To be honest with you .. No I do not believe anything she says at the moment. I do not trust her and that's a hard thing for me because I did trust her. way too much. ( but I only have myself to blame for that. ) So now I don't really believe anything she says .. I am not going to fall into the same blind trap like last time .. but how can I find out if she is talking to OM still if I'm not suposed to talk with her about the A. or "us"? I don't want to press the issue with her but I can't move forward if she is still having contact with him.. or should I just give it more time .?

Ok, for what reasons are you avoiding the "us" and "affair" conversations?

There are ways of knowing what she is doing. In general, assume she is in contact until she gives meaningful evidence and takes concrete, verifiable steps to ensure no contact.

L&C,
your last conversation with her sounded promising. a real break through! so you see,... she talks divorce but in moments of lucidity, admitts that it's just smoke and it's not divorce that she really wants.

i would expect that your W is a very confused woman right now. if you can continue to stay calm and represent a constant in her life...a safe place for her to come...a place where she feels that she will be listended to rather then repramanded and judged by you, then i think you have a real shot at honest communication. as you say, however, baby steps!

if it were me i would keep doing what you're doing. that is being there to listen and not responding to her fog talk with anything more then non-comittal fraisology. no anger or arguments...just a soft yet firm kind of resolve.

to me the most important thing you can do at this point is not be mean or judgemental...you can tell her you disgree or that your disapointed but i would only do it in response to her foggese....and do it nicely...with respect!

further i wouldn't initiate anything...let her initiate the relationship talk. the less you say, it seems the more inclined she is to come to you with discourse...so let her. let her talk it out to you. be there for her. listen, encourage her, keep telling her that you want her in ways that she will believe..that is by not being judgemental concerning the things she's done and is doing.

time is your friend. play it out. give her a chance to get herself back together.

coach

As far as I can tell the A. is over she told me yesterday that it was over the day I confronted her and that it was a mistake and she was sorry it ever happened.I'm not sure if I believe her but have not seen any evidence of it still going on. We talked a little about the A and I told her that I do forgive her, that I love her and want to save our marriage.
We sat in our bedroom and chatted small talk.
We watched a show she normally watches .( she was suprised that I would like it and watch it with her.) She wanted to talk about the Divorce and custody situation. I looked up some custody sites to get a couple of ideas on how we can share joint custody . She is still serious about going thru with the divorce. She said that she doesn't think we can go back to where we were and that it is over. She told me this morning that if we don't finish talking about things that she is going to file and get a mediation. She said that this last week was hell and she just didn't want to live with me any more. I didn't say anything.
I haven't told her I love her when she leaves any more.. I tell her every now and then that I do love her and want to save our marriage. Is this wrong to do?

<small>[ October 06, 2003, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Lost&Confussed ]</small>

Well my wife went down and Filed for Divorce today. She said that she just wants out of the M. We are still both staying here at the moment. She wants me to move out but I told her No, not until the divorce and we've decided who gets what. She said she will leave then and take the children with her. I told her
that she can do that, but it is not in the best interest of our children to take them from the house because she is upset. I don't know what to do .. should I leave and let them stay? Wouldn't that be the correct thing?

L&C -

I'm very sorry to here that your W has filed for D. It's not a good thing, but the game is not over yet...

IMHO, you should not move out. And you should consult with a lawyer ASAP. Your W may not be able to legally take the kids out of the home without your permission. I'm not saying you should be beligerent with your W, just calm, consistent and firm. Especially when it comes to doing the right thing for your kids.

I'm afraid that she wants out quickly because the OM is waiting in the wings. Remember, the WS will lie, and lie some more until the truth is out in the open.

There is a FWS poster on the GQII forum that filed for D and then reconciled with her H 1 week before the D was going to be final. her screen name is Hope4future I think. Maybe you could ask her some specific questions about her feelings at this time. Stay steady with your Plan A, no R talks, don't try and educate your W, and be the best father you can be. Finally, continue to improve yourself...things like working out, get some new and different clothes, try a new hobby, etc...

You need time, so stall.

Gib

I am going to talk with a lawyer today - Problem is #1. Her family are the lawyers in this area. #2. I have no money for a lawyer. I found some paper work that she had on protective orders and restraining orders so I can only assume she plans on trying to get me out of the house. She told me today after I started this post that she is going to do everything in her power to get me out of the house and away from the kids.. why does this woman hate me so much? So now I don't know what I'm going to do .. she said to me befor she let that if I want to get joint custody that I need to move out otherwise she is going to fight me all the way in court.

