I wanted to start a new discussion thread because I’m now taking a different approach to my wife’s A and our marriage. Please see “What to do” to get a background on my situation.

We just returned from a “Retrouvaille” session this weekend and now have a completely different perspective on my marriage. For those of you that don’t know, Retrouvaille is a Catholic-based program designed to heal and renew marriages in trouble. You don’t have to be Catholic to attend (I’m not) –it is open to all faiths (but it is Christian-based).

I went Friday night as a skeptic. I felt it may help our communication, but refused to think that one weekend could reduce my anger, resentment, and pain I was feeling from the A. By Saturday night, I was beginning to see a new perspective and by Sunday, I felt so in love with my wife again. I don’t want to make it sound like I was brainwashed because I still feel the pain of the A. BUT, I have so much more hope in my marriage now. Probably the biggest reason for my change is seeing my wife’s change in attitude. She said & did things that made me 100% certain she was serious about rebuilding our marriage this time.

They discussed the topic of forgiveness and how by allowing yourself to forgive someone you love, you can actually begin to move forward in healing. Prior to the program, I just couldn’t see any way to get past the distrust, resentment, and pain. I really did still love my wife, but just couldn’t see how I could get past these feelings. It seemed so impossible prior to this weekend, but I think the key is forgiveness. I want to point out that I still haven’t forgiven my wife yet. I was afraid that I was just “caught up in the moment” of the weekend. I want to wait some time to see if I still feel the way I did then (so far, I do). But, I feel that I’m already headed in that direction and I already feel the relief that forgiveness brings.

I know I’ve posted some bad things about my wife on this board. All of the events are true but, to her defense, I have to admit that I was doing everything possible to sabotage her efforts and make her feel horrible about what she did (sometimes consciously and sometimes subconsciously). I believe now that it was a combination of her frustration, depression, and her own selfish/controlling personality that allowed her to do those things. I can’t control her personality, but if I can control my part (sabotage, angry outbursts, and judgment), it’s incredibly amazing how HER response changes.

I honestly can say that I fell in love with my wife again this weekend. I can guarantee that she has also fallen in love with me. There were 40 couples at the weekend session. One mentioned that they were living apart for 6 months and scheduled for their final divorce hearing in a week. In tears, they said the weekend completely changed their minds and they are going to fix their marriage instead of proceeding with the divorce. It really works. They claim to have a 70% success rate (70% of attendees stay and repair their marriages after the program). It isn’t foolproof –some attendees still proceed with a divorce, but at least can say that they gave reconciliation a shot.

Now, I’m not going to be naive and say that there will be no more pain or bad times ahead. In know there will be, but I am approaching with such a different perspective than I did before.
I haven’t decided to move back home permanently yet and I’m not sure when I’ll be ready to forgive her, but I HAVE put my wedding ring back on as a commitment to her and my marriage.

I honestly believe that the advice from this website and Dr. Harley’s books compliment the Retrouvaille program. The weekend program (plus 6 follow-up Sundays) allows you to put an end to the damage (and LB’s), take a step back and really get a perspective on your current situation. Then, I believe that Dr. Harley’s guidance can be applied so much better. You actually can open you ears to what he is saying when you can get back on track.

This program is offered around the world. I highly recommend it to anyone who can’t seem to get past the feelings of pain, hurt, or distrust in their marriage. If you’re interested, their website is www.retrouvaille.org.

I’ll keep you posted on the path to rebuild our marriage!

Dear BA,
I am so happy to hear of your positive experience. I was curious...do you think this program would help someone who is in the midst of an A find the strength to walk away? I don't know if you know my story, but I have been having an A for 5+ years with the same man. We have developed a plan on my thread (**Jaref**) - but I was wondering if this might kick-start things. I think I understand from your previous posts that your W had ended her A already, right?

By the way, I can "see" (from your writing) that something has touched your heart - there is a softness and understanding for your W that you didn't have before. It seem the anger has been replaced by humbleness and love. It is very beautiful.

BA,

Thanks for the critique. This was recently offered at my church & I wondered if it would be worthwhile to attend.

Based on what you've said it sounds like it. I take it that this wasn't your church...am I right?

One of my reason's for not attending this at my church is that I'm not sure I want to advertise to anyone that we've had marriage problems; but maybe it's not advertised this way.

FWH and I have only told our priest about the A. Literally no one other than the OW knows about it. Well unless she's told others!!

So thanks for the link to the website!! CSue

Thank you for posting. We are signed up to go in a couple of weeks. WS really sees no hope for us, so this weekend is very important to me.

Jaref,

No, they make it very clear that the A MUST be over before going to the program. I have to agree that it is extremely important to end it PRIOR to going. I don’t think you’d get the same results if you haven’t acted on your decision.

I thought my WS had ended her A last year, but it continued for another 10 months. I have a strong feeling that it would not have worked for us back then. She wasn’t ready to end the A at that point, so I don’t think the program would have gotten through to her.

CSue,

Yes, it is definitely worthwhile to attend! No, our session was not held at our church –it was held at a hotel on the other side of town. I have a feeling that yours would be held at a hotel as well because they want to keep you focused for the entire weekend.

