and we all know that what he's telling me are lies or not the full story), I kept coming up with nothing. As far as I know she lives alone, no spouse. I'm not even sure if she has brothers, sisters, if her parents are alive. Only thing I do know is that she did bring my H over to either friends or maybe cousins home. Don't even know where she works exactly. So I'm pretty much in the dark.

Are there any other alternatives to consider?

Thanks again.

What about his family? Expose it to his family and friends, his co-workers, your family and friends etc...

Well, when it comes to his friends, they pretty much already know. And obviously it's only one-side of the story that they know. According to my H, they support him. As far as his family, the only one that he's shared with is his brother. He doesn't really speak much to his parents or sisters. Very sad and dsyfunctional. In examining his behavior lately, I believe that he is reacting to me like he would react to his mother. she was not a very sane person, thus why his father left her. But hey, I may be a bit more emotional than your average woman, but I'm not crazy. So I don't see the comparison. That is why he is seeing a therapist without me - to get at HIS issues first.

So pretty much, the people in our lives, pretty much know that we are seperated, and a select few know some details. I just don't know who I could contact on OW side. Whatever attempts I've made before, with contacting the OW, via email or calling his friends, have been to no avail. As a matter of fact, it's irritated him more. And my calls to his friends were only to find out where he was, not to grill them. My H has basically asked that I make no further contacts to OW or his friends. Otherwise I deal with consequences. Well in my opinion, what more can he do to hurt me.

so still not sure how to expose....

Thank you.