L&C,
i'm so sorry that things have gotten to this point. call legal aid right away and explain your plight. see if they can or will help. explainthat your WW is trying to take your home and children and with out the financial resources you feel powerless to stop her.

i know for a fact the in westchester ny, the local da's office makes legal aid availible. (my wife tried to use them...so yousee, it's not as if i haven't been where you are right now!)

whatever happens you must have legal protection for yourself and your children. tel me, what's your relaionship with her family? dothey know what's been going on? are they happy about it? do they like you at all. how about where you work...do they have legal benefits for employees?

more important, weather she is lying or telling the truth about the state of the affair...you have to remain loving, kind and constant. she does not hate you! i know it seems that way but i'm sure that it's not really the case. what is the case is a deep dose of foggy brain. she just isn't thinking clearly.

look, you have to face the fact that dicorce may very well be in your future but you don't have to walk down that path willingly. if it were me, i would keep doing what you're doing.

DO NOT PANIC! DO NOT LET HER GET YOUR TEMPER UP DO NOT ARGUE WITH HER AND DO NOT TALK ABOUT SAVING THE MARRIAGE AND THE RELATIONSHIP UNLESS IT'S HER CHOICE OF SUBJECTS. JUST CONTINUE TO TRY TO BE HER FRIEND!

remember, as of right now you have no control over what she may do...NONE...you're only control is over YOU, how you act, respond and behave. so be sure that she constantly is observing a man and father who is in total control of himself, his emotions and his behavior.

stay cool and you may yet end up saving this relationship.

coach

Coach - thank you for responding-

She says she has told her family, she asked me not to talk to them .. When I did talk to her one sister that I thought there was an A going on her sister reasured me there wasn't. Then her sister called and told her that I had called her. Her family at this moment seems to be supporting her. Her other sister told her she would give her money for the D. and Lawyer. She also had an A. and then moved in with the Om. I always thought her family liked me but she says they didn't.. I don't know what the truth is. Like I said befor I do take blame in what is wrong with our marriage.. and I know she has told her family about alot of the things I did wrong as a husband..
I know she hasn't told her mother anything other than we are fighting. Her mother just had cancer surgery.. actually it was that day that I found OM numbers and asked WS about them. I don't know if I should go and talk with her mother or not.. Her Husband cheated on her so she probably wouldn't look kindly on it. Problem is if I do that .. I push my WS away more...
She has another sister that I could talk too that is extremely religious and probably would talk to WS on my behalf but .. Like I said WS would blow a gasket over it.
As far as going to D.A he is her cousin .. so I don't think it would help much.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> L&C

Ps: unfortuatley she did lure me into a big arqument yesterday. She is getting more physical with her arguments.. I had the D papers in my hand and she wanted them back so she could file against me instead of joint together.. I told her No we had already fiqured everything out and that we would go daown and file .. she grabbed at the papers I started walking away and she grabbed my shirt from behind and literally tore it off me.. I asked her if that had made her happy - she said she was the one that had bought the shirt. I went and changed then left the house. Then the one this morning over custody ( the part of if I don't move out )
I try not to argue but she gets down right nasty .. doestn't fight fair. She actually got an inch from my face to where our noses were touching and was yelling at me.. then spit in my face. ( I had told her when she was this close to my face I wanted to kiss her ) Quess it was the wrong thing to say ..I wiped it off and walked away .. she left for work.

<small>[ October 08, 2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Lost&Confussed ]</small>

Well she saw Om last night only for a few mins she says.. I found a letter she wrote him. She never talked to me that way.. wish she had. I asked her to move out she said No. I said If you want to be with him then go and stop hurting me and the children. Along with the letter she had a bunch of stuff about abuse and brain washing. The neighbors are trying to talk her into saying that I'm emotionally or physically abusing her.. I have never once raised my hand to my wife. I never yelled at her until the A. And I haven't yelled since that day. If we get into an arqument I talk calmly or walk away if I am getting upset.
I went to see about legal aid but there is none in my area that covers family situations .. only criminal. I can't afford an lawyer and none of them in the area will take a pro bonono case.
So what do you think I should do?

bump

L&C,
Like you said, my situation sounds so much like yours. Unfortunately, I let her convince me to leave about a month ago, and set up an apartment. I think that was my fatal mistake in all of this. I just let her manipulate me into leaving.
I sent the confrontation letter to the OM and all her friends on Friday. Boy was she mad. She was still mad yesterday, and said a lot of really mean things to me.
At this point, I'm really thinking I need to get back into the house, whatever it takes. I'll just let her leave, if she wants to. And I suppose that things can't get too much worse, because she is already convinced we should get a divorce.