Keep in mind that you NEVER have to reveal your specific problems. You are never asked to speak (except to introduce yourself by first name only).

Secondly, one of the “presenting” couples from our session were members of our church. I don’t think people see you attending as a sign that you are in the midst of a failed marriage –actually I think they see it as a sign that your marriage means so much to you that you that you are wiling to get help.

Lbc,

I really didn’t see hope before I went either (and I’m the BS). It sounds like you just found out about the A. I hope your WS has really ended it. It is so important for the program to work…

Good luck and to you all!

HI BA

I agree with JareF, I can tell the difference in your post.

If you truly feel your wife is with you working on you M, it might be time to forgive her, my W kept saying "I'm Sorry" on D-day. I told her that I didn't want to hear that I wanted her to ask for my forgiveness. You might want to do the same.

If you love her and she loves you then its time for forgivness.

It does sound like an interesting program. I might check it out myself. (Have to wait on finances to work itself out first. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

God Bless

BA:
I believe the word ebullient is in order here for your apparant successful weekend.
I do not want to be the wet blanket here. But I will anyway.The reason is that you may set yourself up for a real fall.

What I am getting at is this. Are you 100% sure that your wife's affair is ended ? The reason I ask is because of comments in your posts in the past. Also, you seem to have forgiven her over a weekend. For me, forgiveness would take time. I think forgiveness (in recovery anyway involves a level of trust).
I guess I am concerned that much of what has happened to going forward into a recovery is rather quick. While there are no guarantees in life, my main concern is that she is not getting any therapy for what she has done. I do not mean Marriage Counciling. I mean psychiatric therapy.
She(and you) need to know why she did this, to prevent it in the future.There may well be a reason beyond yoyr marriage.
I do wish you a successful recovery. But be aware. You are in a dangerous period. Trust me, I know.

Silverthorn,

I really do see a completely different perspective from her this time. During the session, they came to the point of forgiveness. Before I could even tell her I wasn’t ready she said “I know your probably not ready to forgive me yet and I’m really okay with that”. She only wanted me to try to work on our marriage and slowly get past this. She didn’t ask me to put on my ring or move back home –only to try.

I have to disagree about when to forgive. I’ve never stopped telling her that I love her. I have to be completely convinced (by her actions –not words) that she is really serious this time. I think we’re close, but I need more time. I want to take this slow.

By the way, they never turn anyone away based on expenses. They only ask for a “donation” to cover the hotel, food, and materials. You give as much as you are able. We actually gave a little more than they asked because we got so much out of the program.

Gregg M,

I understand what you are saying (believe me).

I KNOW that everything isn’t perfect now after one weekend. I still have pain and resentment, but I feel there’s hope to get past it now. Before the weekend, I saw no possible way to get past these feelings. The weekend gave me hope. It also gave me an opportunity to SEE my wife’s commitments (rather than just hear them).

Although I’ll never be 100% sure (there’s just no way –unless I never left her side 24 x 7), I do feel confident saying that the A is probably over. I do have reservations, but I see so much more in support of it being over than the other way around.

I have not forgiven her. If you read my post, I said that I wasn’t ready yet. I didn’t want to do it over the weekend for fear that I was “caught up in the moment”. You’re right, forgiveness will take time, but I do see the weight it will lift from me when that time comes.

Just after the weekend was over, I stressed that I still wanted to take it slow and I definitely wanted her to continue her individual therapy. Our MC is a licensed psychologist and is working to get her the necessary help. We continue our sessions separately for now.

Unfortunately, you have to reach a point where you decide you’re leaving the marriage or staying. If staying, you can’t just sit back and expect the WS to do all the work. I do have to take an active role if I want to be a part of a better marriage. This means that I have to give her a little trust that she’s serious this time. I see no other way to do this.

Hi BA

I know you will forgive when you feel its time. In some ways I think you already have. I'm happy to hear what your W said. Its a good thing. Actions always speak louder than words. My wife over the years would always respond to me when I said "I Love you" with "I Love you to". Of couse now I see it in her eyes and by her actions. Much better then over the last few years. It sometimes very hard to love someone that has hurt you so much. But, we do don't we. Keep on the way your doing. Take it slow. No rushing this process no matter how much you'd like to.

BA just remember that forgiveness and reconciliation are two totally different things for you can have one without the other.

No matter what happens to your marriage, you should nonetheless strive for forgiveness because YOUR personal recovery depends on it and so does your future and your children's future.

Quick question regarding retrouvaille.

What is the deposit required when signing up? THe follow up weekends are they in person weekends? How does that work? My dh wants to go, however he weekens Fri-Mon so he has to take off of work. Does it start that Friday or Sat? Thanks

BA :

I agree that a WS cannot do all the work. There must be rcognition by the BS to work on themselves as well. Having said that, I do not believe that it as simple as staying in the marriage or leaving it. It will never be the same as it was in the past. Here is my point. I believe that the emotional detachmwent exercise is intended to do several things, among them: setting yourself up to begin recovery to continue to make good choices. This detachment should ,in my opinion, lead to setting boundries in your marriage. These boundries need to be set in order for the recovery to be successful. Even for someone that you love more than anyone else.

