Hi Cerri,

I'll give you a brief run down on my situation and then the questions I have will follow:

H and I have been married for 1 year. 6 months into the M, I began to suspect something was "wrong." Sexually pulling away by my H was the primary thing. Things just seemed "off" in that area and I was very puzzled.

Reading my signiture, you can see how things have played out from D-day, on.

questions after reading some of your suggestions to other posters around their a's are:

1. You note that "conditions which lead to the affair and allowed it to continue must be addressed and eliminated."

My h still carries the cell phone to work which he had used repeatedly to make the phone sex calls and to set up the ONS, (IMPULSIVELY,) while out of the office checking on a project. It's fair then, to request he no longer carry a cell phone at all (get rid of it completely,) despite the "emergency needs" that could arise??? (he had a flat tire yesterday)

2. Exposing an affair......Harley's belief, "Put it on the evening news" This must mean in terms of getting the person to the place where they END the affair....In my H's case, he has ended the behavior.......My H plans to go to 12-step Sexaholics groups. He has told our MC and his doctor (when checked for VD) Are those disclosures good enough?

Do you have any "tips" for someone in my position????

Thanks Cerri.....Your time is very much appreciated.

Roberta

1. You note that "conditions which lead to the affair and allowed it to continue must be addressed and eliminated."

My h still carries the cell phone to work which he had used repeatedly to make the phone sex calls and to set up the ONS, (IMPULSIVELY,) while out of the office checking on a project. It's fair then, to request he no longer carry a cell phone at all (get rid of it completely,) despite the "emergency needs" that could arise??? (he had a flat tire yesterday)

Roberta,

I see nothing wrong with asking your H to give up the cell phone at least until he finishes his 12 step program. Somewhere down the line, when you both feel more comfortable about his ability to resist temptation that could change, but you'll want to make sure those cell phone bills come to house and that you get a chance to look at them. Sometimes, triggers can come in strange places, and if the cell phone is a trigger.....it's safest to remove it. Cell phones are convenient for emergencies....but they're a recent convenience and he won't be at huge risk without it.

2. Exposing an affair......Harley's belief, "Put it on the evening news" This must mean in terms of getting the person to the place where they END the affair....In my H's case, he has ended the behavior.......My H plans to go to 12-step Sexaholics groups. He has told our MC and his doctor (when checked for VD) Are those disclosures good enough?

I'm sure cerri will chime in here, but if the affair is truly over, and since we're talking about a sex addiction and ONS....I think the steps you are taking are fine (as long as he actually goes into the program). However, if your husband has a relapse....you may want to reconsider enlisting the help of friends or family who may be able to intervene and help. Exposure is meant to inject conflict into an ongoing affair....this kind of sitch is a little different.

Cerri has been really busy after her internet problems so don't think she's ignoring you....she's still catching up. I'm sure you'll hear from her but wanted to give you a little bump and offer my humble opinion. Good Luck.

Hey Roberta,

H and I have been married for 1 year.

So how did you meet, how long did you date and were either of you married at the time?

My h still carries the cell phone to work which he had used repeatedly to make the phone sex calls and to set up the ONS, (IMPULSIVELY,) while out of the office checking on a project. It's fair then, to request he no longer carry a cell phone at all (get rid of it completely,) despite the "emergency needs" that could arise??? (he had a flat tire yesterday)

Yeah, I think it is fair. And I think there are things you could do in between having a phone and not having a phone. The idea is that you set a boundary and see if it works. If not then you need to raise the bar.

So I'm wondering about things like you having online access to the account and checking incoming and outgoing calls daily. If he stays sober then he could keep the phone. If not, he'll have to walk the next time he gets a flat.

Another option is having a phone that only calls 911. I don't know if you can have a phone that only calls home or a certain set of specified numbers, but that would be something to check into as well.

In my H's case, he has ended the behavior.......My H plans to go to 12-step Sexaholics groups. He has told our MC and his doctor (when checked for VD) Are those disclosures good enough?

I would say they are good enough for now. But here's what I know about addicts... they promise anything in order to get you off their back. So if he is agreeing to go to an SAA group, then he needs to go... Now... not when he gets around to it.

Do you have any "tips" for someone in my position????

Yours is a tough road, that's for sure. I don't buy into a lot of the co-dependency stuff because it's counter productive to restoring a marriage and it's very independently oriented. My view (and Harley's) is that marriage is interdependent and that what one person does affects the other so there needs to be an interweaving of lives and information. Having said that I do agree that there is a fine line between setting boundaries, staying on top of what's going on, holding the other person accountable and obsessing.