I have a huge amount of fear about going back to the house, though. Can't stand the idea of all of that conflict.

OHH do I know about the conflict part...

I just wanted to thank everyone that has been offering advice. I do appreciate it..

My wife has pretty much told me it's over with us. That we are not good at being married together.. she will not break off contact with OM ..

So what do I do? I've done a fairly poor job at a plan A - I want to do better at it. I am trying, I think it might be to late though. She will not move out and neither will I.. so how can I do a plan B? Not that I think it's time for that yet other then her still talking with OM on phone and with letters. I have a session with a counsler today and a Doc appointment later.. I think it's time for some sleeping pills and maybe anti D's. I am still in fairly poor emotional state of mind. I still haven't been sleeping more then two hours or so at a time.
I still haven't found a job yet. That is one of her biggest problem with our marriage. I feel absoulutly worthless.
There are no jobs in the area. I've applied to anything that has come up.
well I'm going to go have a good day!

First of all, you are still placing way too much emphasis on the content of what she says. Secondly, you need to get in touch with Cerri ASAP. Call! It is no time to be frugal when your M is on the line.

L&C: I would say from her reactions that you are probably doing a very good Plan A. That may not seem reasonable to you, but affairs are addictions. When you do things that threaten an addict's "fix" then they get angry. She is angry. The objective of Plan A is to disrupt the affair. It seems you are succeeding.

Secondly, why not talk to her family? According to her, they already know, so what's for her to get mad about? See above.

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

L&C,

How are ya?, it been awhile since I've replied on your thread here. It seems that you are evolving into the same situation that I've got going on with my wife.

My wife is so beligerant, arrogant, throwing the whole thing in my face. She has told me that it is over and to just get over it and move on...because she already has. She has said everything from threatening me with legal action to telling me she hates me to saying I'll never have custody of my kids. Fog, fog, fog, and more fog. Plan A is really hard, if you don't feel like a door mat, your not doing it right. But ya know what? Plan B is harder! I'm about a week and a half into plan B and IT SUCKS!!! Even thru all of this she is still my best friend, and now I can have no contact with her. It feels like I've lost a major part of myself. But you know, if I ever paln to get her back this is what has to happen. I'm only telling you this because your case is nothing out of the ordinary. I have thought several times that all this MB stuff is fine and good, but my W is different. This isn't going to work with us. Usually about that time I read something, or somebody gives me some advice that makes me see that everything she has done and said (sometimes word for word) is right from the script. They (wyaward spouses) all do this. It's all fog talk. You can't react to it, do not attach any merit to what they say or do while the A is going on.

Keep the faith, you have to hold out hope here. Seeing your doc is a very good idea. It makes performing under the stress of plans A&B a lot easier. Sleeping pills are also very good. You need to talk to a couselor who specializes in MB concepts. Cerri or the Harley's. Call them and get help ASAP. As for the job hunt, have you tried Monster.com or Careerbuilder.com? They are pretty good. Also, talk to a staffing agency. They get payed by employers, not job seekers, so it won't cost you anything.

Take care and Good Luck!

Tak - I'm not being frugel, I just do not have the money. Believe me if I could I would.. my marriage means more to me then that.

As far as placing way too much emphasis, well she has pretty much been doing the things she says - She said she wanted a Divorce, she went and filed .. She says she hates me .. her actions and the way she looks at me makes me believe it. She threw out a couple of letters I had written her when this all first started. She normally would have put them up in her keep sake box..( she still has the letters he wrote her ) I believe my wife is serious about getting the divorce. I think she had an exit A. And is now moving on..

John - No I really haven't been .. She lures me in and fights dirty so I end up getting upset and LB'ing. I try not too but sometimes I get so nuts that she can't see how I really feel about her. That everything I say doesn't matter to her.. I went and had a talk with OM boss .. I don't know if it was a good thing to do or not. I used to work for him so it's not like we are strangers. He is a mininite so he is very religious, very family orientaited, I asked him to speak with OM. He said he would .. I know he did because my wife yelled at me about it. Didn't seem to matter they are still talking.

WMWB = I have been reading your post.. I'm glad you seem to be doing better..

She has stopped letting me meet her needs .. If I give her money to stick in the account she says that she is afraid to take it that I might read something into it.. If I do some thing around the house and she is here she will stop me and tell me she doesn't need my help that she will do it.

I went thru our keepsake box tonight reread letters and cards we had given eachother over the past years.. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Wow the love we used to have for each other hit me just hard .. I read the very first letter my WS had ever given me .. it was like the one she wrote OM.
Feeling pretty depressed at the moment .. Wish I could hold her and show her how much I need her.