We set boundries for our children. We love them. We set boundries for others including our spouses.

Recovery dictates that you must set boundries OR the marriage will return to what it was in the past.

In my case, I set boundries for my wife when it appeared that we were in recovery. She violated every one of them. By that time I had managed to learn how to detach emotionally. And my choices became much more clear.

Think about this. While you have to make permanant your own changes, you must also be willing to signal your wife that you would walk away from your marriage if this ever happened again. This is what boundries help you to achieve.

Just my .02

It cost $75 for us to sign up. They ask for a donation at the end of the weekend, but you are not turned away if you cannot afford it.

The weekend starts at 7pm on Friday and goes to about 5pm on Sunday. The followup sessions are in person and usually on Saturday. I know our community used to do them Saturday morning, but our sessions will be on Saturday nights.

Thanks lbs. Unfortunately we can't make it. Dh works every weekend. He was going to take a weekend off to go but he can't take the following 6 weeks off... Maybe next year...

Our session costed $50 to sign up. They then asked for a donation on Sunday. You pay what you can afford.

Our weekend ran at the same time (7pm on Friday through about 5pm on Sunday), but our follow-up sessions are on Sunday. Obviously, it varies from one location to another.

Our first follow-up session was yesterday and, to be honest, I wasn't as impressed. The presenting couples weren't as good, but I still got something out of the day. Just being there seemed to help put things back into perspective again.

We had a pretty good week: the bad times didn't seem as bad and the good times seemed much better. Again, our problems didn't go away, but we seem to approach them in a better light.

On the way home from our follow-up session yesterday, I mentioned that I'd like to see her doing more to get to the root of our problmes and rebuilding of our marriage. She got very upset because she has been doing a lot to make me happy and planning many times we can spend quality time together (she has been doing a lot). I told her that those things are great, but I really want to see her focused on addressing the issues in our relationship, too. For example, reading a book that our MC gave us on separation. She insists that going to our MC and follow-up sessions ARE things that work on the problems and relationship. She's very upset with me because she feels I'm discounting the great things she is doing. I just want to make sure we face the problems and drive for change instead of trying to make everything nice & better right now. Am I being unreasonable? I did tell her (many, many tims) that I recognize and appreciate the nice things she is doing. I don't want her to stop these because I think it helps our recovery, but at the same time, I want to know that she can put aside a few hours a week to work on the problems independent of MC & the follow-on sessions. Am I being unreasonable?

TMCM,
Please explain the difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. I'm not sure I understand how those are different or how each plays a part in my recovery.

I feel like I'm close to forgiving her. I really do feel like it will allow me (and us) to move forward, but I'm not ready to admit that I'll forget everything, never be depressed or angry, and never bring it up again. Do I have to be ready for that in order to forgive?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayed_again:
<strong>
I don't want her to stop these because I think it helps our recovery, but at the same time, I want to know that she can put aside a few hours a week to work on the problems independent of MC & the follow-on sessions. Am I being unreasonable?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I don't think you are being unreasonable. I realize that the real work of the relationship is outside of MC. Are we changing the way we relate to each other? Are we identifying, talking, and working on our core issues? Are we trying to understand how the other person is feeling? Do we know what the other person is feeling?

BA I would be glad to explain the difference.

Forgiveness is the act of pardoning somebody for a mistake or wrongdoing, and it DOES NOT require the offender to ask for it in order for it to be granted by the offended. Your personal recovery depends on it.

Reconciliation is the act of renewing a relationship between disputing people and it DOES require the offender to ask for it in order for it to be granted by the offended. Your marital recovery depends on it.

I hope this helped you see that they are NOT the same thing.

My wife and I did the Retrovaille program and had a similar experience to you. The follow-ups are not as emotional or rewarding as the weekend. I think the program is great and it can really help couples that are trying to recover from an A. I will say this though, don't get caught up in the good feelings. All the issues are still there, and the closest we came to not making it was after Retrovaille. You have to keep working very hard and don't relent. You can do it. I haven't been on this site for a while. Frankly, coming here brings back a lot of bad feelings for me. I found this place on d-day, which was a god send, but it is also an emotional place for me to come. Anyway, we have continued to forge ahead. About a week ago I went over a day without thinking of her A. I think you BS's realize how hard that can be. We're doing ok, and the concepts of Retrovaille, specifically dealing with feelings, have have helped a lot. Keep on working!

We just returned from Retrouvaille this past weekend and I recommend it to *everyone*. I signed us up, but by the time we got there, I had no hope for our M. It was not until the last session on Saturday night that I saw a glimmer of hope. I actually learned something about myself that has been affecting our relationship. I had been blaming WS for so long, but it had nothing to do with him. Our problems are not resolved. Not by a long shot, but I feel closer to WS today than on our wedding day. We have an uphill battle. I did not ask him for NC and he did not offer. We only promised to take it one day at a time. Wish us luck!