Tell me about you and how you're doing. What's happened since you found out in terms of conditions for recovery? What have you read?

C

Hi star*fish,

Thank you for your response to my post. I'm going to take what you have said into account.

Cerri,

Here are answers to your questions:

We met through a dating service, emailed and chatted for two months....decided to meet in person.....hit it off....dated regularly thereafter....married 11 months after meeting. My h was single for 2 years. I was just shy of my divorce being final when I met him. I was m previously for 20 years.

Here's an issue: He works with a computer all day long....I have no access to anything at work. It's all networked. Phones at work are checked for calls now. AND, due to the huge problem with porn viewing at work (no surprise there!) they have filtered alot of things. Don't even know if it's possible to have access to anything of his at work. At home, our computer has a password. My password, which he doesn't know.

Agreed about the group attendance! Our MC and I are both holding him to that.

Liked the idea of the 911 phone. Will consider it if it's needed. Both, his cell bill and our home phone bill are emailed to me each month for me to view online. He can't hid them!

I feel the same way you do about the co-dependency thing.

I tried an IC for 3 sessions...in those sessions she said the following: "You need to look at your responsibility in this" "How about you tell your H you are Not going on that cruise with him in November!" "Are you still having sex with him?? YES....."Why!!??" Very negative, very bossy, and felt beat up after the third session. Not going back. I was feeling worse instead of better. Had to defend myself often. Wanted me to go to meetings for co-dependents....I've read some of it and can't quite buy into it.

My reading is several books by Patrick Carnes.

We are in MC and that is going extremely well. Our MC is doing a very nice job of holding my h accountable, supporting me, and focusing on rebuilding our M and the intimacy between us.

Currently the committment from my h (action-wise) has been: Weekly MC, voluntary showing of all phone bills, reading about sexual addiction and initiating the processing of what he reads with me and the MC, writing his life story (me too!) and processing it in session. Checking in with me daily regarding his vunerability level around acting out. THAT especially, has recently been very helpful. I'm learning where he is at, every day on an emotional level. He told me this was a very hard step for him to take....but he's doing it. (After all, a SA believes they can only rely on themselves) He's breaking through that. And, finally, he has checked for SA meetings to attend.

Tonight he told me he was struggling terribly today...why? All the pop-ups on his computer and the stress level. Talked about getting that eliminated from his computer. Apologized to me out of the blue for "being in denial and that now he can see the problem clearly"

He told me tonight that he is considering a transfer to another department that places him out in the field, instead of in the office. There are serious problems in his department with SA. And the stress level there is getting to him now that he is not acting out. Also said he feels very depressed recently.

Im doing as well as can be expected.....in the recovery forum, some people have noted that I am doing extremely well for so early in recovery. I think the steps my H is taking, support from MBers, my reading, his honesty coming to the surface, along with the skill of our Mc, is really helping me have a certain level of security in our recovery.

That sums things up a little ..... Thanks for your support and help with this Cerri <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Roberta

Hi Roberta,

It really sounds to me that you are doing all the right things. And that you have a MC who has her head on straight.

What happens if he works in the field more? I see that there would be less likelihood of computer use but I would wonder about other accountability.

Are you keeping tabs on time, money and whereabouts? I know to the uninitiated that sounds like a lot of work and hassle, but really we have a pretty good system and it's just part of life.

Have you had any luck finding an SA group? I have a link to a referral for groups across the country if you'd like it.

I'm pretty impressed with the things he's said and done so far. It sounds to me like there is real first and second order change in the works.

I love Carnes' work, don't you? My only issue with it is that it is sooo neutral. So the position is that porn is ok if you don't have a compulsive problem with it, same with cybersex. There is no discussion about the farther reaching ripples of harm. I understand why that is the case, but it still bothers me.

Have you read the newer book about cybersex addiction? I'm really enjoying it.

C

Cerri, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As you can imagine, your confirmation around our progress so far, feels pretty good.

You bring up a good point about triggers in the field. So far I do know that the stress level he is experiencing will be decreased. That is one benefit. But we have more to discuss and I will do that with him. He's been so open lately that I feel like I will get the truth, not minimizations as in the past. That is reassuring!

I'm going to give thought to the time, money, whereabouts issue. Right now, he has a great deal of freedom at work. He can leave the office when he wants....And there are times when he must travel to the sites he has designed to assure they are being carried out as planned.

Not exactly sure how to deal with this issue. I need to look at it.

We have a SA group 15 minutes from our home.