L&C

I'm no expert, but you are in desperate need of plan B. Very soon I think. You may want to start a new thread to get Cerri's attention and ask her what you should do, especially if you can't afford counseling. You need plan B to do two things. One, it will insulate you from all this pain you are feeling. It sucks at first, trusst me, but it does get better after a while. Also, if she wants a divorce, give it to her...at least as realistic of a simulation as possible <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Cut her off emotionally, financially, no support, no conversation, no anything. Be a great dad to your kids, but nothing to her. Huge disclaimer...this is one hell of a lot easier said than done, just see my thread if you have any doubts. But I think it is the best strategy for adding a healthy dose of reality to her plans. At this point, what do you have to lose? Also, even though we all yelled at you to get your [censored] back in you house after you left, I think it may be time for you to move out again if she won't go. Confirm that with Cerri, she is the expert not me...that is for sure! Anyway, if you can find a friend or some family to stay with it may not be a bad idea. It'll get you away from the daily drama of your wifes anger and actions. In my case, I told her in no uncertain terms that I was not moving, if she wanted to that was fine. We were in plan A for about 3 wks., then she left. Hence plan B. I'd like to see you stay in your house with your kids, but this is obviously taking a toll on you. Plan B seems imminant (sp), and if she won't go you might have to.

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back ]</small>

L&C

Funny, this is the first time I have ever been on the Infidelity Site and in Just Found Out. And the first post I open is yours.

Reading your post was the Flashback of the last 3 1/2 years of my life.

I only have several pieces of advice for you:

1) You definitely need to find a lawyer. Even if you are out of work, are fearing that her family has control or are the lawyers in the area, Find A lawyer immediately. Even if it is Legal Aide.

2) Get in to some type of counseling or seek the services of a qualified Parent Child Psycholgist immediately.

3) Start a journal and document all attempts of her trying to provoke arguments, statements she makes in regards to you or the marriage, the times she is away, etc. Document anything and everything.

4) Figure out where you are within this relationship or lack of and create a plan for "you" or "you and your children". Focus on this plan. (Rather it be Plan A or B)

5) Do not make attempts to discredit her with her parents and family. It will only backfire on you. Let her set the stage of her own demise with her family. Of course they will be supportive of her, and by you instigating it will only strengthen this resolve.

6) Remember above all else..... This is not about you, it is her, her fog, and her desire.... and she will utilize every trick in the book to get her way. She will envoke arguments, she will get in you face, she will test your will.... the main purpose to get you to react physically so that she does have evidence to get a retraining order against you......

And, my recommendation... is to distance yourself from her as much as possible and as often as possible to difuse the situation.....

I went through the bowels of he!! for two years of this constant attack and continued pressure for divorce, the hate, the fear, and the pain.... if I had it to do again I would have left first and tried to work on my marriage from the outside. That is not to say your case is different but I see so many of the same things that I faced on a day to day basis. She continuously threatened that she would take me to the cleaners, and in my mind she has..... She has my children and I get 17% parenting..... She took half of the money, she took all the furnishings she wanted, and she moved out (after I refused too).

My Ex and I have been divorced for a year now... she has not changed and continues to manipulate as much as possible. She is still with OM. So it is going on two years. She is in total denial of any of her wrong doings.

I still have anger and I still have pain after all this time.... Most of it self-inflicted. All because at first I did not choose to believe, and could only sit in amazement that this was happening....

Dont sit on it like I did.... Find any means necessary for Legal and Psychological help before it is too late.....

If you have any questions or want to see some of the evidence of what I endured, look over on the EN and EN archives....

I know and feel your pain all to well my friend... to well......

Ok.... no need to start new thread and get into THAT whole controversy again!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I've just been very busy with work and family stuff the last couple of weeks and having a hard time staying on top of MB too.

Alrighty then.... you know... I have the same fuzzy feeling about your situation as I do when I read
DD's.... I was thinking about it this morning on my weekly trip with kid to the orthodontist, trying to figure out what it is that's driving that feeling.

I think with DD I pinned it down to not really knowing what it is she wants to do. I'm getting mixed messages. So that feels better. That leaves you.... and what is causing this "I don't have a clue where you're going" feeling. (Am I rambling yet?? LOL )

So could you answer these things for me briefly?

Are you back in your house?
Is your wife still there?
Is she still seeing the OM?
If she says she is not, have there been any accountability steps taken?
Has anyone filed?

Start with that, then let me de-fuzz my brain and we'll talk.

C