Yes, Yes, Yes, I have a problem with porn being "ok" unless it's compulsive. It undermines intimacy in a M for one. Then there are all the political, gender, economic, power, control, and relationship issues attached to this issue. DON'T GET ME STARTED! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It is the norm for our society, as well as for others. It is an uphill climb in terms of reversing that. And men's attitudes in general, are clearly pro-porn. That is not true of ALL men of course.

Reminds me of something my H shared months ago. He told me a co-worker was upset because he wasn't "getting any" from his w, that his w didn't "want him" anymore. I simply said, "well with all the porn he is viewing, he is assuring that he won't get any" grrrrrrr. My H's reply, "I hadn't thought about it that way before"

Carnes does not tend to focus beyond the individual and I think that serves it's purpose. He does great service to those struggling with the addiction. I am quite impressed with his research and well thought out plan for recovery.

I haven't read Carne's new book about cybersex addiction....although I plan to. This is a very, very serious problem....as is the fact that starting A's has become so easy and readily available to people. What huge implications for our society and our relationships. These problems ought to keep you in business for a very long time Cerri <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

By the way, I am a Marriage and Family Therapist Intern. I'm in the learning phase and MB'ers is the place to learn about building and strengthening solid M's.

Cerri, thank you for your imput. It has been a tremendous help to me.

Roberta

Hi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm going to give thought to the time, money, whereabouts issue. Right now, he has a great deal of freedom at work. He can leave the office when he wants....And there are times when he must travel to the sites he has designed to assure they are being carried out as planned.

Here's what we do and what I reccomend for all married couples anyway. Accountability should be there BEFORE there's a problem and then there might not be one.... now there's a novel concept! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

If we plan to be away from our desks we let the other one know where we are, who we're with, what we're doing and how we can be reached. And if it's something out of the ordinary we POJA it first. My H even lets me know when he will be in meetings at work, and is always excellent about answering a page immediately. That takes care of time and whereabouts. And I suggest checking up on each other occassionally to make sure each is where they say they are.

Money is not an issue. We both have access to all account info and neither of us has cash that can easily be spent or hidden for some non POJA purpose. Harley suggests that couples have a set amount that they can spend each week or month on little things without a bunch of questions and negotiations. My feeling is that when there is an addiction that doesn't work too well. It's easy to save a couple of weeks worth and then do something destructive.

We have a SA group 15 minutes from our home.

And he is going when? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Yes, Yes, Yes, I have a problem with porn being "ok" unless it's compulsive. It undermines intimacy in a M for one. Then there are all the political, gender, economic, power, control, and relationship issues attached to this issue. DON'T GET ME STARTED! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LOL.... you sound just like me!!!

Reminds me of something my H shared months ago. He told me a co-worker was upset because he wasn't "getting any" from his w, that his w didn't "want him" anymore. I simply said, "well with all the porn he is viewing, he is assuring that he won't get any" grrrrrrr. My H's reply, "I hadn't thought about it that way before"

Because we process sexuality differently men are not nearly as offended at the idea of women looking at other men. So they have a difficult time seeing the connection. It was funny, the other week I was listening to Bill and Joyce on the radio and he made a similar comment and then added that he wouldn't care if she looked at other men. OMG!! She sounded horrified at the thought... first that he wouldn't care and second that she might do it! It was soooo funny. Finally she says, "Well, I'm not going to!" LOL

Carnes does not tend to focus beyond the individual and I think that serves it's purpose. He does great service to those struggling with the addiction. I am quite impressed with his research and well thought out plan for recovery.

I agree to a point. But I think part of recovery is recognizing that those behaviors cause real harm to real people. I saw a site once... OMG, Roberta, it made me ill. Not hard core and not kids, but it was so not slick and made up, and very much an exploited young girl being coerced to pleasure this man. ugh.... I was literally ill for days. We need to get the message out there that the people in these images are real people and that they are being harmed in many ways.

These problems ought to keep you in business for a very long time Cerri <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I have fantasies of doing some fun and easy coaching... like "How to find your spiritual bliss," LOL.... not my path this time around I guess... <sigh>

By the way, I am a Marriage and Family Therapist Intern. I'm in the learning phase and MB'ers is the place to learn about building and strengthening solid M's.

Very cool!!!! Ever considered taking the MB training?

Cerri, thank you for your imput. It has been a tremendous help to me.

Very welcome, I enjoy the conversation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

C

Hi again, Cerri <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, would you believe, My h called about the SA meeting times and days.....decided to go on Friday night....I offered my moral support by attending the informational meeting prior to the official meeting with him, he accepted that appreciatively, we show up, and there is not meeting. Not only did the website have it wrong, so did the number my H called....grrrrrrrr.

Did pick up the 12-step meeting schedule, however, when we were there. Plans to go Tuesday evening.

Yes, I have wanted to attend the MB training. It needs to be closer to home, for me to attend. I live in California. The next one is in Florida. It's a little disappointing as I embrace the concepts and interweave them into my work already. I'm patiently awaiting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My h's eyes seem to be wide open to what is all around him these days....meaning, he is now pointing out the cultural aspects of SA. Also the issues around masculinity and male pressure to conform. That's a big one!!! He said it was male thinking that if you weren't chasing women, you were thought to be gay. He has told me some unbelievable stories about his work place. Are you ready?????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

1. One woman, nicknamed "legs" seduced him every day for a month until she finally got him into bed. He notes he did not want her, yet the guys in the department where saying, "go with her" He considers her behavior to be sexual harassment. She went all over the department conquesting and then moving on.

2. Men use to go to strip clubs daily during lunch breaks.

3. During a fire drill a female coworker propositioned him and started unbuttoning his shirt. He declined.

4. His ex-wife, in same company, was caught giving her boss a blowjob last year.

5. Pictures sent around the department of nude coworkers.

6. The day my H took me to work and introduced me to everyone, he got this comment from a coworker..."You ought to bring her around more often....She's pretty and I could see through her dress"

You get the picture! Pretty sick. Males and Females sound equally bad to me.

This is the uphill battle.....and I think my h will win it. I'm beginning to find appreciation for him recently. He is turning it around.

Roberta

<small>[ September 22, 2003, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: Roberta61 ]</small>

Hola!

Not only did the website have it wrong, so did the number my H called....grrrrrrrr.

Good grief... that is sooo annoying. Will he tell the leader when he goes? Something like that could prevent someone else from ever coming back and getting help. You only get one shot with some folks.

Did pick up the 12-step meeting schedule, however, when we were there. Plans to go Tuesday evening.

Good.

Yes, I have wanted to attend the MB training. It needs to be closer to home, for me to attend. I live in California. The next one is in Florida.

So can you now do the training on a regular couples' weekend? When I did it, it was a special class geared toward professionals. If you really want to do it email me and let's see if there's a way I can help you.


Are you ready?????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />


1. One woman, nicknamed "legs" seduced him every day for a month until she finally got him into bed. He notes he did not want her, yet the guys in the department where saying, "go with her" He considers her behavior to be sexual harassment. She went all over the department conquesting and then moving on.

So why not file a suit? Of course, she could counter file I guess.

2. Men use to go to strip clubs daily during lunch breaks.

Do they still???

3. During a fire drill a female coworker propositioned him and started unbuttoning his shirt. He declined.

Ok, where on earth does he work?

4. His ex-wife, in same company, was caught giving her boss a blowjob last year.

Ex wife? Same company? What happened that they split? Unless the bj scenario tells it all... LOL

5. Pictures sent around the department of nude coworkers.

I don't even have words.... LOL... I can't even begin to imagine. The whole place oughta be up before some judge.

6. The day my H took me to work and introduced me to everyone, he got this comment from a coworker..."You ought to bring her around more often....She's pretty and I could see through her dress"

Uhhhh..... is that a compliment or not? It's like going to the Biker chili feed.... I've never understood why "Nice t*ts," is supposed to be complimentary.

You get the picture! Pretty sick. Males and Females sound equally bad to me.

Ok, so having some twisted coaching need to rock the boat, I have to ask.... how can he continue to work in this place and stay sober? Isn't that a huge piece of the conditions that led to the behaviors? Wouldn't the need to set up boundaries and make first order changes suggest that he needs to be in a much healthier (not to mention less legally risky) environment? I would be very uneasy with him continuing to work in this place.

I'm beginning to find appreciation for him recently. He is turning it around.

I have always had incredible respect for addicts of all sorts that do what it requires to walk the recovery path. It's amazing.

C

Cerri,

Yes, he has come to me and said he is considering a transfer out of that department completely. It seems now that his eyes are open, he's not been able to shut them to what's around him...........like opening a door, that once open, can't be closed. That's a good thing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

He had a really bad week last week......in dealing with the desire to make those calls. We talked....he seems ok for now anyway. We see our MC tonight and will talk about that I"m sure.

I'll email your regarding the training (YES, if there's a way, I want to do it,) and where he works. It's a big corp. Lawsuits fly around there often.

Roberta

You have my address right? help@saveyourmarriagecentral.com